Road Rage

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I was crossing a street in central London recently on my bike. Whilst I was doing so, a black cab started to turn the corner into the road that I was crossing. I was about a third/half way across the road and the cab seemed to have no intention of stopping. Perturbed by his actions, I stopped in the middle of the road and raised my hands as if to ask him what he was doing, and I then quickly moved on.

However, the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note of his number plate.

Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't carry out his threats.

I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if there was a need to access it.

I feel bit aggrieved by this because I basically did nothing wrong and it's not acceptable to threaten to kill someone.

Another thing, I'll report it to the relevant black cab complaints people, but I'm not sure they'll care because I don't have a number plate. However, I was wondering if black cabs are logged on a central computer somehow, which gives a record of their location at a certain time (bit of a long shot but worth asking.)

This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of accessing images etc.

There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:57:10 +1100, dannyfrankszzz
<dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> said in
<dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>:

>the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the
>street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for
>about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of
>times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note
>of his number plate

It's the cab number you need, the dibbles don't like vicious idiots
to have hackney carriage licenses.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

dannyfrankszzz <dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
wrote:

> I was crossing a street in central London recently on my bike. Whilst I
> was doing so, a black cab started to turn the corner into the road that
> I was crossing. I was about a third/half way across the road and the
> cab seemed to have no intention of stopping. Perturbed by his actions,
> I stopped in the middle of the road and raised my hands as if to ask him
> what he was doing, and I then quickly moved on.
>
> However, the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the
> street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for
> about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of
> times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note
> of his number plate.
>
> Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV
> footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've
> basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't
> carry out his threats.

Report this as a crime (careless driving, at least). The police will be,
as I understand it, obliged to investigate.

Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Ekul Namsob <> wrote:
> dannyfrankszzz <dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV
> > footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've
> > basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't
> > carry out his threats.
>
> Report this as a crime (careless driving, at least). The police will be,
> as I understand it, obliged to investigate.

fsvo obliged and investigate. In the case of teh motorist who did ram
me, resulting in my ambulance trip to hospital, the investigation
comprised looking on their computer, noticing that the vehicle was
registered to a non-existent address, writing to tell me there was
nothing they could do.

(Actually, first they wrote to me to say there was nothing they could
do without a number plate, and only after I wrote to point out that
1: I told them the number plate, and
2: so did at least one witness, and
3: I had successfully looked up teh number plate for myself on DVLAs
database and teh manufacturer, make and colour matched teh description
supplied did they come up with teh 'phony address' letter.)

(No long-term harm incidently, other than a scar covering half teh
length of my forearm and another the full length of my thigh and
about 30mm wide at teh widest point).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:57:10 +1100,
dannyfrankszzz <dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a
> camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a
> busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if
> there was a need to access it.
>
> This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of
> accessing images etc.
>
> There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word
> against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with
> threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.
>
I think you can make a FOI request for the video image of yourself from
the camera. All you need is the exact date and time. Then you'll be able
to get the cab number. Think it will cost you 10GBP.

(But I could be wrong on the FOI thing)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

dannyfrankszzz wrote:
> I was crossing a street in central London recently on my bike. Whilst I
> was doing so, a black cab started to turn the corner into the road that
> I was crossing. I was about a third/half way across the road and the
> cab seemed to have no intention of stopping. Perturbed by his actions,
> I stopped in the middle of the road and raised my hands as if to ask him
> what he was doing, and I then quickly moved on.
>
> However, the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the
> street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for
> about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of
> times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note
> of his number plate.
>
> Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV
> footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've
> basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't
> carry out his threats.
>
> I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a
> camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a
> busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if
> there was a need to access it.
>
> I feel bit aggrieved by this because I basically did nothing wrong and
> it's not acceptable to threaten to kill someone.
>
> Another thing, I'll report it to the relevant black cab complaints
> people, but I'm not sure they'll care because I don't have a number
> plate. However, I was wondering if black cabs are logged on a central
> computer somehow, which gives a record of their location at a certain
> time (bit of a long shot but worth asking.)
>
> This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of
> accessing images etc.
>
> There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word
> against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with
> threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.
>
>

They threaten me on a regular basis. ;o)

Normally I just put on a posh accent and say that type of behaviour may
be ok on the council slums that they come from but it is not acceptable
here.

Add a few comments about them being a thug etc.

If you expect the police to do anything about it you are living in cloud
cuckoo land.

On Feb 27, 11:21 pm, Tim Woodall <devn...@woodall.me.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:57:10 +1100,
> dannyfrankszzz <dannyfrankszzz.35g...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a
> > camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a
> > busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if
> > there was a need to access it.
>
> > This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of
> > accessing images etc.
>
> > There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word
> > against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with
> > threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.
>
> I think you can make a FOI request for the video image of yourself from
> the camera. All you need is the exact date and time. Then you'll be able
> to get the cab number. Think it will cost you 10GBP.
>
> (But I could be wrong on the FOI thing)

wouldn't the cab reg be redacted from the copy you could apply for?
AIUI the cabbie's face certainly would be

best wishes
james

In article <dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>,
dannyfrankszzz
dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com says...
>
> I was crossing a street in central London recently on my bike. Whilst I
> was doing so, a black cab started to turn the corner into the road that
> I was crossing.

I don't quite understand what you mean by crossing a street on your
bike.

> I was about a third/half way across the road and the
> cab seemed to have no intention of stopping. Perturbed by his actions,
> I stopped in the middle of the road and raised my hands as if to ask him
> what he was doing, and I then quickly moved on.

Rather than continuing on your path to get out of the way, you stopped
and waved at him?
>
> However, the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the
> street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for
> about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of
> times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note
> of his number plate.

Isn't this a bit like running away from a dog? Stop and face it and it
will probably stop chasing you.
>
> Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV
> footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've
> basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't
> carry out his threats.
>
I'm tempted to say you should wait for him to get his knife out, then
draw your machete and grin at him, but that would be facetious.

On Feb 28, 12:24 am, james.de...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Feb 27, 11:21 pm, Tim Woodall <devn...@woodall.me.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:57:10 +1100,
> > dannyfrankszzz <dannyfrankszzz.35g...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a
> > > camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a
> > > busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if
> > > there was a need to access it.
>
> > > This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of
> > > accessing images etc.
>
> > > There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word
> > > against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with
> > > threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.
>
> > I think you can make a FOI request for the video image of yourself from
> > the camera. All you need is the exact date and time. Then you'll be able
> > to get the cab number. Think it will cost you 10GBP.
>
> > (But I could be wrong on the FOI thing)
>
> wouldn't the cab reg be redacted from the copy you could apply for?
> AIUI the cabbie's face certainly would be
>
> best wishes
> james

I don't think so. It's not personal identifying information any more
than a street name would be.

Tim.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:57:10 +1100, dannyfrankszzz
<dannyfrankszzz.35gjnz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>
>I was crossing a street in central London recently on my bike. Whilst I
>was doing so, a black cab started to turn the corner into the road that
>I was crossing. I was about a third/half way across the road and the
>cab seemed to have no intention of stopping. Perturbed by his actions,
>I stopped in the middle of the road and raised my hands as if to ask him
>what he was doing, and I then quickly moved on.
>
>However, the cabbie took great offence to this and chased me down the
>street saying that he was going to f'ing stab me. This carried on for
>about a minute or so with me having to change directions a couple of
>times. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to get away to take a note
>of his number plate.
>
>Obviously, I'm thinking about the possibility of accessing CCTV
>footage; I have told the police about the situation and they've
>basically said that they'll take no further action because he didn't
>carry out his threats.
>
>I've been back to the location in question and there is definitely a
>camera in the exact spot where the incident happened (it's outside a
>busy pub), and so I'm convinced that there is footage of the incident if
>there was a need to access it.
>
>I feel bit aggrieved by this because I basically did nothing wrong and
>it's not acceptable to threaten to kill someone.
>
>Another thing, I'll report it to the relevant black cab complaints
>people, but I'm not sure they'll care because I don't have a number
>plate. However, I was wondering if black cabs are logged on a central
>computer somehow, which gives a record of their location at a certain
>time (bit of a long shot but worth asking.)
>
>This all happened quite recently and so time is important in terms of
>accessing images etc.
>
>There wouldn't be any witnesses to what the cabbie was saying (my word
>against his in court), but then his actions would be consistent with
>threatening behaviour, which would all be on film.

If my recent experiences are anything to go by, the police won't take
any action.

In October last year, while I was leading a group of twelve 8-year-old
children over a hump back bridge, a driver of a car overtook us in a
dangerous manner. The driver then drove up to the kerb, got out of
his car came over to me and asulted me, leaving the children in a
hysterical state. Just before the driver drove away I took this photo
of his car.
www.johnballcycling.org.uk/photos/PA171052
Each and every month I get letters from the police telling me that
they are still investigating, but as far as I can tell they have done
nothing.

I have tried to make a complaint about the lack of action, but the
sergeant, investigating my complaint on behalf of the inspector, has
refused to take details of my complaint or even record it as a
complaint.

Tom Crispin said the following on 29/04/2008 07:47:

> I have tried to make a complaint about the lack of action, but the
> sergeant, investigating my complaint on behalf of the inspector, has
> refused to take details of my complaint or even record it as a
> complaint.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/ ??

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:47:04 +0100 someone who may be Tom Crispin
<kije.remove@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> wrote this:-

>I have tried to make a complaint about the lack of action, but the
>sergeant, investigating my complaint on behalf of the inspector, has
>refused to take details of my complaint or even record it as a
>complaint.

<http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/complaints/what_happens.htm>


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article <Wuudnc-MULxVUIvVnZ2dnUVZ8hidnZ2d@plusnet>,
Paul Boyd <usenet.is.worse@plusnet> wrote:
>Tom Crispin said the following on 29/04/2008 07:47:
>> I have tried to make a complaint about the lack of action, but the
>> sergeant, investigating my complaint on behalf of the inspector, has
>> refused to take details of my complaint or even record it as a
>> complaint.
>
>http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/ ??

`Crisis at police watchdog as lawyers resign'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/feb/25/police.law1

They're being useless at me as well.

Tom can probably get the IPCC to uphold his appeal about the police
refusing to take details of his complaint. But that's just
procedural. They'll be told to record the complaint, which they will
do, and then when they investigate it will turn out that *shock* it
was all Tom's fault and the police have acted perfectly properly.

The IPCC won't help with that at all. They won't be interested so
long as the police have done their paperwork properly.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

On 29 Apr 2008 11:55:19 +0100 (BST) someone who may be Ian Jackson
<ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote this:-

>`Crisis at police watchdog as lawyers resign'
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/feb/25/police.law1

I have pointed that article out before. However, it is still
worthwhile spending a small amount of time dealing with useless
organisations. Not the least because they will record it if they
have any sense.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Ian Jackson writtificated

> Tom can probably get the IPCC to uphold his appeal about the police
> refusing to take details of his complaint. But that's just
> procedural. They'll be told to record the complaint, which they will
> do, and then when they investigate it will turn out that *shock* it
> was all Tom's fault and the police have acted perfectly properly.

On the bright side the complaint will have been recorded. We simply cannot
have a situation in which the police refuse to record complaints.

In article <Xns9A8FAAE51BE4Ewibbled@130.133.1.4>,
Mark T <pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid> wrote:
>Ian Jackson writtificated
>> Tom can probably get the IPCC to uphold his appeal about the police
>> refusing to take details of his complaint. But that's just
>> procedural. They'll be told to record the complaint, which they will
>> do, and then when they investigate it will turn out that *shock* it
>> was all Tom's fault and the police have acted perfectly properly.
>
>On the bright side the complaint will have been recorded. We simply cannot
>have a situation in which the police refuse to record complaints.

Well, err, yes.

If Tom needs any help or advice he should feel free to contact me. I
do a good line in complaint letters (and have had the odd successful
court action). My record with IPCC appeals is rather poorer but (even
if I do say myself) I think this is more because the IPCC are useless
than because of mistakes on my part.

If he wants to have the complaint recorded and `investigated' he
should in the first instance put it in writing. The address will be
on the force's website. In that letter he can also complain about the
desk sergeant who wouldn't take the complaint in person.

Someone who is complaining against the police will, when the police
get their paperwork straight, usually be offered `local resolution'.
It is often a mistake to agree to `local resolution' because it
precludes any appeal to the IPCC against the findings of the
subsequent police `investigation'.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

In article <usF*lsDbs@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>If [Tom] wants to have the complaint recorded and `investigated'

But I do want to make again the point that the hope of any globally
useful outcome from such a complaint is slim.

After all what Tom and I both want is for criminals to be prosecuted.

Sadly from this point of view, my own recent complaint has not really
been helpful. I wanted to persuade the police to prosecute criminals.
Instead they have diverted enormous amounts of their time and effort
into arse-covering. They'll do anything but admit they were wrong.

Since the system is incapable of upholding any complaint other than on
the grounds that the paperwork wasn't done right, making complaints
against stubbornly wrong and useless police forces just arranges to
give them a lesson in paperwork. That's not likely to make them more
useful.

That doesn't mean I'm going to give up my own battle. But I do wonder
whether others will have the stomach and bloodymindedness to take on a
system which appears to have been designed in all its baroque
monstrousnouss as a set of machinery for fobbing off, discouraging and
generally getting rid of complainants and criticisms.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657