Waiting in traffic lines.

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When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

laters,

Marz

"Marz" <marzjennings@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4-a622-8d8645c9918f@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

It depends. Sometimes I will find my way through gridlocked traffic slowly
(ie on multilane approaches to roundabouts), or overtake on the right (being
in the UK where people drive on the left), depending on the traffic
conditions. Sometimes I'll wait with the traffic if it's a junction where
people tend to force their way into gaps.

"Marz" <marzjennings@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4-a622-8d8645c9918f@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> laters,
>
> Marz

9/10 I will ride to the head of the queue/line or past slow moving vehicles.
Sometimes if there is a bus or lorry in front and there is a chance the
lights will change before I can get past then it's not worth the risk.
Keeping in the queue just negates the advantage of being on a bike.


--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Marz <marzjennings@gmail.com> wrote:

> For me, one of the reasons I did ride to work is to avoid getting
> stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do other folks wait in
> line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It depends upon the junction,
traffic conditions, situation and my mood.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Marz wrote:
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> laters,
>
> Marz

If the cars are all waiting on a straight section of road, I pass them.
Gridlock is their problem, not mine.

If I am going to make a right turn, I will still ride past, but be VERY
cautious at the turn. In the US (that is, driving on the right side of
the road) most drivers don't bother to look to their right before
turning--they are only looking straight or left. Getting turned on is a
real possibility, and the few times I've come closest to being run over,
this was the scenario (a car turning right without looking right first,
or using their turn signal).

If I am gong to make a left turn, I will pull up in the right side of
the left-turn lane, right behind the first car, to wait. The second car
is paying attention to what's in front of them, and (I think) is more
likely to notice me.
-----
Splitting lanes makes the most sense when making a left-hand turn at a
multi-lane stoplight, yet 1) it's illegal in the state I live in, and 2)
most drivers seem to be pretty surprised at a bicycle riding through
several lanes of traffic (even if the traffic isn't actually /moving/ at
the moment).
~

GoogleUser Marz wrote:
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

Really depends upon the circumstances. If I approach a red light, and
just before I get there, a motorists cuts in front and blocks me, then I
will return the favour.
If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting before I
get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
phase if I wait, then I filter.
Most congestion around here is caused by the amount of single occupier
cars, so I should pass as I am taking up less room (and subsidising
their motoring costs).

On Apr 16, 12:27 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
> Marz wrote:
> > When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> > really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> > very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> > with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> > work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> > other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> > laters,
>
> > Marz
>
> If the cars are all waiting on a straight section of road, I pass them.
> Gridlock is their problem, not mine.
>
> If I am going to make a right turn, I will still ride past, but be VERY
> cautious at the turn. In the US (that is, driving on the right side of
> the road) most drivers don't bother to look to their right before
> turning--they are only looking straight or left. Getting turned on is a
> real possibility, and the few times I've come closest to being run over,
> this was the scenario (a car turning right without looking right first,
> or using their turn signal).
>
> If I am gong to make a left turn, I will pull up in the right side of
> the left-turn lane, right behind the first car, to wait. The second car
> is paying attention to what's in front of them, and (I think) is more
> likely to notice me.
> -----
> Splitting lanes makes the most sense when making a left-hand turn at a
> multi-lane stoplight, yet 1) it's illegal in the state I live in, and 2)
> most drivers seem to be pretty surprised at a bicycle riding through
> several lanes of traffic (even if the traffic isn't actually /moving/ at
> the moment).
> ~

When I do ride through stationary traffic, up the middle of two lanes,
I have to be 100 times more cautious here in Houston as I used to be
in London. I guess London drivers are used to seeing cyclists and
motorcyclists traveling through gridlock. Whereas folks here seem to
be constantly amazed just to see a cyclist on the road. I don't even
know if what I'm doing illegal here in Texas.

And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
right before going right, and I usually make sure I leave enough room
for folks to continue to turn right. And when the lights change, make
sure that the next guy turning right is aware that I'm going straight
on.

I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.

"Simon Mason" <simonmason@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NpidnRUervPoq5vVnZ2dnUVZ8saonZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Marz" <marzjennings@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4-a622-8d8645c9918f@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
>> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
>> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
>> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
>> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
>> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>>
>> laters,
>>
>> Marz
>
> 9/10 I will ride to the head of the queue/line or past slow moving
> vehicles. Sometimes if there is a bus or lorry in front and there is a
> chance the lights will change before I can get past then it's not worth
> the risk. Keeping in the queue just negates the advantage of being on a
> bike.
>

I often wonder what to do in Central London where I can't pass on the left
because it is too dangerous, can't pass on the right because I would be in
the path of oncoming traffic, can't filter between lanes because the gap is
too small, yet I often hear of people managing 12+mph averages in this area.
I wonder how.

Adam

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:00:34 -0700, Marz wrote:
> I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
> compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
> having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
> are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
> do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.

It is exactly the same in different parts of the UK. I think it depends
on many things, the number of cyclists on the road is one of them.

It also seems to vary with the seasons/weather - more people are out
cycling in the better weather and people are generally happier to be out
in the sun (cyclists and everyone else) so people are a bit more courteous
to each other.

peter

On Apr 16, 2:00 pm, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
> right before going right...

Why should they look there (beyond looking ahead to the right for
traffic in the crosswalk)?

If one is in the right most lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that
there is nothing coming up behind on the right when one is making a
right turn.

naked_draughtsman wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:00:34 -0700, Marz wrote:
>> I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
>> compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
>> having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
>> are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
>> do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.
>
> It is exactly the same in different parts of the UK. I think it depends
> on many things, the number of cyclists on the road is one of them.

One thing I have noticed in the last couple of months, is how my cycling
speed affects how other road users treat me. The faster I go, the more I
seem to be cut up, or receive abuse.
In mid-Feb it was taking me just over an hour to commute to work, and
now I am taking 40-45 minutes (still not fast enough). In Feb, I had
hardly any trouble from motorists.

However this could be due to road positioning, the faster I go, the
further from the kerb I ride.

Martin.

On 16 Apr, 18:38, Martin Dann <martin.d...@virgin.net> wrote:
> GoogleUser Marz wrote:
> > When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> > really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> > very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> > with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> > work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> > other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> Really depends upon the circumstances. If I approach a red light, and
> just before I get there, a motorists cuts in front and blocks me, then I
> will return the favour.

My thoughts exactly. On the other hand if I catch up a motorist that
overtook me courteously some time before and has been waiting, I wont
filter past, even when there's an ASL.

If theres only one or two cars I wont filter, not worth it. If it's a
lorry of bus (and theres time) I will pass them if safe to do so, as
they have lousy acceleration. I'll filter past when its a long line of
cars too (or at a junction turning right (uk), across the traffic.

> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting before I
> get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
> If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
> If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
> phase if I wait, then I filter.
> Most congestion around here is caused by the amount of single occupier
> cars, so I should pass as I am taking up less room (and subsidising
> their motoring costs).

If you wait and act like a car, you're causing the same amount of
congestion as a car, which car drivers wouldn't like. Much better (for
them) for you to filter.

On Apr 16, 12:09 pm, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> laters,
>
> Marz

You're on the same roads, you've got the same rules, at least
stateside - all y'all 'cross the pond actually have consideration for
bikes written into the laws rather than slapped on at the end like
some kind of afterthought, dontcha.

If the lane is wide enough to share it with a car in the middle of the
block then it must be at the light too, but if I'm taking the lane...
Well, some times even when I'm taking the lane I will move all the way
over to the left edge of that lane to let right turning motorists
squeeze by at the light, but I'm a freaking prince among men whereas
people in spandex are mostly terrible knuckleheads like Kim Jong Il.
(How many commuters do you see wearing spandex, if you gotta buy five
$50 jerseys and hand wash 'em where's the cost savings?)
Plot a course that minimizes being in the situation where you're
waiting for traffic lights, not getting caught up in the motorists'
daily version of critical mass is one of the best parts of being a
Biking (yes, horned head gear). And if you're commuting you're
probably going to the same place every day, you ought to be able to
find better spaces to be in that thems that are completely filled up
with car farts.

Marz writtificated

> do other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

I always filter far enough to guarantee getting through on the green. If
the traffic in front will pass me before the next light I don't bother
filtering forwards of it unless I'm in a hurry. Being, say, three cars
back at the lights means 3 fewer cars given the opportunity to overtake too
close. This is a particularly good idea when it's a large vehicle like a
bus.

On the coldest days I filter to the back of a bus, and warm myself in it's
exhaust. Long as you're close enough your head is above the fumes and it's
all toasty-warm.

Adam Lea wrote:
> [...]
> I often wonder what to do in Central London where I can't pass on the left
> because it is too dangerous, can't pass on the right because I would be in
> the path of oncoming traffic, can't filter between lanes because the gap is
> too small, yet I often hear of people managing 12+mph averages in this area.
> I wonder how.
>
See <http://digave.com/videos/london06-digave_com.mpg> for advice on
riding in London.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Apr 16, 1:09 pm, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> laters,
>
> Marz

I seldom filter forward, because I seldom need to. My job has usually
(not always) allowed me to commute at non-peak times; and I have
routes to and from work that use mostly streets that aren't super-
busy. By those means, I've avoided most of the problem.

There are two intersections, however, where I occasionally have to
make the decision whether or not to filter forward. Both regularly
back up to the point that cars at the back of the queue won't make it
through the green.

The one I deal with most commonly is one where I (and most other
vehicles) are trying to turn left on the green turn arrow. The lanes
are narrow, and the left turn lane is quite long. I keep my place in
line for that one (i.e. dead-center behind the car in front of me),
even if it means I'll miss the green. I see no way to safely filter
forward.

At the other one, I'm going straight, in the right curb lane of a busy
arterial. Lanes are about 12 feet wide, which I consider wide enough
to share if speeds are reasonably low. On that one, I'll almost
always keep my place in the center of the lane. But if the line is so
long that I'll miss the green light, I _very_ carefully filter
forward. Generally, I'll stop sort of between the first and second
car (if there's room), taking care to make eye contact with the driver
of the second car, with a sort of nod of thanks. The great danger is
right hooks, - for example, from a right turn on red. That's why I
don't want to be next to the first car (or much worse, bus or truck).

I may be technically violating a rule by filtering forward on the curb
side (right side, here in the US). I've sometimes heard that all
passing should be done on the left. But ISTM that's silly. There are
times in wide lanes where the cars are faster than I am for a while,
then they must slow down and I'm faster than the cars. To keep all
passing on the left would require a series of figure 8 moves with
ballet precision.

- Frank Krygowski

On Apr 17, 2:09 am, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?

Well if all you are doing is moving up ~5 cars to the head of the
queue, when all of you are going to get through the lights at the next
green phase, then there is little time gained by doing this (in some
cases it may be safer).

Of course I jump the lights routinely so of course I almost always go
past the queues of traffic.

The lights are only there to manage the gridlocked cars, so long as I
can see it's safe I'll continue on my way. In Japan they don't even
default to priority for the through route at quiet times, but cycle
regularly day and night irrespective of traffic flow. I'm not going to
stop every 100 yards just because of some brain-dead traffic planning
- it's annoying enough having to slow down and check just in case
something is going across.

James

Simon Mason wrote:
>
> "Marz" <marzjennings@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4-a622-8d8645c9918f@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
>> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
>> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
>> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
>> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
>> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>>
>> laters,
>>
>> Marz
>
> 9/10 I will ride to the head of the queue/line or past slow moving
> vehicles. Sometimes if there is a bus or lorry in front and there is a
> chance the lights will change before I can get past then it's not worth
> the risk. Keeping in the queue just negates the advantage of being on a
> bike.
>
>
My advice is NEVER go in front of the first vehicle unless there is a
good ASL.
Take primary position behind first vehicle. The driver of the first
vehicle will be looking at the lights to see when they change, and even
if you think he should see you he may not. In addition an increasing
proportion of drivers don't realise that 'indicators' should be used in
advance of a manoeuvre to indicate intentions rather that show "I'm now
turning left", as if it isn't bloddy obvious by that stage. At a
junction I use almost daily I recon only half vehicles that are first in
Q indicate in advance that they're turn left, with the other half either
not indicating at all or only indicating as they move off to make the turn.

Similar applies to R'abouts, don't undertake first vehicle in Q but move
off behind him. In Cambridge a cyclist was killed when an HGV moved off
at a R'about when cyclist in front didn't.

Jim Chisholm

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 16, 2:00 pm, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
>> right before going right...
>
> Why should they look there (beyond looking ahead to the right for
> traffic in the crosswalk)?
>
> If one is in the right most lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that
> there is nothing coming up behind on the right when one is making a
> right turn.
>
>
>
>

Because if a pedestrian is stepping off the corner that they are turning
on, what will happen?
~

On Apr 17, 6:47 am, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
> victor....@gmail.com wrote:
....
> Because if a pedestrian is stepping off the corner that they are turning
> on, what will happen?

How does a pedestrian stepping off the corner qualify as coming up
behind on the right, as a cyclist filtering up the right edge does?