RacerMate Computrainer vs. Tacx Fortius

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Hello all,
I'm seriously considering taking the plunge and purchasing a VR trainer (something to take the mundane out of spinning and adding a little fun). Right now I'm on the fence about which of the two trainers above might be a better choice. Price-and-feature-wise, they seem to be comparable but I'm interested in what the real people out there have to say about their experiences with either or both. I like to do a lot of homework before making a purchase of this magnitude and that's why I'm interested in hearing from non-compensated users. So how 'bout it, anyone have $0.02 to spend?

Thanks!

Hello all,
I like to do a lot of homework before making a purchase of this magnitude and that's why I'm interested in hearing from non-compensated users. So how 'bout it, anyone have $0.02 to spend?

Thanks!I went with the Fortius and love the thing. The VR mode is pretty cool and works really well. When you look at the powerfile after such a ride you can barely tell the difference from a normal road file. You really have to focus on staying within your power ranges as opposed to just spinning. Further, I have found that I end up riding much harder and longer than on a normal trainer. The only negative thing are the power readings. To be honest, I haven't spent too much time figuring this out, but the Fortius reads about 5-10% lower than my PT 2.4. However, I have heard that the PT doesn't work well with the Fortius.
In any case, I love the thing because of the fun it provides.

Do a search for the Fortius and you'll see a bunch of threads like this where people, myself included have given some pretty detailed info on the Fortius.

After finally getting to ride a Computrainer with the Ergvideos I'd lean towards the CT if you live in North America. I can't vouch for the Training software for the CT, the Fortius has a great package but limits me since I can't go over 26 MPH.

As for the Fortius and Power Average, I just did a test ride last night and it's very close to my PT now after the latest software update. It used to read about 15% lower than the PT. Makre sure to warm up the Fortius and calibrate it before doing your workout. It kinda sucks, but makes it more close to the PT. I did several long intervals at different level from 100 W to 400 W over lenghts of at least 1 minute. I was within 5 watts or so of the Fortius and the PT.

for what it's worth, i have heard that the TACX has a problem with wattage accuracies as the cadence gets low but the wattage gets high. i am a devoted CT user, though. It's the best money i've ever spent. Well, maybe that and college tuition.

To be honest, I haven't spent too much time figuring this out, but the Fortius reads about 5-10% lower than my PT 2.4. However, I have heard that the PT doesn't work well with the Fortius.
In any case, I love the thing because of the fun it provides.By design, the PT doesn't know/care what it attached to (as long as that device doesn't put out massive RF interference), so the problem is almost certainly with the Fortius, which doesn't have anywhere near as accurate a power measurement technology as the PT.

By design, the PT doesn't know/care what it attached to (as long as that device doesn't put out massive RF interference), so the problem is almost certainly with the Fortius, which doesn't have anywhere near as accurate a power measurement technology as the PT.
I can't get the PT to work on the Fortius using the old style receiver. The data keeps dropping. Once I switched to the new shark fin receiver, I don't have the data drop problem.

Hello all,
I'm seriously considering taking the plunge and purchasing a VR trainer (something to take the mundane out of spinning and adding a little fun). Right now I'm on the fence about which of the two trainers above might be a better choice. Price-and-feature-wise, they seem to be comparable but I'm interested in what the real people out there have to say about their experiences with either or both. I like to do a lot of homework before making a purchase of this magnitude and that's why I'm interested in hearing from non-compensated users. So how 'bout it, anyone have $0.02 to spend?

Thanks!CT = less plastic.

1300hrs on mine in five years.

Bearings are perfect.

Power within 1% of PT.

Better than sliced bread.

Were those sentences?

:D

Bearings are perfect.


:DThat is an almost perfectly constructed sentence ("The bearings?"). I don't know about the other ones.:)

The Computrainer is not 'fun.' It's a tool. Now that Hunter and the good people at CyclingPeaks are on board, it's a damn serious tool.

I never chase the silver rider. If you are looking for entertainment, you won't find it on a CT. That's my experience. I would like to hear from someone who has raced against a friend on another CT, though. That sounds like huge fun - two people racing each other on the same screen. I bought mine thinking I would be whooping it up in basements all over town. Alas, it's hard enough finding good training partners, but to find one with an extra $1,200.00 to throw around is difficult.

Anyone try a Computrainer with ErgVideo? That might be fun.

The Computrainer is not 'fun.' It's a tool. Now that Hunter and the good people at CyclingPeaks are on board, it's a damn serious tool.

I never chase the silver rider. If you are looking for entertainment, you won't find it on a CT. That's my experience. I would like to hear from someone who has raced against a friend on another CT, though. That sounds like huge fun - two people racing each other on the same screen. I bought mine thinking I would be whooping it up in basements all over town. Alas, it's hard enough finding good training partners, but to find one with an extra $1,200.00 to throw around is difficult.

Anyone try a Computrainer with ErgVideo? That might be fun.
Too bad I don't live in/near GR anymore...

I rode an hour on the CT's ErgVideo for the Tempo ride a few weeks ago. I loved it. It a great concept that you use your FTP (Threshold Power) and then the ride adjusts the resistance based on your FTP. That way my wife and I could ride the same video and the ride would be a true temp ride for each of us. Oh, and my PT was 1 W different for the average of the ride.

I really wish Tacx did this with their Ergovideo. I guess they do in a way though. The ride's they have are based on a W/kg and then you can adjust the % of the ride to get into your W/kg range. They don't tell you what the ride's W/kg is though so you have to find in on their forums.

My only complaint from my very short usage of the CT is that in the MultiRider software that's needed to use the ErgVideo, you can't save your data unless you finish the ride. The Fortius lets you save even if you don't finish the ride.

How long do the CT owners out there typically run at steep grades on the trainer? I am planning on a race up Whiteface in the spring, which is 8% grade for about 8 miles. I was thinking about the CT because it is capable of simulating much steeper grades than my I-Magic (tops out at 5%), so that I could get used to that sort of climbing effort. Even outside, I have nothing like this terrain near me. Then I read a post on the racermate forum from one of their employees that indicated they do not recommend climbs of more than two miles without a downhill to cool off the load generator. A lot of the RLV's for the Fortius feature long climbs, so it would seem Tacx is OK with this.

On the other hand, I read a lot about choppiness on the Fortius with steep grades, speed limits, etc. Not sure which is the one for me.

The online racing thing another poster mentioned above is a blast - I ride with a friend in another state who has a CT pretty regularly using NetAthlon. Down to the basement at the appointed hour, and we're online a few mornings a week. There's a pretty healthy online population and lots of group rides during the winter months. THAT breaks up the monotony. Also pretty realistic. Lots of short tough efforts in the group, etc. Great fun.

...Then I read a post on the racermate forum from one of their employees that indicated they do not recommend climbs of more than two miles without a downhill to cool off the load generator....It depends on how powerful you are, not the absolute grade. Computrainers have no problem overheating when ridden for hours at 300+ watts. That's all they do, simulate a load in watts, it only translates to grade if you ride that grade sufficiently fast and hold the power above the ability of the load unit to dissapate the accumulated heat. Even that can be mitigated with a small fan pointed at the load unit.

Sure there are some subtle differences in terms of the eddy currents induced in the braking rotor when the unit is programmed to simulate steep low speed hills. If that's a concern to you then simulate a lower angle hill and ride it in a bigger gear than you'll use during your event. The bottom line as far as your legs are concerned is the absolute power you put out and to a lesser extent the cadence you ride. Your legs don't care what gear you use to achieve that power and cadence. But I still doubt the average rider will overheat the load unit.

Anyway if you're a very fit and high category racer then you might have problems overheating the load unit. But if you set it to 8 or 10% grade and then dump down into your granny gear to spin up that grade then the absolute power requirements and heat dissapation shoudn't be a problem. So it really depends on how hard you'll ride the unit.

-Dave

It depends on how powerful you are, not the absolute grade. Computrainers have no problem overheating when ridden for hours at 300+ watts. That's all they do, simulate a load in watts, it only translates to grade if you ride that grade sufficiently fast and hold the power above the ability of the load unit to dissapate the accumulated heat. Even that can be mitigated with a small fan pointed at the load unit.

I think the point with the CT is that the faster your speed the faster the fan inside runs. So extended efforts at very low cadences and high resistance are not a great idea.

I have a CT after a year with a Tacx Flow. The CT is for someone serious about working with power the Tacx is a toy.

Not that I'm trying to be confrontational :)

I think the point with the CT is that the faster your speed the faster the fan inside runs. So extended efforts at very low cadences and high resistance are not a great idea.

I have a CT after a year with a Tacx Flow. The CT is for someone serious about working with power the Tacx is a toy.

Not that I'm trying to be confrontational :)Not at all:p My motivation for getting something else is that I'm pretty sure that the IM (Flow with a computer interface) has little bearing on reality. It won't be much help to me in what I'm trying to do.

So I'm still not clear on this. For the time being, my FTP is a whopping 270. Taking into account what Dave said, I should be OK. You said something that I've heard about the CT before, however. Their ability to dissipate heat has something to do with how fast you can make them spin. By those criteria, I guess I will be running this thing at fairly low speed for a while. Say an hour at a time or so, just for the sake of argument. Not sure if that's a problem.

Does the use of a fan skew just the reported power, or actually impact the resistance it applies? I have a PT, so I don't care too much about the former. Just being able to simulate an avg 8% grade for an hour or so while I pump less than 300 watts in is what I care about.

Thanks for any advice!

I think the point with the CT is that the faster your speed the faster the fan inside runs. So extended efforts at very low cadences and high resistance are not a great idea....Good point. I'd conveniently missed the fact that they self cool the unit and speed matters. Still heating is going to be propotional to the power that you have to dissapate and you can still program a shallower slope and simply ride it in a higher gear. That way the unit still spins relatively fast but your legs will be riding at power levels and cadences representative of steeper climbs.

-Dave

I could give that a try and see how it goes. I also posted on the RacerMate forums, and one suggestion was to ride 8-10% climbs within supported distances, interspersed with short downhills / flat sections to let the unit cool.

A combination of the two would probably be a good starting point.

Or I could drop $5k for a velotron.:eek: Of course then I'd have to buy a house too, because I wouldn't be welcome where I live anymore...

I keep a fan on the CT load unit and it works fine under low cadence and high load. Of course, it's in the basement where the temperature is lower than upstairs.

I really have become enamored with my CT as I can get erg files from Hunter Allen (http://www.trainingpeaks.com/hunter/) and excellent erg videos (www.ergvideo.com (http://www.ergvideo.com/)) where video of rides and workouts are coupled with controlled power dosage based on your FTP.

The ErgVideo videos offer road/crit rides, TTs and various short/long intervals that you can plan and organize yourself using a tool on www.intellicoach.ca (http://www.intellicoach.ca/) You build your own segments of existing rides and intervals by choosing and repeating as desired.

There is constant development for the CT by RacerMate and other developers that will keep the technology fresh for a good while to come.

I could give that a try and see how it goes. I also posted on the RacerMate forums, and one suggestion was to ride 8-10% climbs within supported distances, interspersed with short downhills / flat sections to let the unit cool.

A combination of the two would probably be a good starting point.

Or I could drop $5k for a velotron.:eek: Of course then I'd have to buy a house too, because I wouldn't be welcome where I live anymore...overheating and power droop isn't a big issue IMHO.

Over the years I've found a few things help:
1. In ergo mode select a gear that produces a wheelspeed of 35-40kph. That IME keeps the unit from overheating and also helps alleviate the 'low inertial load' feeling. Whoops forgot to include that in my "term paper" :p

2. For 3D courses, I've gravitated towards those with sustained grades of 5% or less. One fav. SST course is 50mile-5% ... max longish grade is 5%

3. For those long indoor Saturdays, I built a custom course featuring 15km grades but only at 3-3.5%. IOW grades in which I can ride tempo at 30kph. The CT stil 'feels' fine around that speed. 7-8-10% grades at 15-20kph much less so.

4. As insurance and to pretty much eliminate ergo drift, after my std. 12-15min warmup at tempo power and setting RRC, I turn on my small 6" cooling fan that's on the floor pointed right at the load gen. Using that, even in basement temps up to 20C, I get very, very little drift over the course of either hard L4 work or longish L3.

5. Wrt. ergo drift, it IS real. I was finding real power reported by the PT drifted down up to 10W over say a 1.5-2hr tempo effort 300-350W. That's not large of course - just something that I prefer to mitigate.

I have both. I ordered the Computrainer and then wanted the Tacx for real life videos as I thought it would keep me on the unit longer.

Anyhow the Computrainer works a treat and the Tacx is in the store room as it was dead on arrival (have to wait until I’m next in Europe for warranty repair). The computrainer will shortly have real life videos also.

The computrainer matches my powertap perfectly so if you do power based training, the data is representative indoor and outdoors also. Something like a Hunter plan also keeps you occupied with all the changes during the ride.

I can vouch for all the above positive comments on computrainer but I will say they need to seriously bring the design and electronics into the 21st century – I also like stuff that’s in my house to look good!


Good point. I'd conveniently missed the fact that they self cool the unit and speed matters. Still heating is going to be propotional to the power that you have to dissapate and you can still program a shallower slope and simply ride it in a higher gear. That way the unit still spins relatively fast but your legs will be riding at power levels and cadences representative of steeper climbs.

-Dave

I can vouch for all the above positive comments on computrainer but I will say they need to seriously bring the design and electronics into the 21st century – I also like stuff that’s in my house to look good!
I hear you there. It's the plight of the small business, I suppose. You can't focus on everything, and in their case they are taking care of stability at the expense of aesthetic. Only so many hours in the day, and given that, I think they made the right choice...

Lots of great advice from everyone here. Sounds like the CT is the way to go. I was reading on the Tacx forum, and many of the users riding RLVs with long climbs (Alp d'Huez, etc.) were experiencing loss of resistance and overheating warnings, suggesting that the Fortius suffers from the same issue.

If I do take a crack at the longer, steeper climbs, I'll get a fan to point at the LG for those rides. From what I gather, people point it at the side with the sticker, which is where the air inlet is.