Hilary Clinton

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Go on, tell me you wouldn't vote for this face.

Go on, tell me you wouldn't vote for this face.Eh, not bad, but I think these two are sexier:

Eh, not bad, but I think these two are sexier:


Hey,that's not fair. This is Hills' thread and you are trying to upstage her.
I cry foul!

would i vote hillary, NO.
as for why, she is quite the generic characteristic choice that reflects the democrat party, for all their purported differences, the net result is they give bush 50%+, and this, along with their allegience to the special interests which supprt them, means a vote for hillary is in reality just a vote for your favorite pro-war, pro-billionaire, pro-bush candidate.

if anyone thinks this not the fact, have a go at convincing us in substantive rather than symbolic terms.


HC announced her candidacy for the 2008 Democrat Presidential race.

How will she fare?
Will she get the nomination?
Would you vote for her?
Would you not vote for her?
Why would you vote/not vote for her?
If she does get the nomination - would America elect her as President?

Lim, John Edwards was the vp candidate who spoke out about such things as preferential treatment for the priveleged, the struggle for working people faced with economic classiscm, the continuing fall of the middle class, directly alluding to what we have in the us with the bush cabal and their silver spoon constituents.
he was quite outspoken and i am sure abrasive to the point of being a liability for those who fear confronting these realities.

unfortunately, when a candidate here in the us goes big, like for pres, they tend to abandon all progressive stance, just look at obama and his purging of any controversial anti-bush sentiment as he tries to work towards appealing to the muddled "middle", meaning turing his back on substantive changes in so many areas...




John Edwards seems to be a bright guy - but I don't know enough about him to comment either way.

Suffice to say - whoever gets the job, they will have been placed in an invidious position by the current incumbents policies.

would i vote hillary, NO.
as for why, she is quite the generic characteristic choice that reflects the democrat party, for all their purported differences, the net result is they give bush 50%+, and this, along with their allegience to the special interests which supprt them, means a vote for hillary is in reality just a vote for your favorite pro-war, pro-billionaire, pro-bush candidate.

if anyone thinks this not the fact, have a go at convincing us in substantive rather than symbolic terms.Exactly.

Lim, John Edwards was the vp candidate who spoke out about such things as preferential treatment for the priveleged, the struggle for working people faced with economic classiscm, the continuing fall of the middle class, directly alluding to what we have in the us with the bush cabal and their silver spoon constituents.
he was quite outspoken and i am sure abrasive to the point of being a liability for those who fear confronting these realities.

unfortunately, when a candidate here in the us goes big, like for pres, they tend to abandon all progressive stance, just look at obama and his purging of any controversial anti-bush sentiment as he tries to work towards appealing to the muddled "middle", meaning turing his back on substantive changes in so many areas... Every canidate has big interests behind them....... What would a "substantive change" in this country be????

The "silver spoon constituents"..... Using words like that show the direction I imagine you would want this country to go......

The "muddled middle class."

"preferential treatment"

"progressive stance."

Nice words...... but basically not a reality....
The real world moves forward. I look around my town and see the McMansions going up and feel sorry for the "muddled middle class" that are building them..... Here in America we have people who can only afford one jacuzzi per floor. They could afford 2, but they realize they must have a car for every member of the family...

The solution to this is to try and bring down those who "have." Who do they think they are? Just because they are the ones who invest money to make money...... And employ people along the way...... Let's hang them.....

I had to hear this crap for years in the bar when the college professors hung out there. They wanted to level the playing field...... Until it was suggested that "tenure" was an outdated concept and that in order to make further education affordable for the masses, it must be eliminated.......That education would be enhanced with the elimination of tenure.

I am so tired of hearing about the "financially abused" people in America......


By the way, no one really payed attention to Edwards platform in 2004. No one everpays attention to the VP.....

Lim, John Edwards was the vp candidate who spoke out about such things as preferential treatment for the priveleged, the struggle for working people faced with economic classiscm, the continuing fall of the middle class, directly alluding to what we have in the us with the bush cabal and their silver spoon constituents.
he was quite outspoken and i am sure abrasive to the point of being a liability for those who fear confronting these realities.

unfortunately, when a candidate here in the us goes big, like for pres, they tend to abandon all progressive stance, just look at obama and his purging of any controversial anti-bush sentiment as he tries to work towards appealing to the muddled "middle", meaning turing his back on substantive changes in so many areas...

Thanks for this.

if it's any consolation (and I'm sure it isn't) the same situation arises here.
When they're seeking election, they talk about all the progressive things that they intend to do if they get elected.
Unfortunately as soon as they get in to office - it's "sod that - lets stick with the status quo" (and I'm not referring to the three chord maestro's Parfitt and
Rossi!)

Sge looks so pristine you wonder if she's ever broken a sweat in her life. I hope Obama gets in. He comes across as sincere and pragmatic.
As for old Lurch, he's not running this time round.

Most Dems do not like Hillary b/c she's seen as a pandering jack-ass. She doesn't have core Progressive values that go past being yet another corporate shill. Even Edwards said last night on Olberman that she hasn't admitted her vote for the Iraq invasion was wrong, and her subsequent cheerleading for the War on Terra. Basically, she's been a female Lieberman. Her health care scheme in the early 90's was an attempted handout to the insurance industry and a slap in the face to unions.

But, the mass media will continue to shove her down our throats, hoping that the constant exposure will change minds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bfZ_gXCHaMw


.......

As for old Lurch, he's not running this time round.He must have bought a clue - with the million's worth of campaign donations he had left over - after not spending it on the Ohio re-count fight.

...having listened to some of the iowa show for h.c. i'm wishing russ feingold would enter the contest. wouldn't give him better than dark horse status as a candidate, but he does seem to vote what he preaches...

...having listened to some of the iowa show for h.c. i'm wishing russ feingold would enter the contest. wouldn't give him better than dark horse status as a candidate, but he does seem to vote what he preaches... As a Iowan, and living just a few hours from RFeingold's base, Madison,Wisconsin...... I think he would be as electable as NPeloski. Madison is as liberal as they come, maybe even more so then SanFran....
RFeingold would not carry his own state. Wisconsin has a Republican Gov, TThompson who is also a canidate for the Presidency.TThompson was in town yesterday and promises he is going to hit Iowa once a week until election..
I think RFeingold has too many skeletons in his closet. He seems to have a problem with the women... similar to BillClinton. Except that RFeingolds numerous wives kicked him out, unlike Hilary.
RFeingold may speak his opinion, but it carries no weight outside the coffee shops in Madison.

...as someone unlucky enough to have to live and vote in wisconsin & in a county which does not include madison, i must remind you that he has won re-election to the senate twice (and, yes, i voted for him in both of those re-election campaigns). as for his status as a liberal to the left of nancy pelosi, i would remind you that your charge is of the sean hannity variety, i.e. mostly unsupported by fact and tinted with innuendo. feingold is a "grass roots" democrat in the mold of paul simon. as for his marital history, answer me this question--why do conservatives always make this an issue except when it involves the marital lives of conservatives (ron reagan, newt gingrich, et. al.)? and, as i myself stated, i believe that he would rate dark horse status at best in a presidential race. i would venture that his word has great value in the democratic party as well as the coffee houses in madison...

...as someone unlucky enough to have to live and vote in wisconsin & in a county which does not include madison, i must remind you that he has won re-election to the senate twice (and, yes, i voted for him in both of those re-election campaigns). as for his status as a liberal to the left of nancy pelosi, i would remind you that your charge is of the sean hannity variety, i.e. mostly unsupported by fact and tinted with innuendo. feingold is a "grass roots" democrat in the mold of paul simon. as for his marital history, answer me this question--why do conservatives always make this an issue except when it involves the marital lives of conservatives (ron reagan, newt gingrich, et. al.)? and, as i myself stated, i believe that he would rate dark horse status at best in a presidential race. i would venture that his word has great value in the democratic party as well as the coffee houses in madison... I can give fact after fact that he may be in the top 3 most liberal Senators in the country. To argue anything else is simply stupid.
Let's start with this fact ......
[Cut and Paste]......
Americans For Democratic Action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_For_Democratic_Action), a liberal advocacy group which rates members of Congress on a scale of 0 to 100, with zero being completely conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism) and 100 completely liberal, gave Feingold a lifetime average rating of 98.[46] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold#_note-44) With the death of Minnesota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota)'s Senator Paul Wellstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wellstone) in 2002, this leaves Feingold tied with California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)'s Senator Barbara Boxer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Boxer) for the title of the "most liberal person" in the Senate, according to ADA.

I can go on and on with his reputation as a liberal that leans to the left. ....... Prove me wrong .......
Show me a issue on which liberalism has an agenda that RFeiggold does not support. He is an extremist in his own party.

The family value thing is as important to main stream voters as it is to the Republicans.. Go to a union hall and suggest we elect a "gay" president...... See what happens. And it does not get any more Democratic mainstream then a union hall......
It doesn't matter what I think, what the voters think or anyone else thinks about Reagan, Gingrich or anyone else. It matters what the voters think about the canidate running. If it doesn't matter, then explain what topic is discussed most often when the conversation is about Bill Clinton? On a national scale his record of marriage would be an issue...... To the voters and to himself.....
In his own words......
" Running for president would detract from that, he said, and the likely prying into his recent divorce "would dismantle both my professional life (in the Senate) and my personal life."

So if you voted for RFeingold, you should know what you voted for.Voting for a canidate is not wrong, but not knowing what the canidate stands for is........

...as someone unlucky enough to have to live and vote in wisconsin & in a county which does not include madison, i must remind you that he has won re-election to the senate twice (and, yes, i voted for him in both of those re-election campaigns). as for his status as a liberal to the left of nancy pelosi, i would remind you that your charge is of the sean hannity variety, i.e. mostly unsupported by fact and tinted with innuendo. feingold is a "grass roots" democrat in the mold of paul simon. as for his marital history, answer me this question--why do conservatives always make this an issue except when it involves the marital lives of conservatives (ron reagan, newt gingrich, et. al.)? and, as i myself stated, i believe that he would rate dark horse status at best in a presidential race. i would venture that his word has great value in the democratic party as well as the coffee houses in madison...

Feingold's profile is known over on this side of the pond.
He's depicted as a very principled man - and a man who took a stand on issues such as financing political campaigns.

...just wonderful. i agree with the policies of the man i helped re-elect & don't care for your insinuation that i am an ignorant voter. i do not agree with your attempt to lump progressive liberal democrats (they that share a common thread with the politics of bob lafollette) with the boogey-man liberal cooked up by the limbaughs of talk radio. now be a good poster and tell everyone who helped found the a.d.a. and what their spooky liberal agenda amounts to. and thank you for adding paul wellstone to the mix. it was a loss to the entire nation when minnesota's senator died on the way to a funeral instead of a fund raiser. (if anything, i should thank you for helping bring these names forward so others can research them and decide for themselves how evil they are.)

as before, you use the tactics of the right with your use of liberal as a demonising label. feingold, like wellstone and simon, is a progressive liberal. your deft use of innuendo is impressive. so gay-baiting is accepted in iowa? do you folks still burn witches when the pigs die mysteriously?

and lim, he's a principled man in the senate who tried to reform campaign financing (mccain-feingold), urged his party to refuse the soft money which finances far too many campaigns (for its corrupting influence on the government) & against sending the troops into iraq. so republicans don't like him because they can't say "well, you voted for the war." i only wish there were more liberals such as he, and fewer the political opportunists.

Feingold's profile is known over on this side of the pond.
He's depicted as a very principled man - and a man who took a stand on issues such as financing political campaigns. Lim, Lim, Lim.........

If Feingold's profile is well known in Ireland, and he is seen as a man of principles, then shame on the Bishops of Ireland.

He is at odds with what the Catholic Church is politically motivated to do in this country...
The basis of the Catholic Church is Human Rights. Feingold is a big human rights individual only if you consider abortion a canidate for human rights.... Feingold is one of the few senators that voted against the ban on partial birth abortions........

Plus Feingold is against other major componenets of what the Catholic church teaches......

So again......if Feingold was seen as a very pricipled man in Ireland, then someone needs to lok at the Cathoilic church in Ireland.

But , I believe what you see Feingold as is a man who opposes Bush. And that is what your news organizations report, but upon closer examination for what issues has put Feingold in office you would not agree that he is principled.......

Lim, Lim, Lim.........

If Feingold's profile is well known in Ireland, and he is seen as a man of principles, then shame on the Bishops of Ireland.

He is at odds with what the Catholic Church is politically motivated to do in this country...
The basis of the Catholic Church is Human Rights. Feingold is a big human rights individual only if you consider abortion a canidate for human rights.... Feingold is one of the few senators that voted against the ban on partial birth abortions........

Plus Feingold is against other major componenets of what the Catholic church teaches......

So again......if Feingold was seen as a very pricipled man in Ireland, then someone needs to lok at the Cathoilic church in Ireland.

But , I believe what you see Feingold as is a man who opposes Bush. And that is what your news organizations report, but upon closer examination for what issues has put Feingold in office you would not agree that he is principled.......


Wolf mate - the Bishops of Ireland don't have anything to do with who is/isn't viewed as being a principled politician.
The media coverage of Feingold here has been largely positive - due mainly to his stance on election funding.
Most American politicians get positive coverage here anyhow - McCain, Edwards, Clinton (H), regardless of the candidates political affiliations.

The only US politician who gets bad coverage is Bush - the good christian man that he is.

as before, you use the tactics of the right with your use of liberal as a demonising label. feingold, like wellstone and simon, is a progressive liberal. your deft use of innuendo is impressive. so gay-baiting is accepted in iowa? do you folks still burn witches when the pigs die mysteriously?

Fair warning sg: this here's wolfux you're talking to - a True Believin' Fellow Traveller of the Hard-Right Moonbats, Inc. (This forum is populated with several, though they seem to have retreated to their caves to lick their wounds since the Nov. elections.) You'll have an easier time turning lead into gold than getting him to understand facts and reason. Those just don't exist in his delusional world.

Prediction: wolfux will respond to the above comments, though he knows I have him on "ignore" and don't read his posts.