Giro to welcome Astana?

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Ulrich was sick during the at least the first half of the 2004 Tour. He crashed twice during the 2005 one.And he was overweight and undertrained in the 5 previous. Don't get me wrong, I always liked Ulrich, and I thought he looked spectacular in '96 and '97, but he never showed those flashes of brilliance after '97-98 IMHO.

Sastre, Menchov, and Cunego have never shown themselves to be potential winners. I thought Valverde would be the next heir to the crown, but something dramatic happened to him last year... We'll see what he looks like this year.IMVHO they are all very solid riders, and with the lessened doping, looser control on the part of the 'dominant' teams and absence of a recognised race leader, these riders should be considered as potential top 5 finishers (at least going into the race/through the first real mountain stage).

With Astana missing I wonder what kind of race it will turn out to be. I agree with others that we could be in for a surprise.

Ulrich was sick during the at least the first half of the 2004 Tour. He crashed twice during the 2005 one.Also didnt he crash into the back of a team car cutting his neck the day before the 2005 tour started.

I think that in his last two tours he was the third strongest climber after Basso and Ullrich.



No question Ullrich was better than Cadel in 2005 in every aspect, but that's not what we're comparing. Cadel in 2007 is much, much better than he was in 2005 (but he still sucks). I don't think a 2007 Ullrich could've stayed on his wheel. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

IMVHO they are all very solid riders, and with the lessened doping, looser control on the part of the 'dominant' teams and absence of a recognised race leader, these riders should be considered as potential top 5 finishers (at least going into the race/through the first real mountain stage).

With Astana missing I wonder what kind of race it will turn out to be. I agree with others that we could be in for a surprise.Solid..yes. Great?..no. BTW, none of those guys are known for being clean, so if the racing is really cleaned up (doubtful) then we would expect performance decreases all around.

Solid..yes. Great?..no. BTW, none of those guys are known for being clean, so if the racing is really cleaned up (doubtful) then we would expect performance decreases all around.Fair enough, but you made me smile with the 'not known for being clean' comment. I think that we shall be seeing performance decreases all around (for the entire peloton) this year... so we do not know how they will fare against the other boys.

Fair enough, but you made me smile with the 'not known for being clean' comment. I think that we shall be seeing performance decreases all around (for the entire peloton) this year... so we do not know how they will fare against the other boys.
So P-N was a farce but MSR wasn't? And Contador is the greatest cyclist in the world and would have beaten Ullrich in the TTs? Most amusingly, I'm sure a rider whose won the Giro and the Race of the Falling Leaves in the same season would be delighted to know he's not a winner. Riding for Bruyneel doesn't make you the greatest, strongest rider in the world - but it does, with your history with Saiz and your deep involvement in OP - make you one of the most suspicious.

Anyway fs, thanks for a good laugh to start the day

So P-N was a farce but MSR wasn't? And Contador is the greatest cyclist in the world and would have beaten Ullrich in the TTs? Most amusingly, I'm sure a rider whose won the Giro and the Race of the Falling Leaves in the same season would be delighted to know he's not a winner. Riding for Bruyneel doesn't make you the greatest, strongest rider in the world - but it does, with your history with Saiz and your deep involvement in OP - make you one of the most suspicious.

Anyway fs, thanks for a good laugh to start the day:confused: Are you responding to my post?

I think that both P-N and MSR would relatively fair this year and that probably most riders are not doping in a manner which we had grown accustomed to. The declining wattage in the P-N, and the 'strange' results of races like the K-B-K or Het Volk lead me to believe things are a bit cleaner than in the past.

And I certainly do not believe that Contador is the greatest rider ever... nor that he is better than a Kaiser Jan (doped, I know) in his prime.

I agree with the suspicion re: Sainz and the entire OP affair, although, sadly, I think most pro cyclists must be regarded with suspicion when it comes to doping...

No question Ullrich was better than Cadel in 2005 in every aspect, but that's not what we're comparing. Cadel in 2007 is much, much better than he was in 2005 (but he still sucks). I don't think a 2007 Ullrich could've stayed on his wheel. Unfortunately, we'll never know.
He wasn't actually that great on the climbs in the 2007 TDF. You can take a look at who he finished with or behind. He did well in the TT's but Ullrich should have been able to take time from him there.

Wasn't Contador banned from racing in Italy anyway because of his involvement in puerto?

apologies, pete, was so busy pissing myself laughing replied to the wrong post - had meant a general reply to fscyclist and his claims.

Contador has potential but the fact his brain exploded when he was 20 makes you wonder - coupled with the fact he seems unable to break the ONCE-Liberty-Astana chain there are big question marks. As for the Tour he won, he wouldn't have made the top step of the podium if Rasmussen had stayed in the race - the Chicken had the beating of him every time the road went upwards and it frankly amazes me how everyone lauds Contador and there's never a word about Rasmussen's incendiary riding in that race. As for the laughable suggestion that Contadope would have taken too much time out of uberdoperJan in the climbs and then held him easily in the time trials - and been clean doing it - made me spit coffee all over my keyboard.

il n’est pas exclu que Contador participe à la grande boucle dans les rangs de l’équipe CAISSE D’EPARGNE.
http://www.velo-club.net/article?sid=44196

apologies, pete, was so busy pissing myself laughing replied to the wrong post - had meant a general reply to fscyclist and his claims.
No worries, I figured it was something like that!

il n’est pas exclu que Contador participe à la grande boucle dans les rangs de l’équipe CAISSE D’EPARGNE.
http://www.velo-club.net/article?sid=44196That is an interesting tidbit. Contador swears eternal loyalty to Astana. But he may ride the Tour for Caisse d'Epargne. But the director of Caisse d'Epargne says he has not approached Contador and Astana will have to come to him and 'offer' to let Contador ride with them. Oh, and he loves the biological passport idea.

Hhhhmmmm...

That is an interesting tidbit. Contador swears eternal loyalty to Astana. But he may ride the Tour for Caisse d'Epargne. But the director of Caisse d'Epargne says he has not approached Contador and Astana will have to come to him and 'offer' to let Contador ride with them. Oh, and he loves the biological passport idea.

Hhhhmmmm...That would be quite a team...think Valverde riding a support role to Contador (...and having a better Tour than last year). Would Valverde accept the status of a domestic is a totally different question though.

But anyways, is it possible to "loan" riders in cycling? I know our ice-hockey teams do it in the spring: some teams that are sure to not reach the play-offs loan their top players to the teams that are going to make it to the play-offs. But I've never heard if they can do a similiar thing in cycling.

There was talk of Pantani doing it some years ago which came to nothing.

I can't take any more of this - Contador and Valverde together? The OP twins? My keyboard is now swimming in coffee...

There was talk of Pantani doing it some years ago which came to nothing.

I can't take any more of this - Contador and Valverde together? The OP twins? My keyboard is now swimming in coffee...
The OP triplets. Luis León Sánchez is also on CdE.

That is an interesting tidbit. Contador swears eternal loyalty to Astana. But he may ride the Tour for Caisse d'Epargne. But the director of Caisse d'Epargne says he has not approached Contador and Astana will have to come to him and 'offer' to let Contador ride with them. Oh, and he loves the biological passport idea.

Hhhhmmmm...I'd say he is full of it. Didn't he offer his DNA for clearing his name with regards to OP? Now that the offer has been made by the Spanish authorities, has he rushed to clear his name? Dude probably does not even know how many lies he has told in the past. :rolleyes:

The OP triplets. Luis León Sánchez is also on CdE.I say, let's put all the OP multiplets in a single team. Easier for the race organizers to keep them all out by not inviting that team. ;)

That would be quite a team...think Valverde riding a support role to Contador (...and having a better Tour than last year). Would Valverde accept the status of a domestic is a totally different question though.
At some point Valverde is going to have to admit to himself that he cannot win the tour. Aside from it being his bad luck race with crashing out, his performance last year was pretty poor. Of course, he was probably off the juice given the thinly veiled threats by both Ann Gripper and the ASO to certain cyclists of which he was one.