Adult cyclist putting their kids at risk

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It is bad enough that some adult cyclists put their and other road users at risk.

But it is even worse that adult cyclists without any thought put their own children at risk.

Like the male cyclist (white t-shirt, black pants, muticolour helmet) who allow their child to stand up on the bike seat why holding his shoulder at Boundary and Vulture St West End around 1.30pm 4/8/2003.

Originally posted by kwv
It is bad enough that some adult cyclists put their and other road users at risk.

But it is even worse that adult cyclists without any thought put their own children at risk.

Like the male cyclist (white t-shirt, black pants, muticolour helmet) who allow their child to stand up on the bike seat why holding his shoulder at Boundary and Vulture St West End around 1.30pm 4/8/2003.

A woman at my Mother's church lost a 2-year-old son this way about 8 years ago, and she has been stark-raving mad ever since. It killed the kid and permanently wasted the woman. Kids belong on the back of bikes like they need heroin.

Originally posted by Black Belt
A woman at my Mother's church lost a 2-year-old son this way about 8 years ago, and she has been stark-raving mad ever since. It killed the kid and permanently wasted the woman. Kids belong on the back of bikes like they need heroin.

And what of using bikes for transportation? Are you saying then that we shoud not transport children on bikes? We should take the car?

I take my kids to and from school and other local activities all the time. They wear helmets. And they're strapped in. They probably have a bstatistically higher chance of getting a serious injury in the car.

I love to visit the Netherlands, and there it is not uncommon to see an adult with one kid on the front, another on the back of their bikes. I think it's fantastic, and cuts way back on the need for other types of transportation.

I'm pretty shocked by the statement "Kids belong on the back of bikes like they need heroin." I think kids DO need to ride on the back of bikes so they can grow up with the idea that a bicycle has a real place in our lives as a means of transportation, pleasure and sport. :)

Sara

My view is that its perfectly fine to have a kid on the back if you're riding in some park or something. But it really is butt-clenching to watch some mother riding along a 30mph road with a baby strapped in the back.

The point is that whenever you ride on the road, you take the risk and you hope that no one will hit you. Your safety is not only in your hands but also in the hands of your fellow road users.

While I am happy to take that risk for myself, I would never ever make someone else take that risk.

My view is that its perfectly fine to have a kid on the back if you're riding in some park or something. But it really is butt-clenching to watch some mother riding along a 30mph road with a baby strapped in the back.

I agree 1000%. Roads are a dangerous place. I certainly wouldn't stick my kid on the back of a bike where an overtaking 5-ton bus can pass with 1-metre clearance (as happens often on SA roads). Just plain idiotic to expose your child to that kind of risk.

Originally posted by pineapple
My view is that its perfectly fine to have a kid on the back if you're riding in some park or something. But it really is butt-clenching to watch some mother riding along a 30mph road with a baby strapped in the back.

The point is that whenever you ride on the road, you take the risk and you hope that no one will hit you. Your safety is not only in your hands but also in the hands of your fellow road users.

While I am happy to take that risk for myself, I would never ever make someone else take that risk.

And would you allow a kid to stand on the seat while holding onto your shoulders because you feel it is safe in the park ?

Originally posted by kwv
And would you allow a kid to stand on the seat while holding onto your shoulders because you feel it is safe in the park ?

I would assuming there is nothing around to collide with.

I ride with my 5 year old all the time. Sometimes he's on the "tag-along" attached to my bike but usually he's on his own bike. We stay away from cars as much as possible and I keep him as safe as I can.

I ride with him to school every AM (about a mile away) and he's the only kindergardener who rides his bike to school - everyone else drives - and many live closer than we do!

Like I said, we stay away from cars. Often we are going very slowly on a sidewalk or walking. Never do we go along busy roads close to vehicles. However he is still at risk. That is the great downside to being a parent. Your child is always at risk.

The plus side is we have some great bike riding adventures together!

Tim

Originally posted by lumpy
I would assuming there is nothing around to collide with.

I ride with my 5 year old all the time. Sometimes he's on the "tag-along" attached to my bike but usually he's on his own bike. We stay away from cars as much as possible and I keep him as safe as I can.

I ride with him to school every AM (about a mile away) and he's the only kindergardener who rides his bike to school - everyone else drives - and many live closer than we do!

Like I said, we stay away from cars. Often we are going very slowly on a sidewalk or walking. Never do we go along busy roads close to vehicles. However he is still at risk. That is the great downside to being a parent. Your child is always at risk.

The plus side is we have some great bike riding adventures together!

Tim

Yes any child or anyone is still at risk even when there is nothing around to collide with.

So the question is still there:

And would you allow a kid to stand on the seat while holding onto your shoulders because you feel it is safe in the park ?

Originally posted by pineapple

Originally posted by pineapple:

"My view is that its perfectly fine to have a kid on the back if you're riding in some park or something. But it really is butt-clenching to watch some mother riding along a 30mph road with a baby strapped in the back.

The point is that whenever you ride on the road, you take the risk and you hope that no one will hit you. Your safety is not only in your hands but also in the hands of your fellow road users.

While I am happy to take that risk for myself, I would never ever make someone else take that risk".


So Pineapple its perfectly fine to have a kid on the back (standing on the back ?) if you're riding in some park or something.

But to you it really is butt-clenching to watch some mother riding along a 30mph road with a baby strapped in the back.

C'mon, of course it's not a good idea to let your kid stand up on the back of a bike, in a park or anywhere else. I would never allow that.

But hey, what are you gonna' do? When I was a kid my parents regularly hauled us around in the back of open pick-up trucks, and we almost never wore seatbelts in the car, either. Don't think they should be crucified for it, though.

As per kids on bikes, sorry if you find it "butt-clenching" or worse than heroin, folks. I also find a number of things I see other people doing "butt-clenching". However, when your in the driver's (rider's) seat you may see things differently. If you want to judge people, go right ahead be my guest. I will continue to tote my kids on my bike, using the reason and good sense I have. I'm teaching my 7 year old how to ride on our suburban streets -- once again, using reason and good sense. And I am so proud of my kid when we're going to the pool or the store and he says "Let's not take the car, why can just ride our bikes?"

Ya, he could get hurt. So could my girl on the back. He could also get hurt from a multitude of other things, including terrorist acts in public places, taking judo lessons, running, jumping, and hopping, just about in that order. But I'm not going to keep him at home in a padded room. And I know atleast 4 couples who have lost a child in traffic accidents, only they were passengers in vehicles, not on bikes.

I guess I think life is risky business, you have to use good judgement, but you shouldn't deprive yourself of experiences or of doing things that should be done. I'm not going to take the car to take my son to judo just because some of you will have to clutch your buttocks. Statistically he has more chances of being seriously injured as a passenger in a car.

Tata!

S

What is it with all this butt clutching?

Reminds me of Basil Fawlty getting his arse busted by an american! (A classic John Cleese bit of acting).

Both expressions are foreign to me. Is there an obsession with butts, ass, arses, bums, buttocks - whatever - in the USA?

Obsessions aside ;-), one poster referred to seeing mothers toting children on the street as a "butt-clenching" (i.e. tightening of the glutomous maximus region) experience. My bad for saying "clutching," which, of course, is a whole other ball game).

And just to set the record straight, the first in the series of butt-clenching remarks came from a resident of the UK. We already have to deal with the shame of Junior as president of the U.S., I'd hate to have you Aussies thinking we're obsessed with buttocks, as well.

Cheers

OK Let's sort out this mess...

I didn't say I would be ok with a kid standing on the bike. I didn't say anything about that. I personally don't think that's a good idea but I don't believe it to be life-threatening either.

What I meant was with a kid strapped in a seat on the back of your bike, it is taking a risk to ride on the road. Having been hit full on and blown sideways bya van myself, I am now aware that the risk you take often has very little to do with how good you are on the road.

The point is that I am willing to run the risk of being knocked over, a) because it is my own body and b) because I have a decent chance of escaping with minor injuries. However, with a small child attached, if you are hit like I was, there is a chance that it will be Game Over. All I said was that I myself would not influence a child into taking that risk.

So go ahead, let your kids ride in the street if it's a reasonably quiet, slow road and there's good visibility. That's sensible enough. But don't make them. And don't strap em in and go nail the busy roads because you won't have any control over whether you get hit or not.

Oh and I said butt-clenching which I meant as an expression of fear, not to be taken too seriously. Butt-clutching is a whole other exercise, preferably to be performed with a partner.

Here, here, points all well taken, and tempus Hyundai back at'cha, pi!

Sara

Originally posted by pineapple
OK Let's sort out this mess...

I didn't say I would be ok with a kid standing on the bike. I didn't say anything about that. I personally don't think that's a good idea but I don't believe it to be life-threatening either.

What I meant was with a kid strapped in a seat on the back of your bike, it is taking a risk to ride on the road. Having been hit full on and blown sideways bya van myself, I am now aware that the risk you take often has very little to do with how good you are on the road.

The point is that I am willing to run the risk of being knocked over, a) because it is my own body and b) because I have a decent chance of escaping with minor injuries. However, with a small child attached, if you are hit like I was, there is a chance that it will be Game Over. All I said was that I myself would not influence a child into taking that risk.

So go ahead, let your kids ride in the street if it's a reasonably quiet, slow road and there's good visibility. That's sensible enough. But don't make them. And don't strap em in and go nail the busy roads because you won't have any control over whether you get hit or not.

Oh and I said butt-clenching which I meant as an expression of fear, not to be taken too seriously. Butt-clutching is a whole other exercise, preferably to be performed with a partner.

I hear what you all are saying about exposing kids to needless danger, but....

Safety, safety, safety. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I suppose. I draw it here, you draw it there, someone else...wherever. There are lots of things people do that I would never dream of, but I decided I just can't worry about that. Life is short. You do the best you can and maybe by not being to preachy or too extreme you set an example that will tempt someone to follow. I took both my boys riding when younger. We did our best to avoid what traffic we could, but we didn't let it stop us from going where we wanted. We obeyed the laws and acted like we belonged wherever we were. It was probably more dangerous than riding in a car, but also a lot more fun.

Staying home in front of the TV would have been safer than all the dangers involved in living an active lifestyle, right? Kids get killed swimming and playing football all of the time. They fall off of swingsets and out of trees, they break through thin ice. They overheat and die during adult-supervised practice sessions. Safer to just stay home, sure...unless you count the possible obesity, heart and blood pressure problems, diabetes, etc. that they might develop later as the result of establishing unhealthy habits as youth. Quality of life counts as much as quantity.

Besides, I've yet to read a truly definitive report that establishes that heroin use by children is really all that harmful.....

Why cannon, how very politically uncorrect of you. Blatant disregard for overprotecting your young ones? How could you expect them to grow up with the proper amount of fear and trepidation? ;-)

No, your post is very well put, you're quite right that we all have to draw the lines somewhere, but we don't all have to draw them at the same place. No matter what popular opinion would have us believe.

Should something horrible happen, there will always be those who point fingers and blame. Whether the kid was on a bike, in a car, in his bed, or at the pool. When my son was about 4 I took him to the circus. I was holding his hand as we were going down the bleachers for popcorn, and all of a sudden, the kid just dropped through the bleachers and fell on his back to the ground about 6 feet below. The riser on the step was missing, and he slipped through the hole in the back.

The people we were there with were sitting down at the time, and after collecting my son and returning to our seats (he was shaken but fine), they told me that several people who'd seen what had happened were saying stuff like "She should have grabbed him, why didn't she hold on to him? I would never have let that happen to my kid".

I could have lost my son walking down a set of bleachers and public opinion would have been pinned the fault squarely on my back. As a parent you just have to decide what risks you think are worth taking, and if anything ever should happen, ya, you'll regret it for the rest of your life. But if you never take any risks that are worth taking with your kids, they'd miss out on too much.

Damn the bubble wrap, we're going for a ride (to pick up some heroin of course, apparently for children it's the next-best thing to riding a bike)!

Originally posted by kwv
Yes any child or anyone is still at risk even when there is nothing around to collide with.

So the question is still there:

And would you allow a kid to stand on the seat while holding onto your shoulders because you feel it is safe in the park ?

Sure why not? As long as there is nothing to collide with. It sounds like fun. My 5 year old has been on 2 wheels since 3.5. He regularly rides 12 mile rides with me and is quite adept at riding with no hands. He also is a pretty good horseman and has gone glider riding with me over Lake Tahoe. Life is for living - and without bubble wrap. However I keep him safe and he always wears a helmet and we stay away from cars.

Do you have kids kwv?

Tim

Originally posted by cannondahler
I hear what you all are saying about exposing kids to needless danger, but....

Safety, safety, safety. The line has to be drawn somewhere, I suppose. I draw it here, you draw it there, someone else...wherever. There are lots of things people do that I would never dream of, but I decided I just can't worry about that. Life is short. You do the best you can and maybe by not being to preachy or too extreme you set an example that will tempt someone to follow. I took both my boys riding when younger. We did our best to avoid what traffic we could, but we didn't let it stop us from going where we wanted. We obeyed the laws and acted like we belonged wherever we were. It was probably more dangerous than riding in a car, but also a lot more fun.

Staying home in front of the TV would have been safer than all the dangers involved in living an active lifestyle, right?

... (snip)...


Bingo! Bravo! There is still hope for humankind!

I get a little tired of everyone with a child trying to convince everyone else that they're a more fit parent because they would never do this or expose their child to that. It's pathetic and disgusting.

Will people ever learn that this is exactly how parenting will eventually become more a function of government than parents? Everyone wants to make a law. Children aren't really human they're apparently something more precious than adults, (whom I always thought were the grown up form of children.) They aren't allowed to be exposed to the world because the world is a dangerous place and only adults should be exposed to danger, blah, blah, blah.

(Sounds like a rant doesn't it?)

Anyway, I'm completely behind you on this one, cannondahler. People should make choices for their own children and not for the children of anyone else. If someone sees something they don't like, they should feel free to dislike it but they should have no more say about how someone else raises their children than that person should about how they raise their's. There is another thread on the forum dealing with the Jacko/Steve Irwin children "incidents" that stems from the same kind of parental, over-protective instincts gone awry.

Children are a part of the world and should be a part of their parent's world as well. Some people make better parents than others and this will always be the case even if you mandate government-ruled child day-care facilities and require parenting classes before issuance for a license to breed. Some children will have a better shot at life than others based on the kind of parents they have. That's just a fact of life.

I'd rather see children exposed to some reasonable level of danger than to see them coddled, nurtured and so hidden from the realities of life that as adults they can't handle the slightest emotional trauma without requiring years of professional counselling. The world is a real place with real dangers and real joys. Often the dangers and the joys share some space so one must do the best they can to reap the joys while taking what they consider to be reasonable precautions against the dangers and actually experience life!

Originally posted by Black Belt
Kids belong on the back of bikes like they need heroin. [/B]

OMG, reading through I spotted your comment and it had to respond.

Years ago now I was sitting waiting for my Doctors appointment when a well known local junkie cycled up with his child on the back of his bike. I watched curiously and then saw him leave clutching his methadone dose for the day. Off they both went again with me sitting there horror stuck. I simply could not believe this guy who was addicted and then topping up on the heroin substitute had no regard for his son or other road users and cycled off happily on 'his buzz'.

I mean, drink driving is activley compaigned against...but being on the road in his case whilst the heroin substitute hit his system to God knows what effect on his road worthiness or his childs saftey has never to my knoweldge been given the same attention.

:mad: Alice

Originally posted by kwv
It is bad enough that some adult cyclists put their and other road users at risk.

But it is even worse that adult cyclists without any thought put their own children at risk.

Like the male cyclist (white t-shirt, black pants, muticolour helmet) who allow their child to stand up on the bike seat why holding his shoulder at Boundary and Vulture St West End around 1.30pm 4/8/2003. The milder but completely absurd version of that that I see far too often is when the children are wearing helmets - but the f***ing parents are not?!?!?!? What the heck is that all about??? So Junior can live but Mommy and Daddy can die?