What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

Some years ago I read an autobiography of a British Officer of Gurkhas who had fought in the area prior to WWll.He also fought against the Japanese and had travelled widely and in his opinion,the people of the NW Frontier and Afghanistan were the physically toughest he had ever seen.
He fought in three wars in Afghanistan.After each war,when the tribesmen heard that the British troops were receiving decorations,the tribesmen would present themselves to the British political agent in Kabul to demand their medals. After all,they had fought too...just on the other side!
They regarded the wars as a bit of sport put on by the British for the tribesmen's entertainment.

Like most stories and memories from years ago...I would suspect that it got embellished over time.

Besides...a few daisy cutters and that will scare the toughness right out of just about anything. :D

Like most stories and memories from years ago...I would suspect that it got embellished over time.

Besides...a few daisy cutters and that will scare the toughness right out of just about anything. :DApart from the Taliban,obviously.
Despite more than 20 years of war against Russia,the US,NATO and each other they are still fighting,increasing their strength in fact.The US has still not managed to locate ObL or Mullah Omar and the Taliban still have bases in southern Afghanistan.
I guess... the daisy-cutters aren't working?
Despite dropping more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped in WWll on Europe....the bombing obviously didn't scare the Vietnamese either.

Another unwinnable war.

Yeah...courageous....strapping bombs onto their children and sending them into Israel.

Courageous.

If OBL is so courageous...why doesn't he volunteer for martyrdom and poke his head up out of the rat hole?Afghans are sending their children to Israel?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Is this a world exclusive from you? :D

Courageous.

If OBL is so courageous...why doesn't he volunteer for martyrdom and poke his head up out of the rat hole?Why didn't bush or cheney volunteer for combat duty in Vietnam?
Scared,maybe?

Steve...do you think he's living in a mansion in Jakarta? I mean if you really had to guess and come up with your most educated guess....do you think he's living the high life or is he hiding in the mountains...praying not to get tomahawked?How long was it before Cheney came out of his bunker post 9/11?
Where,no doubt,he was praying that another plane didn't drop on him.
Who is likely to be most afraid.....a few thousand members of Al-Quaeda who want nothing more than to become martyrs...or the millions of air travellers or workers in large buildings in western cities etc.?

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are both about profiteering.
Afghanistan was attacked (despite continuing negotiations with the Taliban to hand over ObL) to secure Unocal's proposed pipeline.They look like pulling out of the deal now...security cannot be guaranteed in the region and probably never will be.
Plans to attack Afghanistan were made before 9/11,solely to secure that pipeline. Who did Hamid Kazai work for before he was installed as Afghanistan's President?
Unocal.
Bush said on tv last night that the war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11,the CIA said before Iraq was attacked that there were no WMDs,as did the UN inspectors and nobody has found any since Iraq was attacked and occupied.The US has a long record of supporting vicious dictators around the world with arms,training,direct military support,finance and covert action,so any notion that the US invaded on some sort of rescue mission to bring "democracy" to the people of Iraq is quite ridiculous,particularly in light of the way sanctions were imposed and Iraq's infrastructure was destroyed.
Iraq will continue to suffer from the current civil war until a compliant dictator (as Saddam Hussein was previously) emerges,at which point the US will simply declare that "democracy now exists in Iraq." The last thing that the US wants is democracy in the region.What they want is whoever will supply oil to the US,by any means.
Virtually the first act by Paul Bremer when he took command of Iraq was to privatise the Iraqi oil industry.As we all know,Iraq was the second largest producer of oil and is situated next to what may prove to be the world's largest reserves in Eurasia. The US will never be able to leave the region and has no intention of doing so.Take a look at a map and it can be seen that from Central Asia the US can threaten Russia,China,India,Iran,all of Central Asia and the entire Middle East.China and India in particular are going to need ever increasing quantities of oil as their economies expand and threaten US corporate interests and profits.Those profits will be secured by Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld and Perle et al...all owned by the oil and defence industries who financed their election.
The US has been on a War Economy since FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression in WWll.The Cold War,Korea,Vietnam,Iraq,the Global War on Truth and the many "Small Wars" have made immense profits for the defence industries in the US and as they were all funded by taxes,those profits came out of your pocket.
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
Smedley Butler on Interventionism

Smedley got it right the first time.

How long was it before Cheney came out of his bunker post 9/11?
Where,no doubt,he was praying that another plane didn't drop on him.
Who is likely to be most afraid.....a few thousand members of Al-Quaeda who want nothing more than to become martyrs...or the millions of air travellers or workers in large buildings in western cities etc.?


You....as usual.....didn't answer the question I asked of you.

Afghans are sending their children to Israel?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Is this a world exclusive from you? :D
A Muslim whacko is a Muslim whacko is a Muslim whacko.

Apart from the Taliban,obviously.
Despite more than 20 years of war against Russia,the US,NATO and each other they are still fighting,increasing their strength in fact.The US has still not managed to locate ObL or Mullah Omar and the Taliban still have bases in southern Afghanistan.
I guess... the daisy-cutters aren't working?
Despite dropping more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped in WWll on Europe....the bombing obviously didn't scare the Vietnamese either.

Another unwinnable war.

The Taliban is increasing in strength? Yeah ok.

A base? You mean a campfire outside a rathole? If that's a base then I guess.

A Muslim whacko is a Muslim whacko is a Muslim whacko.
And that's precisely the attitude that will cause the US to lose both wars. :D

The Taliban is increasing in strength? Yeah ok.

A base? You mean a campfire outside a rathole? If that's a base then I guess.Not too different to the Viet Cong bases.
You don't need air-conditioning and a PX to win a war.
:D

[/i]
Limerick...honestly....I am quite calm.


Bill, you're not calm.

Bill, you need to calm down.



[/i]

Stick to the topic and don't spin. I didn't say we invaded Iraq to find Bin Laden....I said that it has been claimed on here MANY times that the war with Iraq was engineered by Bush to profit from it.

Bill, YOU need to stick to the topic.
Bill, you earlier asserted that Binladen was living in a cave.

When asked to prove this by several posters - YOU tried to change the subject by introducing Iraq and Lebanon, Bill.

You should take your own advice, Bill and stick on topic.





Limerick...you will find life to be much easier if you stop trying to be so literal. You migrate from literal to elusive depending on how the situation suits you.

If you think Bin Laden is capable of being the shot caller for the globe...then to me that is admiration...maybe hero is a strong word....but I am sure you get the point. You are just being glib at this point.


Bill, Bill.

You suggested that it was your goverment who was calling the shots.
I countered that in fact it is BinLaden's actions which have determined your country's policies since 2001.

Nowhere did I say that I admired Binladen nor did I refer to him as hero.

Glib?
You're the one who's being glib, Bill.

[/i]
If you are the shot caller...then you'd be involved and you're opinion would be relevant. You claim that Bin Laden is calling the shots (which using your logic...you don't KNOW that Bin Laden is calling the shots...you don't even KNOW if Bin Laden is alive right....:rolleyes: )....so if he's the shot caller...where was he in regards to Lebanon.



Bill.
You suggested that it was your goverment who was calling the shots.
I countered that in fact it is BinLaden's actions which have determined your country's policies since 2001.



Someone has to have the sack to take on terrorists...it sure won't be Ireland.


Bill.

Depends on how ones defines terrorism, doesn't it, Bill?

In real terms, my country has had guerilla warfare for over 30 years.
Somewhat more exposure than your country has had, Bill.


[/i]
Then why do you bother making the allegation? Do you simply enjoy beating your head against the wall in a useless argument?

The discussion isn't useless, Bill.

Apart from the Taliban,obviously.
Despite more than 20 years of war against Russia,the US,NATO and each other they are still fighting,increasing their strength in fact.The US has still not managed to locate ObL or Mullah Omar and the Taliban still have bases in southern Afghanistan.
I guess... the daisy-cutters aren't working?
Despite dropping more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped in WWll on Europe....the bombing obviously didn't scare the Vietnamese either.

Another unwinnable war.

Of course, it's unwinnable

It's Vietnam - for slower learners.

The Taliban is increasing in strength? Yeah ok.



Actually Bill, it's no okay.

Yesterday, five coffins bearing Union Jacks containing five British servicemen were flown back to Britain from Afghanistan.
Resulting from the latest offensive by the Taliban in Helmand province.
Helmand Province is in Afghanistan, Bill.

I know that those sort of images are censored in your country (star spangled banner draped coffins, that is).

What you also don't appear to be aware of is that the Taliban are in ascendancy again, Bill.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec06/afghanistan_09-08.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5078316.stm

http://www.itv.com/news/7a63fedcc134db923c42b149f6d590ff.html

It's clear U.S. troops are ahead of us to a large extent. The Brits aren't well-equipped, mean enough or possibly tough enough to fight the Taleban. U.S. troops routed the Taleban in a very short amount of time but now they left, the Taleban are giving the Brits a tough time of it. This is what's happening.
Since the days of Thatcher out armed forces have sunk. We depend on the U.S. entirely for defence. We don't even have a nuclear deterent that could be used without U.S. permission. Hard to believe we were once a global power but those days have long gone.

Its appears that NATO recognises that the Taliban have actually increased in strength in recent times.

Several journalists have commented on the fact that when the initial invasion took place (in late 2001), the Taliban were only removed from the environs of Kabul.
Areas like Kandahar, Spin Boldak, Herat, remained in warlords control and were never taken back from the Taliban.
So the Taliban were never "routed" as such.

Basically, outside of Kabul has been a no-go area since the invasion in 2001.
Even the Afghan President can't move outside Kabul for fear of being assasinated.







It's clear U.S. troops are ahead of us to a large extent. The Brits aren't well-equipped, mean enough or possibly tough enough to fight the Taleban. U.S. troops routed the Taleban in a very short amount of time but now they left, the Taleban are giving the Brits a tough time of it. This is what's happening.
Since the days of Thatcher out armed forces have sunk. We depend on the U.S. entirely for defence. We don't even have a nuclear deterent that could be used without U.S. permission. Hard to believe we were once a global power but those days have long gone.

And that's precisely the attitude that will cause the US to lose both wars. :D
Try to hide your joy.

Bill, you're not calm.

Bill, you need to calm down.


I guess your English isn't so great. :rolleyes: Trust me...you don't matter enough to me to get me riled up. I realize you aren't used to that...but it's true.




Bill, YOU need to stick to the topic.
Bill, you earlier asserted that Binladen was living in a cave.

When asked to prove this by several posters - YOU tried to change the subject by introducing Iraq and Lebanon, Bill.


No not really.....I responded to you in a post that you were taking me too literally. If you can't grasp that simple concept then I am sorry for you.

Let me use your logic....prove that he is calling the shots. Prove that he is even alive.....:rolleyes:


You should take your own advice, Bill and stick on topic.

If you were interesting enough then maybe I could.


Bill, Bill.

You suggested that it was your goverment who was calling the shots.
I countered that in fact it is BinLaden's actions which have determined your country's policies since 2001.


Let me take your tact here....Prove that Bin Laden's actions have determined our policy. You don't purport to be a mind reader do you...do you have the ability to read George Bush's mind? Can you prove that he didn't go to war to profit from it.

What can you prove Limerick? Have I proved yet that your prove it argument is positively retarded?



Nowhere did I say that I admired Binladen nor did I refer to him as hero.

Glib?
You're the one who's being glib, Bill.


Good comeback...what's next...I'm rubber and you're glue?



Bill.

Depends on how ones defines terrorism, doesn't it, Bill?

In real terms, my country has had guerilla warfare for over 30 years.
Somewhat more exposure than your country has had, Bill.


Yes and this proves the fact that you don't have the right to tell another country how to deal with it. After 30 years and you still haven't figured out how to stop it then shame on you and your government.

We aren't willing to turn the other cheek and hope the bad man goes away. If you are then that is your business.


The discussion isn't useless, Bill.
Prove it. :rolleyes:

It's clear U.S. troops are ahead of us to a large extent. The Brits aren't well-equipped, mean enough or possibly tough enough to fight the Taleban. U.S. troops routed the Taleban in a very short amount of time but now they left, the Taleban are giving the Brits a tough time of it. This is what's happening.
Since the days of Thatcher out armed forces have sunk. We depend on the U.S. entirely for defence. We don't even have a nuclear deterent that could be used without U.S. permission. Hard to believe we were once a global power but those days have long gone.
Well fortunately for us....your country doesn't lack citizens with expertise on warfare and terrorism that they can pass judgement on a country that is equipped, capable and willing to deal with it.

Let me use your logic....prove that he is calling the shots. Prove that he is even alive.....:rolleyes:
Let me take your tact here....Prove that Bin Laden's actions have determined our policy. You don't purport to be a mind reader do you...do you have the ability to read George Bush's mind? Can you prove that he didn't go to war to profit from it.

What can you prove Limerick? Have I proved yet that your prove it argument is positively retarded?

Prove it. :rolleyes:
LOL, good stuff Bill. :D