7 Speed Wheel?

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I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.

Looking to upgrade my wheels.

I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
needs to change to a cassette. Right?


So, when looking at wheels, how can I tell if a given wheel is going to
be compatible. (I understand the frame may need to be stretched a bit.
That should be OK as it's a fairly old steel frame.)


Also, what about the spacing on the front wheel? Any modifications
required there?



LBS is recommending a set of Easton wheels for about $280, but I don't
have any other details. (That was just a very brief discussion)



Thanks for any suggestions.


-Bianchi Bob

"Hell And High Water" <bob.remove.helland@att.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.22cb1242a344fe479896f6@news.giganews.com...
>I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
> Looking to upgrade my wheels.
> I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
> needs to change to a cassette. Right?

If you haven't been breaking axles why change? Aside from the fact that the
stuff you have wears very slowly, the newer stuff hasn't gained a whole lot
other than more speeds. Yes, you seldom get a broken axle on a cassette
wheel, but the more modern, narrower cogs wear out a lot faster. And you
need to get chains that wear faster and you have to change the cranks
because the 7-speed spacing between the chain rings is wide enough for your
9 or 10 speed chain to fit between them and stick.

All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long flat
rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
interchange them.

> So, when looking at wheels, how can I tell if a given wheel is going to
> be compatible. (I understand the frame may need to be stretched a bit.
> That should be OK as it's a fairly old steel frame.)

5-speed spacing was 120 mm 6 and 7-speed spacing in the rear is 126 mm. 8
and up speed spacing is 130 mm on road bikes and 135 mm on mountain bikes.

> Also, what about the spacing on the front wheel? Any modifications
> required there?

Front wheels are the same as from the early days - 120 mm.

> LBS is recommending a set of Easton wheels for about $280, but I don't
> have any other details. (That was just a very brief discussion)

I suppose that means that your old set of wheels is worn out. It does
happen. However, one of the problems with "modern" wheels is that they have
a low spoke count. That ain't so hot. Aside from the fact that the rims need
to be heavier in order to support the lower spoke count, you can do things
that used to be hard to impossible - for instance I stuck my foot in between
the front spokes on a low spoke count wheel a month ago at 30 mph down a
steep hill. Long story but not a very nice one. If it was the old days I'd
have 36 spokes and my foot couldn't have gotten in there.

The upshot of this is that for that amount of money you can have another
7-speed set built. Remember that there are still plenty of good
new/old-stock hubs around for 7speed stuff and there are still a lot of new
or almost new freewheels around. Of course you need to buy high quality
stuff in order to prevent broken axles whereas you can use cheap junk for
cassette hubs since the bearings are outboard the cassette.

On Jun 24, 3:17 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
wrote:
> I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
>
> Looking to upgrade my wheels.
>
> I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel.  That
> needs to change to a cassette.  Right?

What's wrong with what ya got? If you simply want lighter and more
aero--building some custom wheels with traditional freewheel 7spd hubs
and light parts to fit your bike would be the way to go instead of
making your bike fit the pre-built components, IMHO.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:38:41 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

> "Hell And High Water" <bob.remove.helland@att.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22cb1242a344fe479896f6@news.giganews.com...
>>I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
>> Looking to upgrade my wheels.
>> I believe the first thing I need to look at is the freewheel. That
>> needs to change to a cassette. Right?
>
> If you haven't been breaking axles why change? Aside from the fact that the
> stuff you have wears very slowly, the newer stuff hasn't gained a whole lot
> other than more speeds. Yes, you seldom get a broken axle on a cassette
> wheel, but the more modern, narrower cogs wear out a lot faster. And you
> need to get chains that wear faster and you have to change the cranks
> because the 7-speed spacing between the chain rings is wide enough for your
> 9 or 10 speed chain to fit between them and stick.
>
> All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
> freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long flat
> rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
> interchange them.

Nonsense.

Get a 39-52 and a 12-28 and you have enough range to do just about
anything; and if you really need it you can get 11-34 (and bigger in front,
too).

"_" <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com> wrote in message
news:tm7ni9cchv2m.1r9nkoqcsshp4$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:38:41 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> All in all a good 7-speed only has one problem - you have to change the
>> freewheel for the type of ride you do. If you're someone that does long
>> flat
>> rides and hilly rides you need at least two freewheels and the tools to
>> interchange them.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> Get a 39-52 and a 12-28 and you have enough range to do just about
> anything; and if you really need it you can get 11-34 (and bigger in
> front,
> too).

Not everyone wants to have a wide ratio gear system. While I'd be perfectly
comfortable with your choice many wouldn't.

In article <F86dnQtofuDMxvzVnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
cyclintom@yahoo. says...


> If you haven't been breaking axles why change?


The LBS mentioned several things:


New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels. Spin easier/etc.

On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
that's a word.)


My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
more problematic.




I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.

Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.

Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC. Seems to work in
just about all situations. (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)


Thanks for the info and thoughts!


-Bob

>

On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
wrote:
> In article <F86dnQtofuDMxvzVnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@earthlink.com>,
> cyclintom@yahoo. says...
>
> > If you haven't been breaking axles why change?
>
> The LBS mentioned several things:
>
> New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
> old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.

Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
usually lighter than traditional looking.

 >Spin easier/etc.

More BS.
>
> On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed.  Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
> that's a word.)

Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.

Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

>
> My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
> not fixable.  He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
> more problematic.

Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

> I have (IIRC) Araya rims?  Avaya?  somesuch.

Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
you say they're true enough....

>
> Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
> derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.
>
> Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC.  Seems to work in
> just about all situations.   (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)
>
> Thanks for the info and thoughts!
>
> -Bob
>
>

I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

landotter wrote:
> On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
> wrote:
>> In article <F86dnQtofuDMxvzVnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@earthlink.com>,
>> cyclintom@yahoo. says...
>>
>>> If you haven't been breaking axles why change?
>> The LBS mentioned several things:
>>
>> New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
>> old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.
>
> Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
> will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
> smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
> usually lighter than traditional looking.
>
> >Spin easier/etc.
>
> More BS.
>> On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
>> that's a word.)
>
> Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
> and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
> enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.
>
> Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
> front and rear should run ya a ten spot.
>
>> My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
>> not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
>> more problematic.
>
> Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
> make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.
>
>> I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.
>
> Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
> wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
> you say they're true enough....
>
>> Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
>> derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.
>>
>> Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC. Seems to work in
>> just about all situations. (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault...)
>>
>> Thanks for the info and thoughts!
>>
>> -Bob
>>
>>
>
> I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
> they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
> axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
> cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

OP has Araya steel rims, so changing to even a basic aluminum wheel will
have pretty good value for him. Better braking in front would be the
most significant aspect I think. If they are 27-inch, about $40~$50 per.
Moving the present freewheel to a new wheel makes more sense usually
than going cassette since he has not had axle trouble to here.

Shop's prep on a basic wheel can vary from 'conscientious' to 'just tear
off the label' and that matters too.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0bb7f4e4-f43f-48c7-a4f9-908c49470905@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
wrote:
> > In article <F86dnQtofuDMxvzVnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@earthlink.com>,
> > cyclintom@yahoo. says...
> >
> > > If you haven't been breaking axles why change?
> >
> > The LBS mentioned several things:
> >
> > New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
> > old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.
>
> Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
> will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
> smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
> usually lighter than traditional looking.

Wait a minute - chances are that his shop is being up front with him. He
just has some old junky or very worn wheels and they would cause any shop to
say the same thing. And if that shop doesn't have anyone that builds wheels
it is much easier for them to buy them. The wheels they're recommending
aren't junk you know. And the price isn't outrageous.

> >Spin easier/etc.
>
> More BS.

Well, the new wheels would definitely spin better than old wheels with bad
bearings to begin with. I don't know how long you've been riding but I
remember when you bought hand made wheels and the difference between them
and "stock" wheels could not only be felt but heard.

> > On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed. Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
> > that's a word.)
>
> Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings.

They are referred to as sealed bearings though they usually only have a seal
on the outside.

> Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
> front and rear should run ya a ten spot.

Or less. And yes, if you know what to do you can make an old set of wheels
last a long time. But what if his old wheels are some of those $50/set
specials like used to hang in bike shops back in the 80's?

> > My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
> > not fixable. He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get more and
> > more problematic.
>
> Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
> make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.

While I agree that he probably would rather sell a new set than try to fix
and old set there's a good possibility that there's more than enough reason
to put new wheels in.

> > I have (IIRC) Araya rims? Avaya? somesuch.
>
> Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
> wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
> you say they're true enough.

Araya rims were made in all sorts of quality but the aftermarket rims were
usually higher quality.

> I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
> they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
> axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
> cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.

Look, this guy obviously can't judge a good wheel from a bad. My suspicion
is that his bike shop is just being up front with him. Though I think it
would be nice to get a second opinion, nevertheless a good set of wheels is
paramount to having a good ride.

On Jun 24, 5:45 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 4:26 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
> > wrote:
> >> In article <F86dnQtofuDMxvzVnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@earthlink.com>,
> >> cyclintom@yahoo. says...
>
> >>> If you haven't been breaking axles why change?
> >> The LBS mentioned several things:
>
> >> New wheels would be quite a bit lighter than my current
> >> old/bombproof/steel/heavy wheels.
>
> > Freewheel wheels built with traditional 32H spokes and quality hubs
> > will often be lighter than boutique wheels. So your LBS is blowing
> > smoke. Perhaps lighter than your current set, but fancy looking isn't
> > usually  lighter than traditional looking.
>
> >  >Spin easier/etc.
>
> > More BS.
> >> On newer wheels, the bearings are sealed.  Mine are a bit 'grindy' (if
> >> that's a word.)
>
> > Even more BS. There's no such thing as sealed bearings. Some are cup
> > and cone and if packed with enough grease are weather resistant
> > enough, others are cartridge and you replace the cart when worn.
>
> > Easy enough to repack a hub. Cone wrench, grease, and bearings for
> > front and rear should run ya a ten spot.
>
> >> My rims are pretty true, but the last little bit of wobble is probably
> >> not fixable.  He's saying that slowly, over time, they just get moreand
> >> more problematic.
>
> > Are the rims truly whacked and not truable or is this guy trying to
> > make a sale? Get a 2nd opinion.
>
> >> I have (IIRC) Araya rims?  Avaya?  somesuch.
>
> > Vary wildly in quality. They certainly made a ton of cheesy single
> > wall OEM rims so I wouldn't doubt if they were a PITA to get true. But
> > you say they're true enough....
>
> >> Not sure on the hubs, but I had SunTour downtube shifters and
> >> derailleurs, which I've replaced with Shimano Sora Brifters/etc.
>
> >> Currently, I have a brand new freewheel, 14-28, IIRC.  Seems to workin
> >> just about all situations.   (If it doesn't, it's probably my fault....)
>
> >> Thanks for the info and thoughts!
>
> >> -Bob
>
> > I'd repack the hubs and ride and not worry about the wheels. If
> > they're not wobbling, you're not breaking spokes, and not breaking
> > axles--you're not going to get some crazy palpable advantage by
> > cramming some "modern" wheels into that frame.
>
> OP has Araya steel rims, so changing to even a basic aluminum wheel will
> have pretty good value for him. Better braking in front would be the
> most significant aspect I think. If they are 27-inch, about $40~$50 per.
> Moving the present freewheel to a new wheel makes more sense usually
> than going cassette since he has not had axle trouble to here.
>
> Shop's prep on a basic wheel can vary from 'conscientious' to 'just tear
> off the label' and that matters too.

I assumed that they were mistakenly called steel until I read more
carefully. Araya did make steel rims--I was thinking of the sad single
wall aluminum road rims, of which I've got a few examples. Indeed--a
mass market freewheel wheel with a bit of attention in the truing
stand should be perfectly serviceable for $50.

However, for the same price as as the fancy wheels the LBS suggested,
someone from the group might be able to build a more appropriate
set...

"Hell And High Water" <bob.remove.helland@att.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.22cb1242a344fe479896f6@news.giganews.com...
>I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
>
>
> -Bianchi Bob
>

Bob: what is specifically wrong with your old wheels? First order of
business is to check the rims. If a magnet sticks to them, then they are
steel, and should be shipped immediately to the landfill. Steel rims are
such an obvious indicator of low quality, that no further evaluation is
required. They are heavy, weak, and scary dangerous in the rain.

Second, if you already have decent alloy rims, then have the shop check (and
show you) if you have excessive brake pad wear on the rims, or the rims have
flat spots from impacts. If this test is passed, then check for:
- hub bearings rough?
- freewheel cogs worn out?
- need different gearing (better climbing gears)?
All of the above can be fixed - a lot easier and cheaper than getting new
wheels. If you get new wheels, there is a good chance you will have to bend
your frame to get the new rear wheel in the stays. And you may have to
change out your shifters if you are going to a different number of speeds
than what you already have (as in 8 or 9 speeds.)

BTW: if you must get new wheels, stick with hubs from Shimano. Shimano
cassette hubs are excellent. Cartridge bearings, usually misrepresented as
'sealed bearings' are used in hubs by small-fry manufacturers because they
lack the tooling, manufacturing size or necessary patents to use a proper
hub design and components. Otherwise, 2 years from now, you're be hunting
through every bike shop in town for some obscure cartridge bearing, or an
impossible to find non-Shimano replacement freehub body.

Dave Mayer wrote:
> "Hell And High Water" <bob.remove.helland@att.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22cb1242a344fe479896f6@news.giganews.com...
>> I currently have a Shimano 7-Speed FREEWHEEL.
>>
>>
>> -Bianchi Bob
>>
>
> Bob: what is specifically wrong with your old wheels? First order of
> business is to check the rims. If a magnet sticks to them, then they are
> steel, and should be shipped immediately to the landfill. Steel rims are
> such an obvious indicator of low quality, that no further evaluation is
> required. They are heavy, weak, and scary dangerous in the rain.
>
> Second, if you already have decent alloy rims, then have the shop check (and
> show you) if you have excessive brake pad wear on the rims, or the rims have
> flat spots from impacts. If this test is passed, then check for:
> - hub bearings rough?
> - freewheel cogs worn out?
> - need different gearing (better climbing gears)?
> All of the above can be fixed - a lot easier and cheaper than getting new
> wheels. If you get new wheels, there is a good chance you will have to bend
> your frame to get the new rear wheel in the stays. And you may have to
> change out your shifters if you are going to a different number of speeds
> than what you already have (as in 8 or 9 speeds.)
>
> BTW: if you must get new wheels, stick with hubs from Shimano. Shimano
> cassette hubs are excellent.

true. except in heavy rain. i've found their road hubs to be problematic.


> Cartridge bearings, usually misrepresented as
> 'sealed bearings'

some are indeed sealed. mavic. phil. but many, as you suggest, are not.


> are used in hubs by small-fry manufacturers because they
> lack the tooling,

untrue. cartridge bearings are a great way to get a quality result.
the usual bleating about needing bearings that support lateral load is
underinformed. the lateral loading on the typical deep groove bearing
cartridge as exerted by a bike wheel is well within tolerance.


> manufacturing size or necessary patents to use a proper
> hub design and components.

untrue. ever used a cheapo suzue hub with it's "proper hub design and
components"? i'll take a cartridge bearing over that crap any day.


> Otherwise, 2 years from now, you're be hunting
> through every bike shop in town for some obscure cartridge bearing,

untrue. i've never yet seen a cartridge bearing on a bike hub that's
not a standard series bearing available at any bearing supplier.


> or an
> impossible to find non-Shimano replacement freehub body.

unless it's stupid aluminum like chris king, why would you replace it?
if the bearings are shot, either replace them, or replace the hub! on
nashbar right now:

$75 centaur
$65 ultegra
$60 105.

not exactly crippling extortion.

Shat's wrong with seven speeds? I've had 7's on my tourer for over a
decaede, and I'll bet I have a wider, more evenly spaced range with more
different ratios than most people here. Even with out the granny ring.

It's not what you got, it's how you use it.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:22:42 -0400, dedendaddy4spammers@webtv.net
(It's Chris) wrote:

>Shat's wrong with seven speeds? I've had 7's on my tourer for over a
>decaede, and I'll bet I have a wider, more evenly spaced range with more
>different ratios than most people here. Even with out the granny ring.
>It's not what you got, it's how you use it.

I'd agree. My only issue with a 7 speed cluster is that I have to keep
it fairly close and low (13-24) to have a smooth progression in the
gears. But, even with a 42/52 that handles most casual rides. For more
hills, it's nice to drop to a 40, or 38 or triple with a 36 front.
Unless you're riding serious hills that should do it for most folks.

To the OP: I would be inclined to buy some vintage wheels that meet
your needs. There are plenty of them out there on Ebay. And $280 just
for wheels? You'd need to have an upscale bike for that kind of cash
outlay and I can't imagine a bike previously with steel wheels meeting
the mark. You'd end up with a glamorous set of wheels on a primitive
bike.

Not to mention, newer wheels will still have to be a little dated as
frame widths (rear) have changed - or you need to start pulling the
frame. Lets add in that your derailleur is probably not capable of
handling more that the 7 speed.

If your bike is old enough and low enough on the scale to have steel
wheels, I'd consider just buying a higher quality used bike. You'll
upgrade everything at once and have a much nicer ride over all.

Perhaps if you detailed the bike make, model, year, and equipment
folks could give you more specific recommendations.