Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

I just want to see a clean fucking race one summer and be able to cheer and discuss the tactics of the day with my friends. I want to talk about racing, and watch racing, and think about racing, and maybe even race a little myself. People like the entire group of shit heads that made their living from USPS and Discovery make me want to hurl things because they fucked up the sport beyond comprehension.I'm with you on that... but I think the only way we will be sure of no doping... will be if it is nearly imposssible to dope due to testing or quarantining or whatever (this may be impossible).

As long as people can dope and get away with it, people will dope IMO, no matter how many affidavits and pledges they sign. The less people that dope as well, the more rewards there are for doping. It's an unfortunate Catch 22.

Sorry TFF, I ment intended... :o

Hope you got it anyway what I ment, sorry for my bad English!

The problem here is where do you draw the line? How do you know which teams are doping or not? Impossible IMO...

As long as people can dope and get away with it, people will dope IMO, no matter how many affidavits and pledges they sign. The less people that dope as well, the more rewards there are for doping. It's an unfortunate Catch 22.+1... And, at what point does it get too expensive to police the sport?

I have spoken with Cadel after the presentation. He thinks the Tour is gonna be a very open race and that it would suit him if Astana would start because the other teams will force them to take control over the race. He also said that in the end it isn't that important because if he wants to win the Tour he has to be the best rider. He said the Tour is a lot about saving energy, it would be nice if Astana has to spend a lot of energy by controlling the race in the early stages.


I will publish the full interview with Cade on CH later this week (and two more with Popo and McEwen)

+1... And, at what point does it get too expensive to police the sport?The first step is to root out corruption in UCI. If that is done, and a somewhat reliable biological passport type system is implemented, along with somewhat draconian measures for busted riders and their teams, one can at least reduce the extent of doping significantly (at least that is my hope). Yes, dopers are always one step ahead of the testers, but that is the best that you can do. Unfortunately, people are always greedy for money, and so I don't know if the very first step can be achieved...

+1... And, at what point does it get too expensive to police the sport?By laws, who helps athletes to dope is guilty, and should have to face jail!

A lot of providers would disappear, especially at low field.
On top level more OOC and biological passport would reduce the range of doping.
Biological passport gives 3 levels:
* athlete allowed to compete
* athlete not allowed to compete, like hct out of range
* AAF !

I'm with you on that... but I think the only way we will be sure of no doping... will be if it is nearly imposssible to dope due to testing or quarantining or whatever (this may be impossible).

As long as people can dope and get away with it, people will dope IMO, no matter how many affidavits and pledges they sign. The less people that dope as well, the more rewards there are for doping. It's an unfortunate Catch 22.
It will always be impossible, the form of dopeing will always be invented befor the test to detect it will be made. Just like a virus is always present befor you have a cure.

I have spoken with Cadel after the presentation. He thinks the Tour is gonna be a very open race and that it would suit him if Astana would start because the other teams will force them to take control over the race. He also said that in the end it isn't that important because if he wants to win the Tour he has to be the best rider. He said the Tour is a lot about saving energy, it would be nice if Astana has to spend a lot of energy by controlling the race in the early stages.


I will publish the full interview with Cade on CH later this week (and two more with Popo and McEwen)You are getting some great interviews and great content CH. Keep it up Sir. It is very appreciated.

Well, why would you think, he can apply that tactics this year, if he couldn't last year, against the same rivals?
I didn't say it would be easy or work but sometimes you can't do anything else :D

Astana have a few cards to play and Cadel would have to be real careful to determine which ones to respond to. (Not to forget the other teams with high placed GC riders)
Should be a good year, I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

I cannot see Armstrong giving up the oportunity to get a rival disinvited. Evans sticking with a team that has half the squad built around sprinter just says he does not really want to do what it takes to win.

Evans, the australian Hincapie.

I have spoken with Cadel after the presentation. He thinks the Tour is gonna be a very open race and that it would suit him if Astana would start because the other teams will force them to take control over the race. He also said that in the end it isn't that important because if he wants to win the Tour he has to be the best rider. He said the Tour is a lot about saving energy, it would be nice if Astana has to spend a lot of energy by controlling the race in the early stages.


I will publish the full interview with Cade on CH later this week (and two more with Popo and McEwen)

I'm looking forward to read the interview. Now what you write above about 'Astana spending energy' and himself 'saving energy', tis sounds awfully like 'wheelsucking' to me. There, I said it. It only took 4 pages.

Seriously, I think Cadel and Kloden have a 'Cliff Barnes, fear of winning' complex. Sure Silence Lotto (I still crack up every time I read the name) is not a strong team, but at some point, if you want to win something, you have to take responsibility, control. Neither Cadel nor Kloden seem to understand or be capable of this.

Seriously, I think Cadel and Kloden have a 'Cliff Barnes, fear of winning' complex.
LOL. That's a good analogy.

Maybe it should be Cliff Barnacle.

What I find an interesting paradox in cycling is that smart cycling from the perspective of the path of least resistance to the finish line is to maximize wheel sucking. Yet the behavior is disdained from both competitors and spectators as parasitic and whimpy. Its an interesting paradox.

What I find an interesting paradox in cycling is that smart cycling from the perspective of the path of least resistance to the finish line is to maximize wheel sucking. Yet the behavior is disdained from both competitors and spectators as parasitic and whimpy. Its an interesting paradox.
The difference between those who are criticized as wheelsuckers and those that are not, is the wheelsuckers never seem to attack--ever. Fans will accept a rider who conserves his strength and launches a rare, opportune move that gains time.

The difference between those who are criticized as wheelsuckers and those that are not, is the wheelsuckers never seem to attack--ever. Fans will accept a rider who conserves his strength and launches a rare, opportune move that gains time.But one can only make the kick if one has the gas in the tank to do so. If you are using 20% less energy than whoever is sharing the wind out of say four guys, but you have 5% less energy than them, then you are just as farked as they are, even though you haven't taken the wind or attacked.

For instance today, I hung onto Eden's wheel on the climbs today. I could stay close to her. But I knew she could probably cover easily any attack I made (assuming we were racing), and I would be just giving her the chance to suck my wheel if I did attack. She is the stronger climber, carrying most of the wind, but I am still able to stay on her wheel (lets just assume that our sprints at the end are similar). If I'd have attacked at any stage, I would have increased my chances of losing her wheel eventually by an exponential amount IMO.

My tactics would have looked insipid to any observer. But they arguably were the best tactics for me as a weaker rider.

I have a hunch that Cadel might actually be a smart guy, who doesn't have the talent to gain a podium spot unless he tucks himself in for the ride.

Of course this strategy is utterly boring to watch.

Wheelsucking is ineffective on climb, at less than 20km/h, there is no drag gain. Maybe only psychological benefit. Why not be in front sometimes? Isn't it an indication of weakness?

Wheelsucking is ineffective on climb, at less than 20km/h, there is no drag gain. Maybe only psychological benefit. Why not be in front sometimes? Isn't it an indication of weakness?So why did Kloden drop back to help Vino then?

IMO it has less affect but not no effect.

Remember Floyd pacing Lance up the mountain in 2004 was it?

But one can only make the kick if one has the gas in the tank to do so. If you are using 20% less energy than whoever is sharing the wind out of say four guys, but you have 5% less energy than them, then you are just as farked as they are, even though you haven't taken the wind or attacked.

For instance today, I hung onto Eden's wheel on the climbs today. I could stay close to her. But I knew she could probably cover easily any attack I made (assuming we were racing), and I would be just giving her the chance to suck my wheel if I did attack. She is the stronger climber, carrying most of the wind, but I am still able to stay on her wheel (lets just assume that our sprints at the end are similar). If I'd have attacked at any stage, I would have increased my chances of losing her wheel eventually by an exponential amount IMO.

My tactics would have looked insipid to any observer. But they arguably were the best tactics for me as a weaker rider.

I have a hunch that Cadel might actually be a smart guy, who doesn't have the talent to gain a podium spot unless he tucks himself in for the ride.

Of course this strategy is utterly boring to watch.
A tempo climber like Evans will never excite the fans like a Simoni will, but losing plays a big part. If Evans could have pulled out a win this year then a lot would have been forgiven. Two identical riders use the same tactics. One wins the other loses. The one who wins is heroic for triumphing over his deficiencies. The other is a chump. It's unfair, but that's just how it is.

... it's unfair, but that's just how it is.I think you mean its perhaps harsh... but fair... cause it is what it is...

Actually I've reread it and Im not sure what you meant by unfair.... I may have just picked up the wrong meaning above.

The difference between those who are criticized as wheelsuckers and those that are not, is the wheelsuckers never seem to attack--ever. Fans will accept a rider who conserves his strength and launches a rare, opportune move that gains time.The other distinguishing thing about wheelsuckers is that they do not do their share of work in a breakaway group.