1970's LeJuene Help?

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Hi Bobcat, (or anyone one else)

Checked out the the site , thanks

Let me get this right, I need:

New shifters---No friction shifters listed, I assume thay are all index now, probably not a bad thing.
A new cassette---7-sp seem to be listed by tooth size, 11-28 or 13-26, I can figure out that means the total of teeth per wheel.

Do I need a new rear derailleur too?

Sorry to be so lame, thanks for the help.

As for the frame size, I don't have an inch of clearance when I straddle the top tube with my feet flat on the ground, less than that.

Getting quotes on the stem, bar end shifters, and dual position brakes just in case.

It was mentioned that most bar end shifters are set up for 7-8 gears and wouldn't work for a 5 gear rear cluster. I thought they were friction, without click stops. Why wouldn't this work? I think you have to go back to the Rivendell site & read Grant Petersen's philosophy with regard to frame sizing ...

No doubt (at least, in my mind), Petersen would probably fit you with the same frame size as your LeJeune's ... and, if you look at the prices of the Rivendell frames (the cheapest is $800 only because it was a one-of-a-kind), you will see that you'd have to pony up ~$2000 for a ready-to-ride Rivendell. THAT should hopefully encourage you to keep your LeJeune!

You can e-mail him, directly (grant@rivbike.com (grant@rivbike.com)), and he will probably give you his input ... but, before you bother him, you should read through ALL the info on his site. You can start here: (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/article/bike_fit/choosing_a_frame_size (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/article/bike_fit/choosing_a_frame_size)),

FWIW/BTW. If-or-Once you commit to your LeJeune, you can increase the distance between the top tube & your crotch by a small amount by simply (okay, but at what expense?) changing your 27" wheels (which have the equivalent diameter of a 700x32 wheel) to 700c wheels + 700x25 tires. Making THAT change will lower the bike by about 4mm ... not much, BUT when I ride one of my older frames (AND, when I rode my 60cm GITANE), I (would) simply lean the bike over when I stopped -- YES, stopping-and-standing-astride-your-bike while riding a larger frame is that easy if the rest of the dimensions "fit" the rider.

In part of Petersen's exposition, he makes the observation that in the 40s, the saddle was much closer to the top tube (I would have referred you to the 50s & early 60s).

Having more seatpost exposure is really the consequence of the great differential between same on bikes used by competitive racers ... the notion of having MORE clearance as suggested by the Kommisars of Safety is undoubtely the result of one of them having landed on the top tube when he was riding his balloon-or-middle-weight tired, coaster brake bike despite his bike probably having 7"-or-MORE of clearance!

If you have just barely got an inch of crotch clearance, then you've actually got MORE CLEARANCE with your LeJeune than I have on my 52cm bikes.

-

The current-and-recent Shimano bar-end shifters can be used in FRICTION MODE ... a simple "twist" of a toggle on the RIGHT shifter JOHN M corrected my impression that the LEFT Shimano bar-end could also be toggled, but I actually found one of my LEFT shifters, and it is indeed FRICTION-ONLY!] changes the shifter between FRICTION and INDEXED modes ...

Indexing has its benefits when you go beyond 6-speeds beause the cog spacing gets closer ...

There is a DIFFERENT indexing disc for the different cog spacings ... so, it is best to decide which one you want ... I recommend 8-speed because you should be able to index it with a 7-speed freewheel/cassette if you ever make that change; but, any will do if you are going to be using it in FRICTION mode.

I believe that ALL of the 7-speed freewheels/freehubs need a 126mm-or-wider rear triangle.

To repeat MYSELF, you can re-space almost ANY (there are some exceptions) SHIMANO FREEHUB to 120mm if you have the will & money, so the frame-itself, does not have to be respaced. A Shimano ACERA hub (135mm) is actually one of the cheaper hubs, and it can be converted without buying/cannibalizing any additional hubs. I am pretty sure that you can stack a 7-speed cassette (or, an 8-speed MINUS one cog) on the shorter freehub ...

New shifters---No friction shifters listed, I assume thay are all index now, probably not a bad thing.
A new cassette---7-sp seem to be listed by tooth size, 11-28 or 13-26, I can figure out that means the total of teeth per wheel.

Do I need a new rear derailleur too?If your frame's CURRENT rear spacing is 120mm, then you cannot use any brand of 7-speed freewheel ... IT JUST WON'T FIT, so you can stop thinking about it for the time being. I don't think that a 6-speed freewheel will fit in a frame with 120mm rear spacing unless you manage to get one of SunTour's ULTRA freewheels (circa 1980).

The sizing indicates the smallest & largest cog on the freewheel/cassette. The smallest cog on a "normal" freewheel is 13t. The smallest cog on a "normal" cassette is 11t.

You will NOT need a new rear derailleur if you will be using the shifters in FRICTION mode. You MAY need a new rear derailleur if you are using the shifters in INDEXED mode.

BTW. An alternative to bar end shifters which you may find to be a better choice (at this point in time, at least), would be to buy some "old"/vintage THUMB SHIFTERS (should less than $20 -- check eBay) which were originally used on very early MTBs ... they can generally toggle between friction & indexed mode, too!

The clamp will be for a smaller diameter handlebar (and, probably made of stamped steel), but the easy work-around would be to simply go to your LBS or a hardware store and buy some longer bolts (or, bolts + nuts if you go to a hardware store) ... you will probably want to file the "corners" of the ID of the clamp near the opening; but, maybe not.

Hey alfeng,

You are an engineer talking to an idiot here, I have to read and study just to understand your replies. Keep them coming please, it forces me to learn.

I don't have an inch clearance when I straddle the top tube, it brushes my crotch when I stand flatfooted. I dealt with this for years without smacking my nuts too badly, I can continue to do so I guess. Hell, I've already spawned once and have no plans on doing it again, thank you.

I'm looking at keeping the bike and riding but doing a MINIMUM of changing, just enough to make riding a little easier.

My LBS says I can use the Duret bar ends either friction or index if I choose, and if I use them friction style, I don't have to change a thing. Ten speeds were always enough for me then, probably will be now too. I might be able to use them index style and adjust a click stop out or just not use the full range.

I'll investigate the thumb shifters, I think I know what you're talking about. If it's simple and easy, I'm all for it.

My other option is to change the brake levers to type I see on so many bikes now, adding a smaller set of levers in the middle and running the brake cable + housing under the tape.

I'll continue to file updates from the field, now if the Ohio weather would cooperate!

I don't have an inch clearance when I straddle the top tube, it brushes my crotch when I stand flatfooted. I dealt with this for years without smacking my nuts too badly, I can continue to do so I guess. Hell, I've already spawned once and have no plans on doing it again, thank you.

If you switch to 700c wheels you might get some nut clearance. But that might go against your minimal changes dictum.

New shifters---No friction shifters listed, I assume thay are all index now, probably not a bad thing.
A new cassette---7-sp seem to be listed by tooth size, 11-28 or 13-26, I can figure out that means the total of teeth per wheel.

Tell us again why you feel compelled to change the shifters. If you limit your largest rear cog to 28 and you don't need indexing or bar-end shifters, the Simplex setup should work fine with 5-speed (120mm rear axle), 6-speed, or 7-speed ultra (126mm rear axle). Before Shimano and Sun Tour, Simplex and Huret were all we had if we couldn't afford Campagnolo, and you are probably better off knowing nothing about Huret. The main weakness with Simplex is the plastic Prestige levers, so iff you simply must get rid of these there are plenty of friction levers available on ebay. And with friction you can mix brands. For years my setup was Simplex derailleurs with Huret down tube levers.

With the 126mm setups you'll have to spread the dropouts 6mm, or about a quarter-inch, get a longer axle, add about 6mm of spacers between the right cone and the axle nut so it clears the freewheel, and re-dish the wheel. The old chain should be replaced, too. Use old style 10-speed for 5- or 6-speed standard freewheel or an 8-speed cassette chain for the ultra (or hyperglide) spacing. They don't make these chains any more, but 8- or 9-speed works fine.

For a gear range I'd recommend 13 or 14 at the small end and 23 to 28 at the large end. 12s are for heroes and wannabes, and 11s are for bikes with compact cranks. Nashbar (www.nashbar.com) has 6- and 7-speed Sun Race freewheels that are quite decent. Also, at any time there are usually about a dozen 5-, 6-, and 7-speed freewheels for sale on ebay.

If you really want to ride this bike on the cheap, you could just re-pack the bearings, re-tape the handlebars, replace cables, and brake pads, and replace 5-speed freewheel and chain with identical gear. Niagara, BikePartsUSA, and ebay sellers have appropriate freewheels and 1/2"x3/32" chains.

For a 126mm axle setup you'll have to find an axle with cups, cones, and spacers and make sure it all fits inside your Normandy dust caps. It's been a long time since I've worked on Normandy hubs, but I think Campagnolo, Zeus, and most Japanese axle sets (Shimano, Sugino, Sanshin, Sun Tour, etc.) are pretty interchangeable (and stronger than Normandy). Vecchio's in Boulder CO has old style Campy hub axles. Or get Niagara or BikePartsUSA on the phone and tell them what you're trying to do.

If you come up with a specific plan I can fill in the links for you.

IThe current-and-recent Shimano bar-end shifters can be used in FRICTION MODE ... a simple "twist" of a toggle on the RIGHT shifter JOHN M corrected my impression that the LEFT Shimano [/color]bar-end could also be toggled, but I actually found one of my LEFT shifters, and it is indeed FRICTION-ONLY!] changes the shifter between FRICTION and INDEXED modes ...

Dang, I forgot about friction mode. All the old 6- and 7-speed indexed shifters could be switched to friction mode. In case you crashed and bent something, friction would still get you home.

By the way, here's a photo of my restoration project, an 1980 Rancho Santa Fe Masi. I'm running a 7-speed freewheel with original Campagnolo shifters.

Dang, I forgot about friction mode. All the old 6- and 7-speed indexed shifters could be switched to friction mode. In case you crashed and bent something, friction would still get you home.

By the way, here's a photo of my restoration project, an 1980 Rancho Santa Fe Masi. I'm running a 7-speed freewheel with original Campagnolo shifters. That sure is a pretty bike! It reminds me of the way things used to be:o.

That sure is a pretty bike! It reminds me of the way things used to be:o.
It's a great ride and conversation piece. It was a freebie that required a little work and parts-hunting to make ridable. Thanks for the complement.

OK Guys,

I don't have a clue what the hell a dropout is, or a freewheel. Thought I had a clue but I guess not. Thought a freewheel was a single sprocket that replaced a derailleur and cluster.

Most of this conversation is so far over my head and my bike riding experience that I now know what it's like when I talk at length to someone who knows nothing about audio equipment.

I want to make the riding experience SIMPLER, EASIER, for a 52 yr old, 230 lb guy who hasn't ridden in years. The Trek MTB I rode some 5-7 years ago doesn't count when we're talking about riding my LeJeune again, it's a totally different animal.

I have no desire to change gear clusters (cassettes?) or have more then 10 speeds. Ever. Don't see a need for it but maybe, if I get back into it, a need will reveal itself.

Every new bike I see has different shifters, and they seem much easier to use than reaching down to the tube mounted shifters that are on the bike now. Maybe they aren't, but they look like they would be.

Ditto for the brakes. When I rode a spent a good amount of time with my hands on the top of the bars and having a set of brake levers there seems mych easier than having to drop my hands down every time I apply the brake. Isn't it?

Especially with 2-3 deteriorating discs in my lower back, as almost all people in America over the age of 50 have. I'm sure running 10- 20 miles a week for most of my life didn't help the discs. I can't run now and had knee surgery a year ago too, and I need something to do. So, the bike comes out of the basement and maybe, just maybe, this will come back to me.

Adapting the bike to my no longer 25 yr old body might do the trick and enable me to get back in the saddle, so to speak. A new saddle couldn't hurt either, now that i think of it.

Bobcat, that ride is fine, congrats on keeping an old one on the road.

Lets try to get you up to speed on the terminology a little. The drop out is a slotted metal piece that is part of your frame. There are two rear dropouts, one on the left and one on the right. Your wheel axle slides into the slots and then are clamped in place by your quick releases or axle nuts, whichever you happen to have. Although you technically have front dropouts also, they are generally refered to collectively as the fork.

The freewheel is the cluster of gears and the body that they ride on. Yours is threaded onto the hub of the rear wheel. This is the mechanism that allows you to coast without the pedal cranks turning.

Freewheels have been replaced by what is called a free hub and a cassette. The cassette is just a cluster of gears. The freehub is a cylindrical item that is attached to the hub of your rear wheel. The free hub is splined and the cassette slides onto it and is held on by a locking ring. Changing your bike to this would pretty much involve getting a new rear wheel. You can still find new freewheels so you don't need to change unless you want to.

Before you get much further into this, I suggest that you invest $20.00 into bicycle repair manual and look through it a little. The one that I use is called The Bicycling Guide to Complete Bicycle Maintenance & Repair by Todd Downs. It is available at Barnes & Nobles or at Borders Books. It pretty much covers bike repair from the 1960's to the present. It has great descriptions and photos of different types of bicycling components so you can decide what you want to use on your bike. It also has a glossary which you would find helpful and there is a section about fit that would help you decide for yourself if your bike is too big for you.

so I can decide what to use on your bike

Thanks for the answers, here's a question.

Do I have to change to a new or different freewheel in order to change the shifters to bar end or thumb shifters?
Can't I just keep the current stuff intact?

Thanks for the answers, here's a question.

Do I have to change to a new or different freewheel in order to change the shifters to bar end or thumb shifters?
Can't I just keep the current stuff intact? You can keep the current stuff intact as long as you get friction shifters instead of indexed shifters. Some shifters have both a friction and index mode. You can use these in the friction mode.

Thanks.

As I said before, simple and easy is the way I wantto do this.

When the weather breaks, I have to see if I'm going to invest the time to ride or not before I make any major changes. New shifters, brakes, and maybe a shorter stem would be about $225. Not bad, worth trying.

Thanks.

As I said before, simple and easy is the way I wantto do this.

When the weather breaks, I have to see if I'm going to invest the time to ride or not before I make any major changes. New shifters, brakes, and maybe a shorter stem would be about $225. Not bad, worth trying.Yes, definitely worth trying ...

But, you do NOT need new brake calipers, so your cost (not counting tires/tubes OR possibly changing the wheel size) should be much less ... and, a lot less if you opt for thumb shifters.

Check eBay for a shorter/(e.g., 90mm) stem if your LBS doesn't have one in stock ... 99% of the stems will be 22.2mm/(English), but that's "okay" for any that don't use an old-style expansion plug as found on a Cinelli stem & probably the one which is currently on your bike where a round plug is wedged into the stem ... as I mentioned before, you can just use some emery cloth to bring the diameter down to 22.0mm. Probably thanks to the Japanese, the plug was replaced with a wedge as a way to secure the stem ... so, almost any stem that uses a wedge is what you can/should look for rather than trying to find a "French" stem.

Thanks.
As for the brakes it was presented to me that I have an option.

The new dual lever brakes have the cable coming out of the side, going under the tape to the smaller set of levers that are mounted on the straight part of the bars. My cable comes out of the top of the lever, so it would lay smoother to pick up an inexpensive set of levers that have the cable feed out the side, going to the second set of levers. It's not neccessary to do so, just would fit under the wrap easier.

As for the stem, I'll have them fit me first and make them order the stem if we feel I need one, then the burden is on them to find the right one.

I'll check out the thumb shifters. Link please?

Thanks.
The new dual lever brakes have the cable coming out of the side, going under the tape to the smaller set of levers that are mounted on the straight part of the bars. My cable comes out of the top of the lever, so it would lay smoother to pick up an inexpensive set of levers that have the cable feed out the side, going to the second set of levers. It's not neccessary to do so, just would fit under the wrap easier.

Do you really need dual lever brakes? If you want to keep costs down, stick with what you've got.

As for the brakes it was presented to me that I have an option.

The new dual lever brakes have the cable coming out of the side, going under the tape to the smaller set of levers that are mounted on the straight part of the bars. My cable comes out of the top of the lever, so it would lay smoother to pick up an inexpensive set of levers that have the cable feed out the side, going to the second set of levers. It's not neccessary to do so, just would fit under the wrap easier.

As for the stem, I'll have them fit me first and make them order the stem if we feel I need one, then the burden is on them to find the right one.

I'll check out the thumb shifters. Link please?Uh-oh ... I see a problem with your use of nomenclature ...

Generally, when referring to the brakes, the actual calipers (that close on the braking surface -- rim, disc, drum) are what people refer to and not the levers. So, just because you are stepping on the pedal inside the car & saying that you are "stepping on the brakes" doesn't mean that the levers are referred to as the brakes on a bicycle ... brake levers, yes -- brakes, no, when referring to just the levers.

There are advantages to "aero" style brake levers where the housing is under the handlebar tape ... but, just off hand, I do NOT recommend you get EITHER of the new levers at this point in time ... they are probably an unnecessary expense which you can address later AFTER you get some miles in ...

Rather than gettiing what I presume you are referring to as a set of auxlliary brake levers used in CX & touring, you may simply want a FLAT, "mountain bike" handlebar + non-V-brake MTB brake levers ...

Putting FLAT bars on your bike is either THE-perfect-OR-an-imperfect solution to your bike "fit" problems ... and, you would not have to modify the clamp on the thumb shifters!

As far as the thumb shifters, well I see you haven't waded through the eBay waters, yet:

http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/da/0e/ea29_1.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Sunrace-Bike-Friction-Thumb-Shifters_W0QQitemZ360023823947QQihZ023QQcategoryZ42330QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$10 + http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif~$7 shipping ... this set is FRICTION on both levers (some are INDEXED on the right with no indication that they can be toggled to FRICTION-mode).

Your shop should be able to order these -- figure that if they only charge $20-or-less, then that's a good alternative. More than $20, and adding in the sales tax, and you're probably better off getting them through the eBay listing.

There are others -- input "thumb shifters" in eBay's search box OR click on this link:

http://search.ebay.com/THUMB-SHIFTERS_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40

NB: You will, as I stated before, need to "enlarge" the clamp ...

You will still need downtube cable stops, regardless, which will be attached where your downtube shifters are located ...

SAVE your old bars/stem/levers/shifters ... either to "restore" the bike to the way it is, now, or to re-sell on eBay/wherever.

Hey kdelong,

Thanks for the link to the Competitive Cyclist Fit Calculator.

Guss what? Even looking at the French fit, my seat tube is 2.5-3 cm tall for me, and that is at the highest range. It's 5.5 cm tall for a competitive fit. Stem length is too long also. I could replace the stem but the seat tube ....... no.

Ebay it is, in a week or two.

Thanks to all for all the help, I'll sell this and (yes, I know I won't get one as nice without spending big cash) I'll eventually pick up something else that is a more appropriate size.

Was in NYC this week for the Eric Clapton/Steve Winwood show at the Garden.

Saw tons of Bianchis, Fujis, etc that had been converted to single speed for getting around Manhattan. Now it makes sense.