training for new racer

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I have a couple of questons, I am a newer rider and have only been riding seriously for about a year. I raced mountain bikes with my college this fall in Cs then Bs and did alright in cat 5 cross but am now looking to prep for road season in the spring. I have always just gone out and ridden just to get base miles in, and ussualy ride around 18 mph solo or 20 in a group for about 1.5- 2.5 hours. What training should i be doing(base, intervals,...) to be prepared for march racing? Is cross traing with running effective.I will not be able to ride for 3 weeks in late december, so will increasing my running help at all? Thanks for your help.

basically, you need to increase your aerobic engine:
that means intervals I'm afraid!

the fabled 2x20mins (either on the road or a turbo) at a pace you could sustain for an hour will increase your engine size.
The nearer to a the race, start working on your top end: 4 or 5 x5mins flat out.

Good luck!

I too am wanting to start training for racing, i've been putting in the mileage, but haven't done any real intervals or anything. I Did one where i would sprint flat out for 15 seconds, spin 30 and repeat and i did about 12 of them. But the 2x20s dont seem like its enough intervals to do real good? Basically i figure out my avg speed for the fastest i could go in an hour and go that speed for 20 minutes?(i dont have a power meter). And how much rest do you get inbetween intervals?

believe me they are very taxing and take a lot out of you if you do them right.
Normally you have 5 mins or so rest between each session.

The 2x20's are the bread and butter for your aerobic engine. With out this basic training, you're not going to keep up with the pack. It doesn't have to be 2x20 of course. It could be 2x30 or 1x40 . It's just that most people find a 20 min interval on a turbo about as much as one can cope with in one go.:)

It's just that most people find a 20 min interval on a turbo about as much as one can cope with in one go.:)
a turbo being a trainer? I cant stand to be on it more than 45 minutes. Thanks for the help

...I Did one where i would sprint flat out for 15 seconds, spin 30 and repeat and i did about 12 of them. But the 2x20s dont seem like its enough intervals to do real good? ...You're falling into a common trap of thinking you've got to ride hard and anaerobically to improve your speed and power. That approach won't get you far. You first need to build a strong aerobic core as kant314 keeps suggesting. Get that tuned up with several months of steady long intervals like the 2x20s suggested or even longer sustained efforts. Your sustainable power will improve and with it your sustainable speed. Once you've taken that pretty far and developed a strong aerobic base then you might start thinking about the anaerobic work you've been doing.

Basically you need to target specific metabolic processes in your training. Focus on 30 second max. effort sprints and you'll be focusing on your ability to process sugar in the absence of oxygen. You might get pretty good at 30 second to minute and a half efforts but you'll be doing nothing for your aerobic metabolism and that's what you've got to rely on to hold pace with the leaders or climb near the front of the group. A great anaerobic kick can help during those crunch times in a race, but if you don't have a well tuned aerobic core you won't be there at the end and all the kick or sprint in the world won't help.

Do those 2x20s or other variations on SST and L4 training to tune up your sustainable power. This isn't easy mindless miles, it's focused efforts that will have you working hard, breathing deeply and is hard steady work. Do this regularly for several months and you'll see progress and become one of those guys that goes fast without even seeming to work all that hard at it. Focus on your existing short intervals and you might get faster for short efforts but you'll still suffer in steady fast races and long climbs and more than likely end up riding off the back if the pace picks up for more than a minute or two.

Good luck,
Dave

So should I be doing 2x20s 3 to 4 times a week mixing it in with longer rides starting now and what heart rate should these be at since i am not training with power.

very informative post davey, thanks.

So should I be doing 2x20s 3 to 4 times a week mixing it in with longer rides starting now and what heart rate should these be at since i am not training with power.The answer could be yes or no. It probably depends where you are now fitness wise. I can do 3 lots 2 x 20's per week and do two three hour tempo rides week after week now. However, two years ago when I first began 2 x 20's that training regime would have fatigued me quite quickly. I'm sure Dave or Alex will pop along and explain training loads to further elucidate my point. Check out No 4 here http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp
Also do a search on 2 x 20's/ Ft theres loads of stuff on it

The answer could be yes or no. It probably depends where you are now fitness wise. I can do 3 lots 2 x 20's per week and do two three hour tempo rides week after week now. However, two years ago when I first began 2 x 20's that training regime would have fatigued me quite quickly. I'm sure Dave or Alex will pop along and explain training loads to further elucidate my point. Check out No 4 here http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp
Also do a search on 2 x 20's/ Ft theres loads of stuff on itThat about sums it up. To quote "Dr Cog":

The more you do, the more you can do.

That mean both in terms of duration and intensity.

So i did my first 2x20 today at the gym on a stationary bike since it was kind of crappy out. I ran there about mile at an easy pace and then warmed up for about 10 minutes steadly incresing HR. I did the first 20 at a HR around 185 it was hard but not that hard and i could probally go longer i spun easy for 5 minutes and then started the second I turned the resistance up one level and did the same at about HR 187. After the 20 minutes, i slowed down for 5 minutes. I was not totaly exerted and continued to ride for 15 more minutes at a HR of 170. My cadence was 105. Are these the correct HR ranges becuase i do not know my LT HR? It didn't seem as hard I as I was expecting. Am I doing something wrong? could the HRM on the bike be wrong. I don't have a HRM yet but I think I underestimated the level I ussually ride at. It seems as though I have been doing these type efforts already as I have been riding with a group stronger than me for a couple of months now. Every other ride it seems that I am at L4 for at least 30 minutes. So what I am asking is should I up my HR for these 2x20s, increase time, or just continue? How do I find LT HR?

So i did my first 2x20 today at the gym on a stationary bike since it was kind of crappy out. I ran there about mile at an easy pace and then warmed up for about 10 minutes steadly incresing HR. I did the first 20 at a HR around 185 it was hard but not that hard and i could probally go longer i spun easy for 5 minutes and then started the second I turned the resistance up one level and did the same at about HR 187. After the 20 minutes, i slowed down for 5 minutes. I was not totaly exerted and continued to ride for 15 more minutes at a HR of 170. My cadence was 105. Are these the correct HR ranges becuase i do not know my LT HR? It didn't seem as hard I as I was expecting. Am I doing something wrong? could the HRM on the bike be wrong. I don't have a HRM yet but I think I underestimated the level I ussually ride at. It seems as though I have been doing these type efforts already as I have been riding with a group stronger than me for a couple of months now. Every other ride it seems that I am at L4 for at least 30 minutes. So what I am asking is should I up my HR for these 2x20s, increase time, or just continue? How do I find LT HR?To get a general idea of your 'threshold heart rate' why don't you try a few more 2 x20's, going as hard as you can for the duration, and then get an average figure. Then go back to AC's chart and determine the training zone. But remember that heart rate monitoring can be a tricky business because it can be affected by any number of factors: lack of sleep, dehydration,fatigue, improved fitness, illness etc. Oh and we can't forget the cardiac drift. I've borrowed Alex's post from another forum which illustrates the later perfectly

Here are a couple from an athlete.
This one is a 60-min "Hardish Tempo" or "Sweet Spot" or upper Coggan Level 3 workout which I call Moderate Intensity Endurance Training.
Power is the yellow line and heart rate is the red line. The dotted horizontal yellow line is the average power for the effort (224 watts) which was 88% of this rider's 1hr Time Trial power.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/TempoWorkout.jpg
You will note it was a steady power effort (the jumpiness of the power line is normal) and that heart rate drifts upwards the whole time through the interval.
This next one is the classic 2 x 20-min time trial interval, this time ridden at 104% of 1-hr TT power (it was a break through level effort). Again note the red HR curve during the effort.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/TTWorkout.jpg
If you pace your intervals or longer endurance efforts by heart rate and attempt to keep HR constant, then your power will constantly fall in order to maintain the HR. When we coach riders without a power meter, then we ensure riders understand this phenomenon and use other means as well as HR to determine intensity.
Speed on a turbo can be good, provided the tubo trainer maintains a constant resistance (many don't unfortunately). Perceived exertion is used as well but this also needs tuning as intervals often feel easy to begin with, then get hard towards the end.

a turbo being a trainer? I cant stand to be on it more than 45 minutes. Thanks for the help
Trainers can be boring to start with. But if you are serious about racing they are the best investment you can make. I use my twice a week for around 1hr 40min at first I struggled to do 1/2hr but with time and tv with a dvd player loaded with tour and spinerval disc's I began to develope training routines and interval workouts that worked for me. All my mod/high intesity workouts are on a trainer (except races of coarse and thats once every week) anyother ride I do is just a recovery ride.

So i did my first 2x20 today at the gym on a stationary bike since it was kind of crappy out. I ran there about mile at an easy pace and then warmed up for about 10 minutes steadly incresing HR. I did the first 20 at a HR around 185 it was hard but not that hard and i could probally go longer i spun easy for 5 minutes and then started the second I turned the resistance up one level and did the same at about HR 187. After the 20 minutes, i slowed down for 5 minutes. I was not totaly exerted and continued to ride for 15 more minutes at a HR of 170. My cadence was 105. Are these the correct HR ranges becuase i do not know my LT HR? It didn't seem as hard I as I was expecting. Am I doing something wrong? could the HRM on the bike be wrong. I don't have a HRM yet but I think I underestimated the level I ussually ride at. It seems as though I have been doing these type efforts already as I have been riding with a group stronger than me for a couple of months now. Every other ride it seems that I am at L4 for at least 30 minutes. So what I am asking is should I up my HR for these 2x20s, increase time, or just continue? How do I find LT HR?Heartrate is relative. High for you may be low for me and vice-versa. My heartrate generally runs faster than the average person. The numbers you are quoting seem fairly high to me. The heartrate monitor on the stationary bike may be wrong. You may want to buy your own monitor and figure out your LT HR as suggested by one of the other posters. Or, you could go by perceived effort. These intervals should be done at a range of about 7 or 8 out of 10. Not very scientific. But it gets you in the ballpark.

I Did my first 2x20 yesterday on a trainer, while i dont have a power meter or hear rate monitor(yet), but i kept at a constant cadence and resistance. i clocked my HR at 160ish at 10 minutes into the first and the same 10 minutes into the 2nd. Towards the end of the 2nd interval it went up to about 170. I'm only 18, does that sound like where i should be?

I Did my first 2x20 yesterday on a trainer, while i dont have a power meter or hear rate monitor(yet), but i kept at a constant cadence and resistance. i clocked my HR at 160ish at 10 minutes into the first and the same 10 minutes into the 2nd. Towards the end of the 2nd interval it went up to about 170. I'm only 18, does that sound like where i should be?your heart rate is simply your heart rate. Don't get caught up in old school myths such as people psyching you out by having a lower heart rate or a indeed high max which someone once told me means you'll be a strong rider:confused: . See earlier posts

I don't have a power meter. I bought a fluid trainer (Kurt Kinetic) with the little gizmo that converts speed to power. I then use that as my guide for the 2X20s. You might want to consider something similar to avoid the HR fluctuations. (I also have a HR monitor, but I don't use it very much because I noticed the same increasing HR shown earlier in the posted figures when I was on the trainer, and I then decided I couldn't really use that as a guide).

I also go to a spinning class on Friday night - at the spinning class, there is no feedback on speed, or power, or anything. My perception is that the intensity level is below that I use for the 2X20s. You might be in the same circumstance.

I think you need to do a bunch of 20 minute intervals (or longer) to get a feel for where your range is. Last year I did the one hour time trial thing on my trainer to peg my FTP, but I don't think I want to do that again.

I find the 2X20s difficult - something I couldn't do every day of the week, even if I wanted to. Now if only I could learn to love that trainer - I might actually gain some fitness over the winter instead of losing some. On the positive side, I am becoming less reluctant to jump on the damn thing and ride it - I think this is partly because I'm getting used to, and partly because I dropped the intensity level a bit so it doesn't "hurt" so much.

Any tips from other posters on keeping your interest up would be appreciated.

I don't have a power meter. I bought a fluid trainer (Kurt Kinetic) with the little gizmo that converts speed to power. I then use that as my guide for the 2X20s. You might want to consider something similar to avoid the HR fluctuations.
im actually getting that gizmo for christmas, cause i already have that trainer! woo hoo :D