Fidel Castro

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You are 100% wrong about that.

The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise, Mr. I'm An Expert On Every Topic.

You can get financial aid to go to college while you are an illegal immigrant.

I'm 100% wrong about what?

There were a range of benefits listed earlier - and I stated that illegal immigrants are not entitled to the range of benefits listed.

Actually Bill, you contradicted yourself.

If people in vessels aren't illegal immigrants until - as you claim - they reach your shores, then what basis does the US Coast Guard have for shooting at them ?


No Limerick...I didn't. Until they reach shore...they are not immigrants...they are merely people who are not citizens of this country...who are attempting to illegally reach land. We.....like ANY other country in the world....has the right to defend our sovereign territory AND our coastal waters from unwanted intrusion.

The only contradiction is the one you are making up in your head by talking in circles....as usual.



And secondly Bill, we all know that everything isn't hunky dory with regard to illgal immigrants in your country - despite your statement "......free education, healthcare, housing, assistance...you name it"

That statement about the illegals turning unruly Bill, - is that a reference to the peaceful protest, on 2nd May 2006, called "A Day Without Immigrants",
Bill?
Limerick....if it wasn't "hunky dory' then why do they continue to flock here by the hundreds of thousands? Because they get free education, free healthcare, etc. It's a great deal being an illegal immigrant in America....far better than their own miserable country wherever they came from.

The whole point of the Day without immigrants protest was for the illegals to try and influence our government NOT to enact controls and legislation that SHOULD have already been in place and been enforced now for years. The actual citizens of this country are fed up with the influx and the pandering that we do to them.

Don't try to portray yourself as knowledgeable when your only source of information is Google. You'll come up short every time.

Illegal immigrants don't have access to the range of benefits which were listed earlier.
This is an example of you trying to speak to something you know nothing about. You can cling to that fact if you like....but illegals do indeed get these and MANY more benefits in this country.

Why do you think they come here? For the weather? The culture? The museums?

The horse is dead...yet you beat it still.

I'm 100% wrong about what?

There were a range of benefits listed earlier - and I stated that illegal immigrants are not entitled to the range of benefits listed.
I suspect that again...you are playing on words....no they are not entitled to them...but they do receive them.

The illegals have a hell of a racket going on in this country....they can create an entire false identity, obtain work, a social security number, identification, all within hours of touching down.

Our government has the ability to stop it...but for a reason I cannot grasp...they fail to do anything about it.

No Limerick...I didn't. Until they reach shore...they are not immigrants...they are merely people who are not citizens of this country...who are attempting to illegally reach land. We.....like ANY other country in the world....has the right to defend our sovereign territory AND our coastal waters from unwanted intrusion.


Bill - your country's coast guard shoots at people in vessels off your country's coast.
Other country's do not shoot at people in vessels trying to reach their shores.


Limerick....if it wasn't "hunky dory' then why do they continue to flock here by the hundreds of thousands? Because they get free education, free healthcare, etc. It's a great deal being an illegal immigrant in America....far better than their own miserable country wherever they came from.


Bill - illegal immigrants do not have access to the range of services that you listed earlier.

Now Bill, people will try always try to relocate to economies where wage rates are higher.
That is only natural.
In the case of illegal immigrants they try to get in to your country to get money (more money) - which is perfectly undertandable given that most of these people come from countries/economies which are very poor.





The whole point of the Day without immigrants protest was for the illegals to try and influence our government NOT to enact controls and legislation that SHOULD have already been in place and been enforced now for years. The actual citizens of this country are fed up with the influx and the pandering that we do to them.


Bill, you stated that the illegal immigrants were becoming unruly, earlier.

Bill, your country needs immigrants to do the jobs which your own people won't do.
If the illegal immigrants were not in your country, the jobs that they do would not be done by the indigenous population.

Your goverment was pressing to criminalise these people.

Bill, the people of your country may be fed up etc : but your economy would be ground to a halt if these people were there doing the work they do.

This is an example of you trying to speak to something you know nothing about. You can cling to that fact if you like....but illegals do indeed get these and MANY more benefits in this country.

Why do you think they come here? For the weather? The culture? The museums?

The horse is dead...yet you beat it still.

Bill, how do you know that I don't know about illegal immigration in to your country?
You're making an assumption - a false assumption.

Bill, how do you know that I don't know about illegal immigration in to your country?
You're making an assumption - a false assumption.
I don't need to assume.....every time you post you show your ignorance....the only one who cannot see that apparently is you.

I suspect that again...you are playing on words....no they are not entitled to them...but they do receive them.


Bill - the crux of the matter.

I'm glad that you acknowledged this because this was my point.

Illegal immigrants have few entitlements in your country.
You tried earlier to create the perception that they did have an entitlement.
They don't have an entitlement in many instances.



The illegals have a hell of a racket going on in this country....they can create an entire false identity, obtain work, a social security number, identification, all within hours of touching down.

Our government has the ability to stop it...but for a reason I cannot grasp...they fail to do anything about it.

And I suspect that this is the real issue - all these illgeal immigrants have "rackets" going.

Now I understand why you hold the opinions that you do regarding illegal immigration.

Thanks Bill.

Bill - your country's coast guard shoots at people in vessels off your country's coast.
Other country's do not shoot at people in vessels trying to reach their shores.


Yes they do. Especially if they order the boat to stop and it does not.
Don't you have a better argument than that weak attempt?





Bill - illegal immigrants do not have access to the range of services that you listed earlier.


Again....yes they do.




Now Bill, people will try always try to relocate to economies where wage rates are higher.
That is only natural.
In the case of illegal immigrants they try to get in to your country to get money (more money) - which is perfectly undertandable given that most of these people come from countries/economies which are very poor.

No kidding.



Bill, you stated that the illegal immigrants were becoming unruly, earlier.


Yes...they had a day of unruliness however that probably isn't an accurate description



Bill, your country needs immigrants to do the jobs which your own people won't do.
If the illegal immigrants were not in your country, the jobs that they do would not be done by the indigenous population.


Limerick..again....you are trying to argue using Google as your only source of information. Do not try to pretend that you know or do not know what our indiginous population will or won't do. We will never know what they will do if they have to because until the illegals are gone it's not an option.

If our government would pass legislation to not make it so easy to be a free loading loser...then maybe some of our poor might actually get of their ass and get to work.



Your goverment was pressing to criminalise these people.

Bill, the people of your country may be fed up etc : but your economy would be ground to a halt if these people were there doing the work they do.
I don't think anyone can predict what might happen to our economy...it is a FAR FAR more complex topic than you or I are capable of discussing here. I am positive about one thing...and that is if we need these immigrants to do this labor then we should allow so many work visas that are temporary in nature and that do not entitle citizens of other countries to come here and live off my tax money and reap the benefits of being an American citizen.

Simple solution. We control the flow, the amount, the length of stay...etc.

Bill - the crux of the matter.

I'm glad that you acknowledged this because this was my point.

Illegal immigrants have few entitlements in your country.
You tried earlier to create the perception that they did have an entitlement.
They don't have an entitlement in many instances.




And I suspect that this is the real issue - all these illgeal immigrants have "rackets" going.

Now I understand why you hold the opinions that you do regarding illegal immigration.

Thanks Bill.
Limerick...why you enjoy the semantics game is beyond me.

Immigrants are already entitled by law to some of the benefits that I listed...specifically a state sponsored education for their children. It is illegal for our schools to turn away illegal children in many states...including California.

They are also entitled by law to medical treatment at public hospitals. It is illegal for our hospital system to not treat these people even if they cannot pay the bill.

So yes....they have gained entitlement by law to some of these benefits...and what you don't know...is that many of our politicians are passing legislation that will entitle them to even more benefits....from drivers licenses to voting rights.

So again.....I was right from the start.....you were wrong from the start...but you still won't admit it.

So you are again....wrong.

Yes they do. Especially if they order the boat to stop and it does not.
Don't you have a better argument than that weak attempt?


Bill - your country has fired on vessels containing people on your country's coast.
This is documented.





Again....yes they do.



Bill - no they don't, again.



Yes...they had a day of unruliness however that probably isn't an accurate description



A day of unruliness.
Was it the fact that they had a demonstration that they were unruly?
Or maybe all those illegal people trying to prevent being criminalised - makes them unruly?

I get it - it's because it's a racket, isn't that it Bill?



Limerick..again....you are trying to argue using Google as your only source of information. Do not try to pretend that you know or do not know what our indiginous population will or won't do. We will never know what they will do if they have to because until the illegals are gone it's not an option.
.

Bill - your indigenous people won't do certain jobs.
It's the same throughout a lot of first world economies, Bill.
In Germany, it is the Turks.
In Britain, Eastern Europeans.
In the USA, it's Latin Americans.

Illegal immigrants fill the void and provide the services which citizens will not choose to do.




If our government would pass legislation to not make it so easy to be a free loading loser...then maybe some of our poor might actually get of their ass and get to work.
.

They're in on the racket too, eh, Bill?
The poor are just lolling round all day.



I don't think anyone can predict what might happen to our economy...it is a FAR FAR more complex topic than you or I are capable of discussing here. I am positive about one thing...and that is if we need these immigrants to do this labor then we should allow so many work visas that are temporary in nature and that do not entitle citizens of other countries to come here and live off my tax money and reap the benefits of being an American citizen.


I do try to keep things simple for you Bill.
Your country needs illegal labour - helps keep costs down, Bill.
So the guys who never appear on the payroll, who aren't entitled to medical care because they're "not on the payroll", create massive savings at State and federal level, while all the time ensuring that the jobs "get done", Bill.


We could argue the complexities of economies and the reasons as to why your country's economy is in the state that its' in, if you choose Bill?
Are you informed enough to discuss economic theory with me, Bill?

As regards your economy - it's in a lot of trouble, Bill.
Your budget deficit grows by the month, Bill.
Your trade deficit grows by the month, Bill.
Your country's currency value continues to depreciate, Bill.
And the levels of personal debt increase expontentially, Bill.

Ask him what Australia does with their suspected illegal immigrants.Illegal immigrants are deported.
The Australian Navy does not fire on approaching vessels suspected of containing illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants are deported.
The Australian Navy does not fire on approaching vessels suspected of containing illegal immigrants.
When are they deported? What do you do with them in the meantime, until they are deported?

I do try to keep things simple for you Bill.
Your country needs illegal labour - helps keep costs down, Bill.
So the guys who never appear on the payroll, who aren't entitled to medical care because they're "not on the payroll", create massive savings at State and federal level, while all the time ensuring that the jobs "get done", Bill.


.
I have a lot of experience in an industry that employs immigrant workers. Some of them are definitely illegal. They are paid well for good work. They are hired over Americans because they work harder, they show up every day, on time, and they don't bitch all day. They don't disappear to get drunk or do crack, they don't miss work because they were in the drunk tank overnight, they can drive the trucks because they don't have six DUI offenses, their ex-girlfriends don't show up and make huge scenes in the middle of the workplace, they don't have to leave in the middle of a job because they have a court date, they don't steal tools to buy crystal meth, they don't show up at 8:00 in the morning ON crystal meth.

They all give social security numbers, some of which are made up and some of which possibly came out of a trash bin. It is a myth that everyone is doing business with these people under the table.

And to tell you again, illegal immigrants are entitled to state benefits BY LAW in California.

But they aren't detained on islands for years with no due process, as in Australia, which there is no whisper of condemnation from you, because an American isn't doing it.


I doubt Australia allows unidentified vessels to just cruise on into their country without challenge, nor would any other country. If you want answers to your questions about the US Coast Guard the last page was full of information that you have ignored, as usual.

The protests are because they are afraid of losing all their free stuff that they get now.


Gotta go, Juan's crew needs some lemonade out there....
Illegal immigrants are not and never have been "detained on islands for years with no due process." The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants (Actually "visa overstayers") are British backpackers who bother noone (Except for their awful singing) and rarely come to the attention of the Immigration Dept.When they do ,they are deported immediately.
The practice of detaining asylum seekers on Nauru was a political stunt dreamed up by the Australian Government.It was pure "wedge politics" to win an election.The people detained on Nauru were claiming political asylum,had not arrived in Australia, were intercepted at sea and according to the Govt.,were detained until their identities were established and bona fides verified.The most recent case involved political asylum seekers from Sierra Leone who were granted visas within a week or two and in the case before that,political asylum seekers from PNG were granted visas within a couple of weeks also.Currently only two asylum seekers remain on Nauru.Both have received negative security assessments from the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation.They and the other asylum seekers who were detained for up to 5 years were there precisely because they had recourse to due process and availed themselves of it.Had they accepted the Immigration Department's ruling they would have been immediately deported.
There is no doubt that asylum seekers have frequently been treated badly and used as political pawns by the Australian Government.This has occurred post 9/11 and was primarily to justify the repressive "Anti-terrorist" laws that the Australian Govt. introduced after that event.The treatment of asylum-seekers and the "Anti-terrorist" legislation have been rightly condemned by virtually every lawyer in Australia and many outside the country.
The practice of "catch and release" in the USA was not implemented because of humanitarian concerns.It resulted from a lack of detention facilities,something that the Bush administration is changing,with the announcement that more detention centres are being built with a contract being awarded to a Halliburton Corp. subsidiary.On a per capita basis,the US detains far more illegal immigrants than Australia.
The Australian Navy has never fired on any vessel suspected of containing illegal immigrants.
After nearly 30 years working on boats and travelling in and out of Australia by sea many times,I have been stopped and searched twice by Customs and once by the Navy.I have been stopped and searched many times by Fisheries Inspectors and occasionally by Maritime Authorities checking for compliance with maritime regulations concerning sea-worthiness, safety and licensing.I have never been fired on or ever had weapons pointed at me or my vessels.
For the record,I disagree with the way that asylum-seekers have been treated and with the conservative government responsible.

Illegal immigrants are not and never have been "detained on islands for years with no due process." The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants (Actually "visa overstayers") are British backpackers who bother noone (Except for their awful singing) and rarely come to the attention of the Immigration Dept.When they do ,they are deported immediately.
The practice of detaining asylum seekers on Nauru was a political stunt dreamed up by the Australian Government.It was pure "wedge politics" to win an election.The people detained on Nauru were claiming political asylum,had not arrived in Australia, were intercepted at sea and according to the Govt.,were detained until their identities were established and bona fides verified.The most recent case involved political asylum seekers from Sierra Leone who were granted visas within a week or two and in the case before that,political asylum seekers from PNG were granted visas within a couple of weeks also.Currently only two asylum seekers remain on Nauru.Both have received negative security assessments from the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation.They and the other asylum seekers who were detained for up to 5 years were there precisely because they had recourse to due process and availed themselves of it.Had they accepted the Immigration Department's ruling they would have been immediately deported.
There is no doubt that asylum seekers have frequently been treated badly and used as political pawns by the Australian Government.This has occurred post 9/11 and was primarily to justify the repressive "Anti-terrorist" laws that the Australian Govt. introduced after that event.The treatment of asylum-seekers and the "Anti-terrorist" legislation have been rightly condemned by virtually every lawyer in Australia and many outside the country.
The practice of "catch and release" in the USA was not implemented because of humanitarian concerns.It resulted from a lack of detention facilities,something that the Bush administration is changing,with the announcement that more detention centres are being built with a contract being awarded to a Halliburton Corp. subsidiary.On a per capita basis,the US detains far more illegal immigrants than Australia.
The Australian Navy has never fired on any vessel suspected of containing illegal immigrants.
After nearly 30 years working on boats and travelling in and out of Australia by sea many times,I have been stopped and searched twice by Customs and once by the Navy.I have been stopped and searched many times by Fisheries Inspectors and occasionally by Maritime Authorities checking for compliance with maritime regulations concerning sea-worthiness, safety and licensing.I have never been fired on or ever had weapons pointed at me or my vessels.
For the record,I disagree with the way that asylum-seekers have been treated and with the conservative government responsible.
Now, stevebaby, was that so hard? I just wanted to hear one instance of you disagreeing with the policy of another country, preferably your own. Thanks.

For the record, I have no idea what my government should do about illegal immigration. Neither do they. It is wedge politics here as well. It seems insurmountable. Letting everyone stay destabilizes the country; troops on the border is unconstitutional. No solutions seems practical. I don't pretend I have an answer. I just don't think I live in the most evil country in the world that is at fault for all the evils in the world.

Bill - your country has fired on vessels containing people on your country's coast.
This is documented.




Bill - no they don't, again.


I am not going to do the work for you...but just of memory....Japan, North Korea, Taiwan, Israel and the Soviet Union are countries in recent memory that have recently fired on non military water borne vessels when they violated their coastal waters.

So...Yes....they do. Again..and for the last time.





A day of unruliness.
Was it the fact that they had a demonstration that they were unruly?
Or maybe all those illegal people trying to prevent being criminalised - makes them unruly?

I get it - it's because it's a racket, isn't that it Bill?

[quote]

Uh yeah ok. Who cares what makes them unruly....if they are criminals then they are criminals.


[quote]

Bill - your indigenous people won't do certain jobs.
It's the same throughout a lot of first world economies, Bill.
In Germany, it is the Turks.
In Britain, Eastern Europeans.
In the USA, it's Latin Americans.

Illegal immigrants fill the void and provide the services which citizens will not choose to do.


The jobs will get done if their is nothing else....the social programs in place allow the poor to choose which jobs they take and which they won't. If you are hungry enough...you will take any job.




They're in on the racket too, eh, Bill?
The poor are just lolling round all day.

Don't put words in my mouth. Some...absolutely....others are in need and very deserving of help.



I do try to keep things simple for you Bill.
Your country needs illegal labour - helps keep costs down, Bill.
So the guys who never appear on the payroll, who aren't entitled to medical care because they're "not on the payroll", create massive savings at State and federal level, while all the time ensuring that the jobs "get done", Bill.


I appreciate you keeping it simple...I just wish you'd keep it factual. Illegal labor keeps the cost of goods sold down sure...but the social cost that it takes to feed, house, clothe, educate and provide health care makes up for that. This doesn't even mention the crime that comes with it....




We could argue the complexities of economies and the reasons as to why your country's economy is in the state that its' in, if you choose Bill?
Are you informed enough to discuss economic theory with me, Bill?


Limerick...I can discuss anything you like.....but it's pointless because we see it very differently. For example...you are under the impression that our economy is doing poorly right now...yet the stock market is doing well, unemployment is low, inflation is at bay, interest rates are moderate, housing has been out of control....that seems to be slowing in certain areas.

Our economy on it's worst day...is still far better than most.



As regards your economy - it's in a lot of trouble, Bill.
Your budget deficit grows by the month, Bill.
Your trade deficit grows by the month, Bill.
Your country's currency value continues to depreciate, Bill.
And the levels of personal debt increase expontentially, Bill.
These can be misleading unless you look at debt levels as a percent of GDP. Our dollars are higher than they have ever been...however so is our GDP. The one area that I will agree with you so far is that our deficit continues to grow at an alarming rate and we continue to spend money on that money pit we call Iraq.

As for our economy as a whole....I don't see it in trouble...but of course it's America you know.....we suck....so our economy must suck right Limerick?

I just don't think I live in the most evil country in the world that is at fault for all the evils in the world.You're right. You live in a country that is responsible for its evils. Your problem is that you refuse to see that your GOP leadership are the ones responsible for that evil.

No one here has said any different.

You're right. You live in a country that is responsible for its evils. Your problem is that you refuse to see that your GOP leadership are the ones responsible for that evil.

No one here has said any different.
Well, gee, it sounded a lot more like ONLY the GOP leadership are the ones responsible for evil. Get a grip. And I'm not a member of the GOP anyway. I think the Republicans suck. Just not as much as the Democrats. I would vote Libertarian, except that equals no vote.

But I'm just a big rube that thinks we are at war against terrorism, who doesn't think it's evil to bomb terrorists (or detain them or even torture them), and I don't believe George Bush planned 9-11. I mean, one minute he's a total moron who can't find his ass with both hands, and the next minute he's a criminal mastermind controlling the world stage. Which is it?

I am not going to do the work for you...but just of memory....Japan, North Korea, Taiwan, Israel and the Soviet Union are countries in recent memory that have recently fired on non military water borne vessels when they violated their coastal waters.


I don't see anyone here from any of the countries that you have listed - trying to defend their shooting at vessels.

On the contrary - you're trying to defend your country's shooting at vessels.






Uh yeah ok. Who cares what makes them unruly....if they are criminals then they are criminals.



Yes, Bill we know that you consider illegal immigrants to be criminals.
You made that point abundantly clear.





Don't put words in my mouth. Some...absolutely....others are in need and very deserving of help.


Bill, you're an adult.
No one put words in your mouth.

You said that they operate a racket.






Limerick...I can discuss anything you like.....but it's pointless because we see it very differently. For example...you are under the impression that our economy is doing poorly right now...yet the stock market is doing well, unemployment is low, inflation is at bay, interest rates are moderate, housing has been out of control....that seems to be slowing in certain areas.


17 months of interest rate hikes, Bill. Interest rates are not low in your country, Bill.
Unemployment Bill, is at nearly 5% (and that only includes those who can register).
Bill, your country's currency has devalued 25% in the past three years too.
Bill, your country's trade deficit stand at over 60 billion per month - for the past 2.5 years.
Bill, your federal budget deficit is at an all time high.
In addition, your country is exporting jobs by the truckload monthly.

If that is a good economy Bill, then yes the USA did win the Vietnam War.