The Thread about Nothing....

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

So what happened to the leg anyway?

You was just riding along and a razorback came outta nowhere and gored you before you could wrestle it to the ground and slit its throat with your trusty Park Tools 18-in-one?

Squeezed a nasty zit?

Accidentally ended up in Collingwood and got scratched in an incredible cat-fight outside The Punters Palace hotel?

HDT, Kotter, you guys on PM here?

I have a price on the Kona Unit if you want it.

It's an 18" 2006 (brown) model.

HDT, Kotter, you guys on PM here?

I have a price on the Kona Unit if you want it.

It's an 18" 2006 (brown) model.

thrown ya a pm.
Ive got no idea on mountain bike sizing, the last time I rode one I was 12, which in reality aint that long ago, but growing and all that shit. I just grew a bit over the last month. Thank god I didnt buy an expensive bike, By the time Im 20 I think Im gonna be a frame size bigger.

18" or Medium I suppose you'd call it. How tall are ya?

177cm

Sorry Kotter, I completely forgot to ask the dude at werk for the link to the HID crap. I'll try to remember tomorrow.

177cm

about right for an 18" frame with 23" top tube, 30" standover.

thylo...i hear your commerical pain about local markets...my advice - follow the money...you can always come back for revenge in future when your brand has assumed its rightful position...to be honest australian consumers have a very very very long history of ignoring there own. even in the financial market sector we have a massive history of refusing to invest in our own inventions...only to see them snapped up by asians/americans (notice the non use of 'seppo' here as i respect the amercian tendancy to roll the dice).

this glorious meritocracy we have developed down under is often a local business owners worst nightmare in may regards as we would sadly (deep down) much rather send a dollar overseas to someone we dont know than to send a dollar to the guy next door...im sure a few of you might disagree with that point but ive seen it time and time again...i dont think we are a confident nation at all in terms of buying from our own producers and believing in them as being 'world class'. Americans on the other hand will just play a straight bat...if they like what you have, see the quality in what you do and the price is right then they will buy - dont matter where your from...but australian consumers are a far more fickle crowd.

and i like what climbo said re: sponsorship (personally i wouldnt do the sponsorship at all locally - better to send a free frame overseas where your market has shown growth - early days your marketing dollar has to seriously pay its way so follow your turnover in that sense)...dont find a air head A grader who doesnt care - but find a passionate young B grader on the way up.

everyone on this forums knows you have a kick ass business and i have no doubt everyone here will be stoked when we finally get to see a thylo machine in the pro tour!!!!!!!!!!http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gifThese are the most pertinent words I have read on the Intarweb in 6.72 years!

Absolutely spot on.

Fixie frame looked real nice thylacine. :)

(snip)........Oh no, I just realised I didn't even spell their name right last night. They'd be The Bellrays :eek: In Melbourne the next coupla nights. Corner hotel and Hifi bar. You guitarists'd like their shredder. DO IT.
I've just been listening to a Bellrays special on 3PBS fm here in Melbourne. You are right bbp, they kick arse!! Bummer is I already have prior bookings so I can't get to their gigs. :( They are supporting Radio Birdman too, so it would be a top show.

These are the most pertinent words I have read on the Intarweb in 6.72 years!

Absolutely spot on.

The fact is though existence I assume (without knowing) Thylo's market is not concentrated in one geographic district where he can exploit with increased marketing investment. I think he does more MTB's and they go to the US. Might do a few in Boulder.

He has the employee discount, but not sure it would encourage those shops to push his product. Maybe Thylo does not necessarily want it hoisted on retail consumers, more a discerning consumer.

Anyway, Boulder obviously have lots of riders, but you would need the investment where there is a lucrative latent market for you, and this marketing might need more hands on effort, than you can from across the Pacific. The frames' sales and word of mouth does it best and is most cost effective on assumes.

Melbourne does have many newcomers in the middle age executive demographic, who are willing to splurge on new roadies and might require a point of difference. There is a latent market, but you just need the product on the shelves. Outside of continental Europe, Melbourne must have very good ratio of high end buyers in one geographic market. If Thylo is thinking about getting a bike on someone, it will be seen by more riders than anywhere outside Europe. A bike per capita ratio.

Melbourne also has the advantage of Thylo getting the hands on relationship with the tester, and developing the bike with them present along the way. Might be able to show them some of the stages. If they are your mouthpiece, you want them to see behind the seens so they can better spruik the product.

Just off the top of my head, Ridemedia have done 4 custom steeds from Aus makers.

Ciombola (Luke Roberts bike)
Lewellyn
Teschner (not sure it was a custom)
Baum (Phil Liggett's bike)

My idea would be to get someone on the bike, and get it reviewed. It should be relatively simple. Also, look at Cyclingnews and Pezcycling to review it. I know Pez require payment, but you might be able to get a person to review it, and then submit it yourself with the payment. Orcourse, their editorial policy and ethics are not at the pinnacle of sports journalism.

I assume they (Baum) gave Liggett a freebie, to get noticed also. Or a major discount.

Don't forget that per capita ratio Thylo, if you are investing in marketing it needs to get to as many customers as possible. If they are more dispersed, it wont hit those potential consumers.

America is 14 times our size, so certainly with a global cycle business with a MTB focus, you will move more product there than onshore. But unless all your road customers are in the one small district, it is no good putting your product into the middle of nowhere USA.

errr,

the SHELF, was a phrase re: publicity. You know, to be seen.

It was not a retail inference.

Thylo obviously wants some presence in the sector, an indirect presence, with his industry discount. I am not sure if there will be conflicting aims with them pushing, or spruiking a product though, although I concede, you want it on those in the industry for 1 credibility, and 2 getting seen as much as possible.

Existence, Austrade will not be able to leverage a business with such a fragmented business which sells piecemeal.

They can be of great help with small businesses where there is throughput and regular patronage. Thylo has highly individual customers and a fragmented market.

but the biggest mistake i see other business owners make is try to lead the market and make them follow (i.e when we start trying to predict sales/biker per capita and use that kind of data as relevent for custom frames). those stats just wont add up - position your brand and business globally (as you have already done with web/skype etc etc) and then follow your turnover and back it up with marketing - and get AUSTRADE on your side.
[/QUOTE]
use your brain first, Thylo was talking about geting a road bike in the market to be seen. My point was, it needs to be seen by as many potential consumers as possible.

This is very specific, in reference to this bike. How do you market a custom, the US brands, Parlee, Sachs, Calfee, I assume they were primarily via word of mouth and let their workmanship speak for themselves. Expansion, they might turnover more and would look for avenues of advertising. Customs obviously have a differen requirement and Thylo would know his customer base better than anyone. I was just giving a heads up on the Australian magazine that has reviewed other Australian customs, *I have not heard they charge for the review, although they might require an advertising sale, in lieu, so effectively they might. And the other reviewers, I assume Ridemedia and Knapp/Cyclingnews might have a partiality to the Australian industry so good luck. If it is going to cost you money, well, then it is another question altogether.

Not about leading a market, because as I said, he knows his customer base, but if you can get a free review in Ridemedia, you take it gleefully one assumes.

I could NOT disagree more, about how much help Austrade could be to help you reach that target market. If you do more than a 500 units to the states I am sure they will be a help and the subsidies, grants and tax rebates will help.

Existence this sounds like a pissing contest, and I wrote a long reply again and it crashed...

If you looked at the parameters of my advice, I was only suggesting that a frame on a rider should be seen by the highest amount of customers as possible. Thylo knows his customers, they are not the execs who want Italian Pinarello or Colnago, they might be execs who want a point of difference, but not the run of mill Italophiles.

The frame on a rider in Boulder might be seen by a heap of customers of LA/NYC or San Fran, my point was, of this, was get it on someone where it will hit the most customers. Even if he is only spending time on labour with the frame, he still should maxime his exposure to his customer base. One frame will only be seen in a particular geographic region, and my point was, outside the European continent, Melbourne has a high and increasing participation, undergoing a surge.

On marketing, I never suggested greater than prorata marketing investment/expense in the local market!!! It was just a response to Thylo looking for a rider to put him on a frame in the local vicinity. Need to maximise the exposure of that frame.

I can understand why it is easier to close a sale to the US, the $$$ and 4xrate make it more attractive/affordable, the "exotic" nature of an import are two obvious reasons.

I agree with the advice on the american market, 14 times our size, can sell "exotica" whereas you sell "local" dometically. If the turnover is 9 times the domestic market, any marketing budget should be at minimum proportional or exclusive towards that market, because there might be a threshold requirement for publicity rendering the 10% immaterial.

Customs are completely different ofcourse, and word of mouth is your best sales tool, so you want to replicate that if possible in your marketing. Word of mouth plus a physical impression, albeit a website is a shelf, but nothing in comparison to the tangible thing.

Not different Existence, you just were not appreciating my repsonse was to the frame endorsement.

And I know Austrade can be a good hand, and turnover does not need to be so much, both statements were absurd exaggerations from moi before. Individual sales, custom frames, specific reuirements, fragemented market and smaller turnover they will be less effective though. You will know you consumer marketplace much better, but they may help with rebates and grants etc. Replicating word of mouth and making that go further is the wisest advice from a non-profesional lay person who does not know the business.

yes this is the comment i have a huge problem swallowing unfortunately as its just a little too pie in the sky for mine...(i think you might be right...but its not the kind of comment upon which you could make a sound financial decision thats all)

well, there is obviously competition in the market, but there is anecdotal evidence that cycling is pushing into golf's weekend market. Taking some affluent executives as coffee shop riders. Not sure how many do beach road on the weekends but it is someting ridiculous.

The Melbournians will be able to back this one up, beach rd traffic has increased remarkably over the last few years. But the size of the market? And the competition in the market, or Thylo's competition, can;t answer it. But can answer, there are over three million Melbournites and it is one of the bigger cities in the world. The exposure will be larger. Thylo's concerned about exposure to customers though. Assume there are potential customers in that lot, who want the point of difference for Pinarello.

You want a market breakdown? Come on, this is messageboard, don't give me pie in the sky.

my point here was that possibly a free frame in the local market is indeed greater than prorata marketing investment...only thylo can answer that - i was just going on what he mentioned off the cuff a while ago.

indeed it is, but Thylo told me "at cost". So I was going on labour and in kind cost to him, not outright expense. Big difference. My suggestion was a 12 month lend, if his cash flow could cover the expense. But dont know what the resell value would be like and if he can cover his costs after 12 months with a gruppo and wheels, or even just the frame. I figured it would be more attractive and he might get a marque to ride his frame if it was free and a lend.

If I knew it was a a free frame, that makes a difference to my calculations.

from what i can gather he has very much got this side of his business under control and the shift to using skype is a great move.

assumed this was the source of his foreign sales.

My only idea would be to move more jersies, perhaps you could throw in a jersey with a biek Thylo if they bought the burnt orange, Thylo regular colour.

Not exactly like the Giros, in any colour only blue, but if the frame colour becomes a trademark, or calling card, and the jersies are quite loud and recognisable, they integrate well with the frame. You obviously can't afford to sponsor a team or anyone, but if they buy the orange frame, a free jersey might bring some more recognition, and accentuate the word of mouth.

Don't know you cost stuctures and the wholesale on the jersies though. Not advocating this, just something to look at, and especially not advocating it for all frame colours just the burnt ornage Thylo regular. Obviously you need to know how many fames (fraction) you have to move per free jersey and see your net result. Just thinking B R A N D I N G.

this may bear no relevance, but...

DIATRIBE

last week I got asked to quote a job in Bondi Junction
I showed up, I checked it out
within 10 minutes I got a $128 parking fine
still havent made a cent

Tonight I pick up all the bands gear
I load in
Pay for parking
I still get a $77 parking ticket
the band made $70
split five ways this time

I got good karma getting my tools back?
bollocks
they're better off gone.
I live in a c**t town
I'm not surprised interest rates just went up
this economy has f8cked it's own arse

I need to move

this may bear no relevance,......I hear ya, man :)
it's all a scam, everything!! .......and WTF is stamp duty???!!! :mad:
What about fkn rates??!! We have taxe on everything, then we have to pay rates??!! AAAAAGGHH! Lucky I have my bikes to take it out on :)

* late night "discusion"*ummmar, 2 naughty boys are going to be very tired are grumpy bumpy tomorrow at school.