Britain Humiliated Internationally?

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Images of the British naval personnel, waving to the crowds in Iran, laden with goody bags has stunned the media throughout the globe. Put simply, it looks bad. I mean, John Rambo in Vietnam this most certainly ain't.
I quote a few comments:

"The international image of Britain as Churchillian bulldog has for ever been replaced by this bunch of hapless stooges grinning and waving for the cameras like contestants cosying up to Leslie Crowther in the final frames of The Price Is Right.
The game's up. Look, I don't blame the unfortunate human ingredients in this pawn cocktail. They were only obeying orders - which, ludicrously, amount to 'surrender first and apologise later'.
The rules of engagement these days have been rinsed in so much fabric softener that I'm astonished our troops are even allowed to carry weapons any more.
The hostages aren't to blame for this craven and humiliating episode in our history. Despite Tony Blair's bellicose posturing on the international stage, the reality is that the Army, Navy and Air Force are crippled by underfunding.
Let me reiterate, I don't hold the hostages responsible for what happened to them, or how they responded while in captivity. They and thousands more like them do a brave, thankless job on our behalf.
But I despair at what their ordeal and the response to it tells us about the kind of country we have become.
After ten years of Tony Blair, Britain is now a neutered, international laughing stock. The United Nations and our EU 'partners' hold us in contempt.
The feminisation of our entire society has utterly destroyed whatever credibility and moral fibre we ever had. The emotional incontinence which flooded the country at the time Lady Di popped her Jimmy Choos is now our stock in trade.
I wanted to retch when I saw the father of one of the captured marines cuddling his wife and sobbing on live television in front of a tree festooned with yellow ribbons.
Of course he's got every right to be upset, but he shouldn't be sharing it with Sky News. His other son looked deeply embarrassed, as if a dog had just peed up against his leg. It was the most skin-crawling moment I have seen since The Mellorphant Man paraded his family in front of a five-bar gate.
And What about the outside broadcasts from assorted pubs around the country, as various friends and relatives showed their solidarity by drinking themselves senseless?
All that was missing was Nero and his Stradivarius.
The broadcast media covered the whole affair as if it were an episode of Big Brother. Gormless women cackled away about the hostages in the same silly psychobabble as they discuss 'relationship ishoos'.
One reporter actually moaned about having to give up his seat in business class to make room for the returning heroes. This was hardly the last plane out of Saigon. The hostages were even given 'sweets and souvenirs' by their captors before being sent on their way. Imagine leaving Stalag 13 with a Lucky Bag.
If you come across a miniature bronze statue of I'madinnerjacket and a hand-tooled copy of the Koran as a job lot on eBay in a couple of years, you'll know one of the hostages has fallen on hard times.
I'm delighted they are home safely, but as I wrote on Tuesday, God knows what the generation who went through World War II would make of it. "We now take you live to Colditz where Captain Pat Reid and a group of captured RAF pilots are giving a press conference, thanking Herr Hitler for his hospitality and apologising for trespassing in German airspace."
Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?"

"The international image of Britain as Churchillian bulldog has for ever been replaced by this bunch of hapless stooges grinning and waving for the cameras like contestants cosying up to Leslie Crowther in the final frames of The Price Is Right.
That is funny, but it seems a little harsh to blame some unfortunate soldiers who got caught for the fallout of a war that has been a fark up from the very beginning. I think it's Blair that has diminished Britain's standing in the world. Chamberlain just looked the other way, Blair would have joined the invasion of Poland.

I don't get Blair. Bush is a religious nutter who has said he thinks God wants him to be president. When someone like that starts an unprovoked war it should scare the hell out of everyone. For the life of me I cannot understand why Blair would follow him.

For the life of me I cannot understand why Blair would follow him.It doesn't take a degree in rocket science (or political science) to know why: Blair wants UK's cut of the spoils once the Big Oil corps get their meat hooks into Iraq. It will be similar to the deal that was cut over Iran after Mosaddeq was ousted by the US & UK in 1953.

"Been there, done that." "Play it again, Sam." "Nothing to see here, move along please." ad nauseum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh

This is maybe bringing us into a fresh topic concerning the rights and wrongs of Bush's war.
I agree we really have no business being anywhere near Iran's waters so far as Iraq is concerned since Iraq never had those WMD.
Nope, what I was driving at was Britain's image as a military power and the message Argentina may have picked up from that latest debacle.
I don't blame the armed personnel for going along with those confessions and apologies in order to get back home safe and sound but did they have to do it so well? There are images of them laughing, joking, waving at the cameras and the only conclusion you can draw is they must have been treated quite well in the first place. In fact, I have serious doubts these so-called solitary confinement sessions ever took place and that the whole thing was a contrived tale to cover up what amounted to an incident of international embarrassment.
I'm no fan of of Iran at all but I have to give credit where credit is due. Iran seems to have made a total laughing stock out of Blair and most definitely exposed Blair for what he is - a toothless poodle who harangues the world stage as a "war leader" under the coat-tails of Bush.
In many ways it's kind of sad. There you have Blair passing himself off at the U.N. as a world power yet I fear if Britain had to stand alone against Iran we'd lose.
I think it sent out an awful message.

That is funny, but it seems a little harsh to blame some unfortunate soldiers who got caught for the fallout of a war that has been a fark up from the very beginning. I think it's Blair that has diminished Britain's standing in the world. Chamberlain just looked the other way, Blair would have joined the invasion of Poland.

I don't get Blair. Bush is a religious nutter who has said he thinks God wants him to be president. When someone like that starts an unprovoked war it should scare the hell out of everyone. For the life of me I cannot understand why Blair would follow him.

It seems odd to me the lessons of Vietnam haven't been learned. To occupy a country in the face of a popular nationalistic uprising is very hard to do. Neither is the U.S. particularly good at ground wars.
The question is how long can Bush go on? His latest plan for a troop surge has been left exposed by a new attack on the Parliament and the Democrats are gaining more and more ground.
Simply put, Bush hasn't delivered and time is running out.
As they say, "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science (or political science) to know why: Blair wants UK's cut of the spoils once the Big Oil corps get their meat hooks into Iraq. It will be similar to the deal that was cut over Iran after Mosaddeq was ousted by the US & UK in 1953.

"Been there, done that." "Play it again, Sam." "Nothing to see here, move along please." ad nauseum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh

This is maybe bringing us into a fresh topic concerning the rights and wrongs of Bush's war.
I agree we really have no business being anywhere near Iran's waters so far as Iraq is concerned since Iraq never had those WMD.
Nope, what I was driving at was Britain's image as a military power and the message Argentina may have picked up from that latest debacle.
I don't blame the armed personnel for going along with those confessions and apologies in order to get back home safe and sound but did they have to do it so well? There are images of them laughing, joking, waving at the cameras and the only conclusion you can draw is they must have been treated quite well in the first place. In fact, I have serious doubts these so-called solitary confinement sessions ever took place and that the whole thing was a contrived tale to cover up what amounted to an incident of international embarrassment.
I'm no fan of of Iran at all but I have to give credit where credit is due. Iran seems to have made a total laughing stock out of Blair and most definitely exposed Blair for what he is - a toothless poodle who harangues the world stage as a "war leader" under the coat-tails of Bush.
In many ways it's kind of sad. There you have Blair passing himself off at the U.N. as a world power yet I fear if Britain had to stand alone against Iran we'd lose.
I think it sent out an awful message.


Several issues.

I think Iran came out of the entire episode more favourably.
They captured the 15 personnel.
One can argue the legitimacy of their action - given that the area in which they were captured is under dispute (between Iran and Iraq).
Iran handed these people back as a goodwill gesture.
Even if it wasn't a goodwill gesture, international opinion perceives it as such.

What cannot be disputed is that these people did not endure physical hardship - as in the case of the hostages taken in Lebanon (John McCarthy/Terry Waite etc).
Then their selling of their stories to the press compounds the mess that was created.

Yes, I find it strange Iran treated these folks with far more respect than many Iraqis were treated. Could you imagine the reaction if those prisoners had been paraded in front of cameras on a dog leash? I think the truth is they were laughing and joking because they were clearly not under as much stress as the authorities would like us to believe.
Not that I'm any fan of Iran as such. I just think Iran is being hemmed in and nervous over all these troops so we really ought to pull out of the region, negotiate and end this sorry mess.

Several issues.

I think Iran came out of the entire episode more favourably.
They captured the 15 personnel.
One can argue the legitimacy of their action - given that the area in which they were captured is under dispute (between Iran and Iraq).
Iran handed these people back as a goodwill gesture.
Even if it wasn't a goodwill gesture, international opinion perceives it as such.

What cannot be disputed is that these people did not endure physical hardship - as in the case of the hostages taken in Lebanon (John McCarthy/Terry Waite etc).
Then their selling of their stories to the press compounds the mess that was created.

It seems odd to me the lessons of Vietnam haven't been learned. ...
Simply put, Bush hasn't delivered and time is running out.Of course the Neo Cons know the lesson of Vietnam. They just don't care. They're in Iraq for the money and power that controlling Iraq's resources will bring them, along with having permanent military bases smack in the middle of the Mid East - and to hell with whomever doesn't like it. It's good old-fashioned imperialism, plain and simple, something that England can certainly understand.

As H. Kissinger and others of his ilk have said, the "lesson of Vietnam" was that they pulled out too early. :rolleyes:

As soon as the Iraqi gov't ratifies the recent "legislation" foisted upon them by BuchCo, which gives lucrative PSA's to US & UK oil corps, then Bush will indeed have succeeded.