Hydro-peneumatic hybrid drivetrain and brake system

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Hydro- peneumatic hybrid drivetrain and brake systems for Bikes and other HP. vehiecles

Anybody out there who can help me materialize my visions of worry free mountainbikking ?

I need an engeenier to caculate my designs and put them into useful drawings, and also someone to produce it (manufacturer).

In case you are too smart and think it is not gona work, please do not waste time telling me that.

I have thougt of everything.....it is going to work......this is a complete new technology.

Sorrily i am only a technicion stucked here in Berlin/ Germany, where the people are so fed up, they just do not want to move.......i am hopefull that maybe someone is still hungry out there to help me make it.

Please contact me if you can help.......i am not gona descuss this, i just want to build it and enjoy my Super Road Free Bikes.

Thanks

Mehrdad Wieske

++49- (0) 173 192 96 92

Hydro- peneumatic hybrid drivetrain and brake systems for Bikes and other HP. vehiecles

Anybody out there who can help me materialize my visions of worry free mountainbikking ?

I need an engeenier to caculate my designs and put them into useful drawings, and also someone to produce it (manufacturer).

In case you are too smart and think it is not gona work, please do not waste time telling me that.

I have thougt of everything.....it is going to work......this is a complete new technology.

Sorrily i am only a technicion stucked here in Berlin/ Germany, where the people are so fed up, they just do not want to move.......i am hopefull that maybe someone is still hungry out there to help me make it.

Please contact me if you can help.......i am not gona descuss this, i just want to build it and enjoy my Super Road Free Bikes.

Thanks

Mehrdad Wieske

++49- (0) 173 192 96 92

what the fook? what is this idea of yours? You sound like a total nutjob!

what the fook? what is this idea of yours? You sound like a total nutjob!

I just knew it !!!

I am intrigued by what I think you are proposing. Good luck and I'd be interested to hear how it turns out.

I just knew it !!!
sorry.
I am just used to seeing scheme proposals laid out in a very formal manner. you have not supplied a lot of information to catch people's attention. ie what you are trying to achieve etc..

sorry.
I am just used to seeing scheme proposals laid out in a very formal manner. you have not supplied a lot of information to catch people's attention. ie what you are trying to achieve etc..

Do you know me ???

then why do you think i am stupid enough to tell you anything ???

I am just trying to get to people they know what i am talking about and can help me (us "bikers") make it real.

Greetings Fooker

M.

1) Do you know me ???

2)then why do you think i am stupid enough to tell you anything ???

3) I am just trying to get to people they know what i am talking about and can help me (us "bikers") make it real.

4)Greetings Fooker

M.

1. thankfully I don't.

2. Do you really think i want to steal your hair brained arsewipe of an idea? I have a proper job that pays proper money!! Cycling (as in physical exertion requiring skill to manipulate and control) is just a hobby to me.

3. But you haven't said anything of any sense. You have simply strung what sounds like an impressive set of words together "hydro-pneumatic drivetrain and brake system" together in the hope that somebody will bite. I already HAVE a (hydro) pneumatic braking system. they are called hydraulic disk brakes!!! Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a reasdon why my job title is "Engineer" and yours is "technician"? In the commercial environment I work in, people like me are paid to think and innovate, and people like you are paid to implement what people like me tell you to. And if you get it wrong, we make you do it again. Anyway, why change bikes? They do what they are supposed to do and they do it very well. What you are trying to do, sounds like a cross between a pedallo, a helicopter and a hot air balloon. (human powered, lots of pneumatics and full of hot air!!!)

4. Greeting technician.

Regards

Engineer Dave

p.s please either write about bikes or go spam somewhere else.

1. thankfully I don't.

2. Do you really think i want to steal your hair brained arsewipe of an idea? I have a proper job that pays proper money!! Cycling (as in physical exertion requiring skill to manipulate and control) is just a hobby to me.

3. But you haven't said anything of any sense. You have simply strung what sounds like an impressive set of words together "hydro-pneumatic drivetrain and brake system" together in the hope that somebody will bite. I already HAVE a (hydro) pneumatic braking system. they are called hydraulic disk brakes!!! Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a reasdon why my job title is "Engineer" and yours is "technician"? In the commercial environment I work in, people like me are paid to think and innovate, and people like you are paid to implement what people like me tell you to. And if you get it wrong, we make you do it again. Anyway, why change bikes? They do what they are supposed to do and they do it very well. What you are trying to do, sounds like a cross between a pedallo, a helicopter and a hot air balloon. (human powered, lots of pneumatics and full of hot air!!!)

4. Greeting technician.

Regards

Engineer Dave

p.s please either write about bikes or go spam somewhere else.


I am very sorry, i thought this is a sort of serious forum.

I do not have to let some "PRIMAT" from stoneage insulting me, because i have an idea and looking for help.

I have got enough of this here in unemployed Berlin/ Germany.

I hope the officials reading this.

I am very sorry, i thought this is a sort of serious forum.

I do not have to let some "PRIMAT" from stoneage insulting me, because i have an idea and looking for help.

I have got enough of this here in unemployed Berlin/ Germany.

I hope the officials reading this.

It is a serious forum. This forum is about mountain biking, and this specific area is the tech corner where people have technical queries and ask for assitance. The general etiquette is to outline the problem you have such that others can understand what the problem is and offer assistance. You have not done this. I asked what the nature of your idea was such that I could offer serious assistance (for free) and you refused to tell me. So if that is the case what is the point in posting here.

You clearly have some project in mind, but you have not stated what it is other than some babble involving long impressive looking words. So I will ask you again, "what assistance it is that you require and what you hope to achieve?" I would be interested to hear what you have to say, so none of this and I quote you "why do you think i am stupid enough to tell you anything" rubbish. if you won't speak then why post in the first place?

Whether you are unemployed or not is irrelevant to the topic of conversation here. No emotional blackmail please.

So, what is your idea? and what help do you require? Feel free to contact by private message if you are worried about people stealing your idea as I AM an engineer and can do the calcs for most things. Prove me wrong by contacting me with a sensible project outline detailing what you hope to achieve. But I suspect you are full of crap.

It is a serious forum. This forum is about mountain biking, and this specific area is the tech corner where people have technical queries and ask for assitance. The general etiquette is to outline the problem you have such that others can understand what the problem is and offer assistance. You have not done this. I asked what the nature of your idea was such that I could offer serious assistance (for free) and you refused to tell me. So if that is the case what is the point in posting here.

You clearly have some project in mind, but you have not stated what it is other than some babble involving long impressive looking words. So I will ask you again, "what assistance it is that you require and what you hope to achieve?" I would be interested to hear what you have to say, so none of this and I quote you "why do you think i am stupid enough to tell you anything" rubbish. if you won't speak then why post in the first place?

Whether you are unemployed or not is irrelevant to the topic of conversation here. No emotional blackmail please.

So, what is your idea? and what help do you require? Feel free to contact by private message if you are worried about people stealing your idea as I AM an engineer and can do the calcs for most things. Prove me wrong by contacting me with a sensible project outline detailing what you hope to achieve. But I suspect you are full of crap.

I made a simple skatch (paint) but no matter what i (USER) tried, did not work. I mean to send U the Skatch, either you send me your e-mail add. or you let me know how to do it here so everyone can look at it.....and honestly i am not sure, if you are going to throw more Dirt at me afterwards.......?

Greetings

M.

I did put the Skatch on "Dirk Rag- Forum"
http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=108064&posted=1#post108064

Greetings

Mehrdad

I did put the Skatch on "Dirk Rag- Forum"
http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=108064&posted=1#post108064

Greetings

Mehrdad


had a look and I am curious as to how it would work. I have never seen anything like it. a bit more information would useful. Feel free to use the pm feature on this board.

I did put the Skatch on "Dirk Rag- Forum"
http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=108064&posted=1#post108064

Greetings

Mehrdad
Somebody replied there and as you saw it has been (claimed to be) done.

I am neither engineer nor technician, But I do work with hydro stuff a lot and am always delving.

The trouble as I see it is that a hydraulic drive is nowhere nearly as efficient as a chain drive. Chain is about the most efficient power transfer method by a country mile IIRC, if in good condition.

Chain runs at 90% plus. Hydro systems are considered good at 75%. I think they are even lower when you get into rotational systems, such as you propose.

You either have to generate very high pressures, or a lot of flow, to transfer power hydraulically.

Pressures take inefficient pumps to create (tight seals and fittings).

Flows generate friction problems in the pipes, unless you have enormous pipes. Flow systems also have "slip" at both pump and motor ends.

Chain is also extremely lightweight for the strength.

IMO, hydraulics are wonderful where they are needed. They are simple, versatile, robust and very powerful. Great in dirty conditions (which again is where a bike would love it). As you are chasing, they are also well-adapted to speed/power change without complexity or steps.

But for dynamic drives, they are inefficient, heavy and are good because they are sealed, and WTF you have the hydraulic system there anywhere.

They are also prone to leak, if not kept up very carefully.

And often expensive to repair, with very critical tolerances.

On a boating forum there was much discussion about hydro drives for boats, over shaft/gear. The same problems were brought forth as here. Ineffiency, weight, leaking, maintenance.

SO you asked people not say you could not do it. You can. It has apprently been done (although it was only a picture of a bike. I have never seens one! <G>). But I am not sure it's worth it. It would take a LOT of work to develop efficient, light, simple hydraulic drive for a bike.

This is from the "Invertor" of "Power Curve, from Dirt Rag Forum, javascript:ol('http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums//showthread.php?t=10621&goto=newpost');

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Facts about PowerCurve Liquid Drive


Perhaps those who suggest PowerCurve variable speed liquid Drive does not work, or its not efficient, have no idea what they are talking about.

First, let's talk about hands-on experience for a moment. I'm the inventor of the PowerCurve Liquid Drive. I am also an Electro-Mechanical designer and master Toolmaker. I personally built all the PowerCurve prototypes. The prototypes I've completed are of the highest quality, built with 4 axis CNC (I wrote the programs, I operated the machine). Prototype bench testing provided excellent high efficiency results and the quadracycle proved the concept during initial field trial.

Second, let's talk a little about chit-chat, in the inventing world we reduce ideas to practice before we chat about results. We have an old saying when unqualified chit-chat starts to drive a technical conversation . . . without hardware (proof), its just an opinion (which amounts to gossip). OK Girls?

Third, build a variable speed liquid drive, then we'll talk.

Success and Failure: PowerCurve Liquid Drive is not like a mini automotive hydraulic transmission (that's usually where the misguided notion of inefficiency gets its start). PowerCurve Liquid Drive is a simple HYDROSTATIC device not a complex hydraulic transmission. Why? cars weigh tons, bikes weigh pounds. The power to move an average car 20 mph on level ground with no headwind is 16 to 18 hp, the power to move a typical bicycle under those conditions is one tenth of a horsepower. What this all boils down to is that the pressure in an auto "hydraulic" transmission can reach thousands of pounds per square inch. In a bicycle "hydrostatic" drive is typically under 125 psi. Pressing on here, prototype projects are expensive, patents are also expensive. I know, I paid the bills in this case. But, unlike most first prototypes, this one was a complete technical success right off the bench. The failure has been my financial situation, which changed greatly when at age three, my first son Aaron was diagnosed with autism (Aaron was born in 1990). Go to: http://www.edisonian.com/a001adb.htm Since then, his medical needs have overwelmed us, and in turn, ended my ability to continue my prototyping work. So . . . no offense, but listening to casual blog chit-chat about "this won't work" is bitter sweet to me.

The liquid drive works beautifully. Unfortunately, I no longer have the financial resources to continue on my own. To make matters worse, companies are reluctant to hire me because my son's insurance requirements are more than they're willing to take on (and I'm getting old).

My challenge to you all - I am willing to continue, but I need help. I am at the point where I must find a qualified angel investor to move this project forward. If you know of one, or a hydrostatic products manufacturer with vision willing to help complete the project, please let me know.

Liquiddrive, Inventor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still not convienced ?

Go to http://www.powerengine.com/aitx001hydbiksum.htm

and look at the "MOVIE" !!!

Greetings

M. Wieske

P.s. please say hi to Wayne McIntosh (Bike Force, Wittfords, Perth)

Two words


Mark Twain

Two words


Mark Twain

3 words !!!

get a job !!!

Mehrdad,

What do you think is the major advantage of a hydraulic drive system over a traditional metal chain?

Cost: There are a numebr of issues that I would note.
I would expect your design will be a lot more expensive than a traditional drive system even if you take into account both mechs and the two sets of cogs, so for your product to be viable it would have to be a LOT better than the current products. In what ways will this be so?

Maintenance: Current systems can be readily repaired on the trailside for the most part. Mountainbikers crash, it is part of mountainbiking. Even if i bend a mech hanger in a crash i can usually knock back into shape with a rock or something to make it good enough to get me home. In the event of a crash would yuor system be more or less durable than (say for example) a hydraulic disk brake set? How easy would it be to repair on the trailside (it may be a case of carrying a spare olive rather than a spare powerlink). How easy would your design be to repair at home or would you need to take it to a dealer to protect the warranty?

weight: The current drive systems are not especially light (probably come in at 1.5-2kg or thereabouts for a complete good quality lightweight set (the whole shaboodle). How heavy would your design be?

efficiency: Hydraulic systems tend to be rather inefficient due to the inherent nature of heat build up which causes energy losses in the system. How do you plan to mitigate this. Hydraulics also tend to be quite high pressure. what will yours run at?

Sorry that there are mroe questions than answers and you may have already addressed some of the questions so my apologies for that.

davebee: lot more expensive than a traditional drive system

M.: Yes that is true. But, wenn you need "Rentable bikes" for "Bike Parks" they will cost more but also making money.Have you ever "Performed" on an existing Rental- Bike. I am not even mentioning the poor begginers and thair problems with HI- TECH. Discouraging !!! I am racing, training, tour- Guiding and teaching cycling NOW FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS and I think that, by itself qualify me to talk shit, if I wanted. But I do not.....I know exactly what I am talking about. Only problem,....I am not an engeneer.

davebee: your design be to repair at home or would you need to take it to a dealer to protect the warranty?

M:Think Bigger, think Skiing.

davebee: weight: How heavy would your design be?

M: How heavy are your skies......does it really matter?

davebee: Efficiency: Hydraulic systems tend to be rather inefficient due to the inherent nature of heat build up which causes energy losses in the system. How do you plan to mitigate this. Hydraulics also tend to be quite high pressure.

M: The winnig point !!!..... What Heat? Through what pressure?wir are not talking about tons of power here and everyone seems to ignore this fact.

Light metal (Alu.) low speed, low pressure hyro-pumps on the market return over %97. And I do not want to us "PUMPS", or anything with Piston Aktion....Pistos are dead, so the combustion engienes, the so called, last Bastion of the Ingnorants.

TIMES CHENGES, DINASORS DIE !!!

For a Car/Emmission free future

M.

Look, for someone asking for help you're really coming on pretty strong. Cut down on the preaching and maybe people will be more inclined to listen to your ideas.

So, someone designed a variable-volume hydraulic pump, good for him.

But despite going over the website I can't see how the variable stroke is achieved. I've seen the pics of the crank in the full stroke position and in the zero stroke position-but how is the transition achieved?
What is the degree of adjustability in the system - can it match the span of gearing that a MTB can offer?

Production costs - an ordinary drive train has quite few high precision components, apart from the bearings and freewheel/freehub clutch the rest can be pretty much stamped out from sheet metal. I suppose you'd need far more precision engineering in a hydraulic system.

Seals/ bearings/losses
On a bike seals for the rotating parts are fairly basic, which is OK since they only have to be splash proof. For a hydraulic design they would have to deal with both rotation AND pressure, which in all probability would make them drag more.


davebee: your design be to repair at home or would you need to take it to a dealer to protect the warranty?

M:Think Bigger, think Skiing.

dabac: ??? I don't get it, how would a bike compare to a set of skis? Are you saying it would be as maintenance-free as a set of skis? That comparison is way too lopsided to make any sense.

davebee: weight: How heavy would your design be?

M: How heavy are your skies......does it really matter?

dabac: Weight IS frequently important, first if you're riding in the hills, second it affects the feel and the handling of the bike.
This means there is a strong imperative to keep the size down(as a means of keeping the weight down) - but smaller size also means that the pressure will have to go up in order to achieve the same power transfer. For a car it doesn't matter much, but for a HPV you really want to keep the weight down.

davebee: Efficiency: Hydraulic systems tend to be rather inefficient due to the inherent nature of heat build up which causes energy losses in the system. How do you plan to mitigate this. Hydraulics also tend to be quite high pressure.

M: The winnig point !!!..... What Heat? Through what pressure?wir are not talking about tons of power here and everyone seems to ignore this fact.

dabac: You will get pressure, see above. And heat is not only a function of power transmitted, but also about the size of the power converters. It's all about power-to-weight ratio. Think brakes: the power dissipated during a descent by a drum/coaster brake is the same as the power dissipated by a rim brake for the same descent. Yet overheating the drum brake is quite easy while overheating a rim is quite rare. Discs are sort of intermediate, they are small, can run really hot, and cool off efficiently.

For a cyclist we're looking at maybe 300 W in sustained output, which isn't that much. But it has to be handled by gear weighing in at only a few pounds. And I'm far from certain that this is an easier task than what a car has to handle.

But if one were to use the chain stays as conduits it sure would be a step towards an ultra sleek bike...

Hi,
thanks for your interest. To my Tone,.......I do not care, what people think !

A couple of points:

------------------Are you saying it would be as maintenance-free as a set of skis? YES!

Production costs - an ordinary drive train has quite few high precision components, apart from the bearings and freewheel/freehub clutch the rest can be pretty much stamped out from sheet metal. I suppose you'd need far more precision engineering in a hydraulic system.

M.: This is the difference, I am not talking about ordinary anything.......where have bin Disc Brakes for Bikes 10 -20 years- 30 -40 years ago ? Now days I am not gona hit the trails without!

I blieve, Gears (Gearbox) are passed, Hydlaulic gears are light and don't brake, no warring out, no Chain SUCK, no Dirty Chains...broken gears, brocken chains etc. resulting broken Colar bones and no fun.......

BAD News to Shimano and the co., no not really, because as you said it, it is going to be more expensive then a DH-Bike....but....

Seals/ bearings/losses
On a bike seals for the rotating parts are fairly basic, which is OK since they only have to be splash proof. For a hydraulic design they would have to deal with both rotation AND pressure, which in all probability would make them drag more.

M.: have you ever had a "Rolof Gearhub" in your hands ? Turn that B..ch.this is not sealed...this is braked. People still love that shit! And the Hub is far from perfect.

I don't get it, how would a bike compare to a set of skis?

M.: I am only comparing the two activities (not the equipments), sommer and winter time ski-slope bikking becomming more and more popular the only missing link to get that really masively going is a mainanence free rentable begginer friendly "RENTAL-BIKES".

Hydraulic drive is DA Solution, Man ! Don't you think?

Bye bye

Mehrdad