Ginseng

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Just wondered what the word on the street is for this herbal supplement.

When I was touring in NZ, there was an energy drink called Lift that contained ginseng and guarana, and I remember it raised my energy levels by about 15% on long days in the saddle I reckon.

I occasionally take a tablet of ginseng before going out for a cycle or a workout, and it certainly makes a difference. And this is just some very low grade, over the counter herbal supplement!

However, I also wonder to what extent there is a placebo effect here? Knowing I've taken it, therefore my performance 'must' be better. And then when I go out, knowing that I haven't taken it, my performance decreases.

I think there is something to ginseng. I use an energy drink that has ginseng, guarana, and green tea along with the B & C vitamins. There is no sugar nor artificial sweeteners. There is no added caffeine; only the guarana. It gives me an extra boost for several hours. If I am going to be working out or riding for 2-4 hours, I use a whole packet. If it is only going to be about 30 mins to 1 hour, I use 1/2 a packet. I find that I have more clarity using this energy drink than without.

I don't think there is a placebo effect. I believe that it is a direct response.

ginseng is good. i know of a herb that is better though- rhodiola rosea. i have used both and found rholdiola to sustain my energy levels better than ginseng. it enhances oxygen uptake in the muscle cells, reduces levels of lactic acid in the muscles, improves levels of monomines in the brain to increase motivation, reduces recovery time and has an anabolic effect. the key issues for me were the motivation and lactic acid issues. my rides comprise of 1 hour stints where i really go at the road. i find the rhodiola gives me the motivation to really go at it- it gives the necessary arousal to undertake the fast paced ride, something i find can be lacking in me compared to situations where the arousal arises as a result of competiveness (competetive sports) or a sense of responsibility and duty (team sports) or if i think i'm just running late for work or wanna get back to make a date or watch my favourite TV programme! also great for those early morning rides or when you're feeling a bit tired but want to keep up the reigeme. as my rides are under an hour long the key reason for fatigue of exercise of this duration and intensity is lactic acid build up in the muscles, and i've found the rhodiola allows me to take on big hills harder and sustain a quicker pace without the need to ease off as much. tour de france cyclists use this herb so there must be something in it. also it has been fairly widely studied as a erogogenic aid. google it. :)


alex.

To what extent are ginseng and rhodiola rosea are legal?

To what extent are ginseng and rhodiola rosea are legal?
You can check this web site out:

http://www.usantidoping.org/files/active/what/wallet_card.pdf

The parent web site is: http://www.usantidoping.org/

I couldn't find any of those two ingredients on the list.


However, USA Cycling gives this warning:

WARNING: Using any form of dietary supplement may result in a positive test for

prohibited substances leading to a suspension and/or other penalties. Vitamins,

minerals, herbs, amino acids and other dietary supplements may contain prohibited

or illegal substances that may or may not be listed on the label. Any athlete who

takes a vitamin, mineral, herb, amino acid, or other dietary supplement does so at

his or her own risk of committing a doping violation.

i don't think that any of the true adaptogenics are banned substances but make sure they are PURE. some ginseng claims to be pure but actually contains other herbs such as ginseng, which because of its high guaranine/ caffeine content is banned by some sporting governing bodies.


alex.

yeah, so i guess buy from a reputable supplier and then its all good!


alex.

i have been on ginsing for the past week or so and i have noticed a nice increase in ENDURANCE. i also used it last season, but it was off and on. i use NOW brand and consume a little over 2 grams per day (one pill at breakfast and the second pill at night). it doesnt make me stronger per se, but i can "go" longer and i feel more spirited, almost as if i can ride longer. i have read that it takes about 6-9 weeks at 2 grams/day for it to be worthwhile. im gonna try it, since it is affordable. but i'll say that even after 7-8 days, i can tell a difference.

Great idea. I can finally clear out those Ginsings gift boxes wasting space in our fridge. They're gifts to my mum but no body bothers to use them. Hehe... Never thought they have a place in cycling. :D

To what extent are ginseng and rhodiola rosea are legal?Completely legal under WADA.

Personally I found that ginseng has an immediate effect resulting in greater endurance and feeling stronger during the ride. I'd be interested in knowing about the effect of taking it for 6-9 weeks - personally, I'm slightly sceptical about developing an overdependency on any substance - even if it is just over the counter herbal supplements.

Personally I found that ginseng has an immediate effect resulting in greater endurance and feeling stronger during the ride. I'd be interested in knowing about the effect of taking it for 6-9 weeks - personally, I'm slightly sceptical about developing an overdependency on any substance - even if it is just over the counter herbal supplements.Is it an "overdependency"? You are dependent on water, essential fats, amino acids, vitamins and minerals, as well as on sleep. Why not ginseng? I have read that it should be cycled, but then there just isn't much scientific research on the stuff since a huge pharmaceutical company cannot patent it nor make a billion dollars from its sale.

I've started taking some rhodiola rosea. Whilst I've noticed a calming effect on the mind, I don't feel the stimulant effect like I do with ginseng which gives me a real lift.

The brand I'm using has:

Ingredients: One Capsule provides:

Standardised Rhodiola Rosea root extract (3% rosavins, 1% salidrozid, 40% polyphenols) 250mg, Rhodiola Rosea root powder 130mg, Vegetarian cellulose capsule 100mg, Viridian bilberry extract, alfalfa spirulina blend 30mg

Perhaps I need to take more or perhaps it's just that my personal biochemistry is more receptive to ginseng than rhodiola.

i know of a herb that is better though- rhodiola rosea. i have used both and found rholdiola to sustain my energy levels better than ginseng. it enhances oxygen uptake in the muscle cells


there is no evidence to support that.


, reduces levels of lactic acid in the muscles,


it's lactate, not lactic acid, but nonetheless, this is the *opposite* of what you would want to happen. That is lactate is a fuel, which increases as intensity increases, without it you'd fatigue quicker

it has been fairly widely studied as a erogogenic aid. google it. :)

I checked Pub-Med, not Google. No evidence to show that it is ergogenic in endurance performance

ric

Personally I found that ginseng has an immediate effect resulting in greater endurance and feeling stronger during the ride. I'd be interested in knowing about the effect of taking it for 6-9 weeks - personally, I'm slightly sceptical about developing an overdependency on any substance - even if it is just over the counter herbal supplements.

can't find any research on gingseng being ergogenic in endurance exercise either. quite a few papers showing no effect, though.

ric

I've started taking some rhodiola rosea. Whilst I've noticed a calming effect on the mind, I don't feel the stimulant effect like I do with ginseng which gives me a real lift.

The brand I'm using has:

Ingredients: One Capsule provides:

Standardised Rhodiola Rosea root extract (3% rosavins, 1% salidrozid, 40% polyphenols) 250mg, Rhodiola Rosea root powder 130mg, Vegetarian cellulose capsule 100mg, Viridian bilberry extract, alfalfa spirulina blend 30mg

Perhaps I need to take more or perhaps it's just that my personal biochemistry is more receptive to ginseng than rhodiola.
that is intersting, because i experience the opposite- i find rhodiola rosea far more stimulating than ginseng. if i take it too late in the day it stops me sleeping- i toss and turn and feel a kinda heat sensation in my muscles and all over my body and the urge to get up and do something rather than sleep.

alex.

can't find any research on gingseng being ergogenic in endurance exercise either. quite a few papers showing no effect, though.

ricAbsence of evidence (and PubMed isn't the be-all and end-all of the discussion) is not evidence of absence. Most of the studies on this stuff are weak or designed to fail. If a person feels a difference, that person may be an "outlier" on the bell curve of the research, and you'll never be able to disprove an effect in that individual unless you test that individual. Right?

Ginseng is very likely ergogenic. There are many studies.

From Bahrke MS and Morgan WP "Evaluation of the ergogenic properties of ginseng: An update":

"...while studies with animals show that ginseng, or its active components, may prolong survival to physical or chemical stress, there is generally a lack of controlled research demonstrating the ability of ginseng to improve or prolong performance in fatigued humans. In this review, we extend our earlier analysis on the potential efficacy of ginseng use in the enhancement of physical performance and modification of fatigue states. Our analysis reveals that published literature appearing since our earlier review has not resolved the equivocal nature of research evidence involving animals or humans. Also, the lack of unanimity in this research can be explained on the basis of various methodological problems such as inadequate sample size and lack of double-blind, control and placebo paradigms. In addition, the absence of acceptable approaches to the problem of 'sourcing', in concert with an absence of compliance data in human research, further complicates the interpretation of this research literature.

I checked Pub-Med, not Google. No evidence to show that it is ergogenic in endurance performance

ric
yo dude, i think you were refferring to ginseng here but anyway there are loads of studies to show the benefit of rhodiola rosea. google "rhodiola rosea" and the the econd hit gives a comprehensive guide to the herb, with each point made supported by references. check it out.

alex.

yo dude, i think you were refferring to ginseng here but anyway there are loads of studies to show the benefit of rhodiola rosea. google "rhodiola rosea" and the the econd hit gives a comprehensive guide to the herb, with each point made supported by references. check it out.

alex.

No, i was talking about rhodiola rosea, and there's no good evidence that it's an ergogenic aid (and some evidence that it does nothing).

ric

Absence of evidence (and PubMed isn't the be-all and end-all of the discussion) is not evidence of absence. Most of the studies on this stuff are weak or designed to fail. If a person feels a difference, that person may be an "outlier" on the bell curve of the research, and you'll never be able to disprove an effect in that individual unless you test that individual. Right?

Ginseng is very likely ergogenic. There are many studies.


so, show me where it is ergogenic for endurance performance. where are these studies that are peer reviewed, and used on endurance trained humans?

ric