What would be my FT if my 2 hour power is 216w?

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Like the subject says it all. I can sustain 216w for 2 hours straight. I don't even feel that much tired afterward and can recovery from the workout the next day. What would be my 1 hour power (FT) if I did go all out? My FT is 240w to 250w since May. I know I have gotten stronger because the few races I did near the end of the season I was routinely hitting 245w to 250w for my 60 min effort. Usually my 60 min race effort during March was around 220.

270+w??? I am playing with the RD "THE MONOD & SCHERRER CRITICAL POWER MODEL" file he send me. I weight about 130lb to 135lb.


Like the subject says it all. I can sustain 216w for 2 hours straight. I don't even feel that much tired afterward and can recovery from the workout the next day. What would be my 1 hour power (FT) if I did go all out? My FT is 240w to 250w since May. I know I have gotten stronger because the few races I did near the end of the season I was routinely hitting 245w to 250w for my 60 min effort. Usually my 60 min race effort during March was around 220.

Why not just ride an hour and do a FT test? then there is no guessing, or wondering.

Not now, not now. Seems a bit too unbearable to go all out for 1 hour around this time of the season. I will do that when I head to the mountain doing repeat on them at my May FT, around middle of Nov. If after two repeats (25 minutes each) my legs does not feel too tired, is possible I can push my power a bit higher.


Why not just ride an hour and do a FT test? then there is no guessing, or wondering.

Not now, not now. Seems a bit too unbearable to go all out for 1 hour around this time of the season.
I hear you, but it's really tough to estimate based on a sub-maximal effort. If you told me that your max 2-hr effort was 216w, then I might guess your FT to be around 240w. But 2 hours sub-max doesn't really give anything to go on, since there's no way to know how far sub-max you were without a maximal effort to compare it to.

For a two hour effort, I would be inclined to use NP rather than AP because at least around here it's pretty hard to go two straight hours without dealing with numerous traffic lights and such.

I'm curious about this as well, but I'm not sure there's a straighforward calculation. I believe my FTP is around 300 watts and the highest 2-hour NP I've recorded is 262 watts. But that was part of a 4.5 hour ride for which the NP was 258 watts, so it's arguably not the absolute best I could have done over two hours. Of course, riding for two full hours as hard as I could go would be pretty tough.

--Steve

P/D curves vary from person to person under FTP almost as much as they do above. So assuming a true maximal effort of 230 for 2 hr then FTP may be in the range of 245-270 (95-85%).
What was your measured threshold last time you could do 2 hr rides like that? Plus is this NP or AP- I think that for any performance test you should use AP.

So in other words- I don't know.

That was NP. AP is about 210. Have never done a straight 2 hours workout. Maybe on group rides but that's a different training load and workload. Guess why I lack endurance on longer races when the power demand of the entire race exceeds my 1 hour power output.

P/D curves vary from person to person under FTP almost as much as they do above. So assuming a true maximal effort of 230 for 2 hr then FTP may be in the range of 245-270 (95-85%).
What was your measured threshold last time you could do 2 hr rides like that? Plus is this NP or AP- I think that for any performance test you should use AP.

So in other words- I don't know.

Of course, riding for two full hours as hard as I could go would be pretty tough.
Right, and pointless for estimating FT. If the purpose is to estimate FT, then just call it quits at 1 hour... ;)

I have a similar question. Last weekend, last race of season. A 40 mile road race, some hills, but nothing terribly long/steep (central TX). Total race duration 1:46, and I was in the winning 2 man break for the final 47 minutes. Ap Np HRavg
total race 207 261 170
in break (47min) 250 280 180 best 60 min 224 267 174
(break + 13mins prior to break, which was very easy)

The delta between Ap and Np being larger over the total race is not surprising based on the nature of riding in a group of 50. And while in the break and doing more/steady work I would expect the gap to be closer, as it is.

Prior to this race I would have pegged my FTP ~ 245-250W, based on data collected since getting my PT in April. Based on this last race I am wondering if it is at least 260, as that was Np for almost 2 hours? Or perhaps even a bit higher.. clearly this was my best race effort (and finish) of the year.

Tnx.

Prior to this race I would have pegged my FTP ~ 245-250W, based on data collected since getting my PT in April. Based on this last race I am wondering if it is at least 260, as that was Np for almost 2 hours? Or perhaps even a bit higher.. clearly this was my best race effort (and finish) of the year.

Tnx.
For setting FTP I think that if it can't be/wasn't repeated then it doesn't exist. Seriously, if you raised your FTP by 20-30 watts based on this race you wouldn't be able to complete any of your workouts.

I have a similar question. Last weekend, last race of season. A 40 mile road race, some hills, but nothing terribly long/steep (central TX). Total race duration 1:46, and I was in the winning 2 man break for the final 47 minutes. Ap Np HRavg
total race 207 261 170
in break (47min) 250 280 180 best 60 min 224 267 174
(break + 13mins prior to break, which was very easy)

The delta between Ap and Np being larger over the total race is not surprising based on the nature of riding in a group of 50. And while in the break and doing more/steady work I would expect the gap to be closer, as it is.

Prior to this race I would have pegged my FTP ~ 245-250W, based on data collected since getting my PT in April. Based on this last race I am wondering if it is at least 260, as that was Np for almost 2 hours? Or perhaps even a bit higher.. clearly this was my best race effort (and finish) of the year.

Tnx.

I'd say that unless you were doing a flat-out TT on level ground while towing your breakaway companion for all of the last 47 min, your functional threshold power clearly has to be >250 W (since that's what you averaged during the break). Now is as high as 267 W? Possibly...that would make the IF for the entire race to be 0.98, which is pretty typical for an aggressively-ridden road race of that duration. To be on the safe side, though, you might bump it to 260 W for now, then repeat whatever more formal testing you used to establish the value of 245-250 W in the first place.

Prior to this race I would have pegged my FTP ~ 245-250W, based on data collected since getting my PT in April.

Presumably, you've made some (perhaps significant) gains between April and now, so it's the recent data that's the most relevant. Do you have any rides within the last month which can help support the numbers you observed during this race?



Based on this last race I am wondering if it is at least 260, as that was Np for almost 2 hours? Or perhaps even a bit higher.. clearly this was my best race effort (and finish) of the year.

I mostly agree with what Greg posted above. Trying to judge FT based on efforts picked mostly from group rides and races tends to lead to this kind of confusion since you're always having to fill in the blanks for efforts which are too short, lulls in the action between intense periods, braking and sprinting, etc.. OTOH, since you're not very confident in your FT estimate, it's likely that you're underestimating things some. If you do a lot of riding right at the limit, then it becomes pretty obvious where that limit is. Sounds like maybe you found something during this race that you don't normally tap during training, but as Greg mentioned, if you can't tap it *at will* then it's unlikely that you'll be able to complete training workouts based on that FT.

Personally, I'd suggest you go out and try to confirm the 260w FT estimate through some testing.

For setting FTP I think that if it can't be/wasn't repeated then it doesn't exist. Seriously, if you raised your FTP by 20-30 watts based on this race you wouldn't be able to complete any of your workouts.Agreed. I should add that I thought my estimate of 245-250, which I had established earlier this Summer, was perhaps a bit low as in some recent 45 min Crits I have seen Np in the 260-270 range. I had just never seen it at 260 for an effort of this length (1:45).

So another way to ask the question; is it realisitic to assume I could do an effort of almost two hours at an IF of ~ 1.05? Or is my FTP estimate too low...

Agreed. I should add that I thought my estimate of 245-250, which I had established earlier this Summer, was perhaps a bit low as in some recent 45 min Crits I have seen Np in the 260-270 range. I had just never seen it at 260 for an effort of this length (1:45).

So another way to ask the question; is it realisitic to assume I could do an effort of almost two hours at an IF of ~ 1.05? Or is my FTP estimate too low...Jeff - so am I understanding this right? Your NP for a little under two hours was 261, which would equate to an IF of 1.05?

If that's the case, your previous estimate looks a bit low. I mean straight from the book you have :

"Note that one particularly useful application of IF is to check for changes in threshold power - specifically, an IF of more than 1.05 for a race that is approximately 1 hour in duration is often a sign that the rider's threshold power is actually greater than that presently entered into the program."

Yours was over 1 hour in length!

Like the subject says it all. I can sustain 216w for 2 hours straight. I don't even feel that much tired afterward and can recovery from the workout the next day. What would be my 1 hour power (FT) if I did go all out? My FT is 240w to 250w since May. I know I have gotten stronger because the few races I did near the end of the season I was routinely hitting 245w to 250w for my 60 min effort. Usually my 60 min race effort during March was around 220.My own experience suggests that my 60MP/120MP ratio varies as a function of my fitness over a range of ~85% to ~93%. In fact, as I become more fit, my entire MP/duration curve tends to flatten. Because your 2hr ride was at the end of the season and you were probably pretty fit, I would say your FTP was probably near the upper end of the range of 232-254W.

Jeff - so am I understanding this right? Your NP for a little under two hours was 261, which would equate to an IF of 1.05?

If that's the case, your previous estimate looks a bit low. I mean straight from the book you have :

"Note that one particularly useful application of IF is to check for changes in threshold power - specifically, an IF of more than 1.05 for a race that is approximately 1 hour in duration is often a sign that the rider's threshold power is actually greater than that presently entered into the program."

Yours was over 1 hour in length!

Wow - you're a quick study! ;)

Wow - you're a quick study! ;)

My guess is that it's actually Rap using an alias :D

Wow - you're a quick study! ;)Thank you! I've gotten lots of tips - from your book and here http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

My guess is that it's actually Rap using an alias :Dha! RD wishes he was half as cute as I am.... http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif