It's killing me but..........

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Tyson-
Kill the thread????? I hope not. I am one of the "lurkers" who has gained so much from this thread. I hope you keep the converation going. The annual Tuesday night group ride started tonight and I skipped it and went out and did my 2X30's at L4 instead. Based on what I have gained from your conversations with RadDaddyo and others I am much better at focusing and structuring my training time. Just like you I am seeing regular, steady progress that surpasses the improvements I made last year when I saw group rides as the optimal training situation. Because I structured my training all winter I am stronger now at the start of this season than I was at the end of last season. Where will we be by the end of the summer!!! :) :)
Congrats on your progress Curlew, although you don't give any statistics.
As there are probably other lurkers out there, I guess I have to continue bugging RD then!;)

Talking about training, I cocked it up completely today. As you've probably read, I judge how long I've been slogging away by counting songs on my Ipod Shuffle. It's fatal for me to look at the display too soon. Somehow I miscalculated and stopped the 1st "twenty" after only 15 mins.
To cut a long story short, I then did a mixture of 180, 200, 210, 220WAtts and somehow miraculously I burnt the same number of calories as usual.
However, (after a hard day in the gym yesterday) I was by now completely spent. Or so I thought. After 3 minutes of warming down, I thought sod it, this is not good enough and then proceeded to punish myself and did 1 x7 @180W at a killer cadence losing another 80 calories. Then I was spent!! :(

Whether I shall be able to face the gym tomorrow god only knows.

As there are probably other lurkers out there, I guess I have to continue bugging RD then!;)I don't want to go into details yet, but let me give you a preview of coming attractions. There is a largely separate energy system you have not even begun to train. That's what's next after you shatter the 200w FT barrier. In fact, you will probably use this other energy system to finish off your young friend after you've softened him up pretty good with your new FT. Stay tuned.:D

I don't want to go into details yet, but let me give you a preview of coming attractions. There is a largely separate energy system you have not even begun to train. That's what's next after you shatter the 200w FT barrier. In fact, you will probably use this other energy system to finish off your young friend after you've softened him up pretty good with your new FT. Stay tuned.:D
Coincidentally he called me and said what about a ride. I half told a lie and said I was too busy to arrange an exact time but will be OK for a ride in May.
So there we are RD we have 2/3 weeks to get me up to scratch.

I think I'd better establish my new FT next Tuesday. It will be tough but I think I can do it. Btw does 1x5 @180W plus 1x55 @200 W count?:) No rest of course.

Coincidentally he called me and said what about a ride. I half told a lie and said I was too busy to arrange an exact time but will be OK for a ride in May. So there we are RD we have 2/3 weeks to get me up to scratch.No problem. But, stay away from those cream filled whatevers! You've got to get your wife on the program - tell her to stop buying that stuff for awhile (as in, the next few decades).

I think I'd better establish my new FT next Tuesday. It will be tough but I think I can do it. Btw does 1x5 @180W plus 1x55 @200 W count?:) No rest of course.As a good workout, absolutely! That's an AP=NP=198w. Of course, it's not quite 200w.;) If this is your FT test, why not do 5mins at 100w then 60 mins at 200w? Why be a member of the 198w FT club when the 200w FT club is within your reach?:D

No problem. But, stay away from those cream filled whatevers! You've got to get your wife on the program - tell her to stop buying that stuff for awhile (as in, the next few decades).

As a good workout, absolutely! That's an AP=NP=198w. Of course, it's not quite 200w.;) If this is your FT test, why not do 5mins at 100w then 60 mins at 200w? Why be a member of the 198w FT club when the 200w FT club is within your reach?:D
You're a hard taskmaster but OK!:)

You're a hard taskmaster but OK!:)Nah, this stuff is the easy part. We've still got the 120%FT efforts (and more) to come.:D

Nah, this stuff is the easy part. We've still got the 120%FT efforts (and more) to come.:DWhat a shame RD. I didn't tell you did I? I have to visit this sick aunt of mine in Katmandu, so shall be away for a few months. Damn! I was so looking forward to that training.:D

Hey Tyson, if you have your weekly power numbers for your 2x20s can you please list them from the beginning? I am curious about the rate of improvement. If you can also remind me how often are you doing the 2x20's or anything else? IOW, your current training plan. :)

Thank you in advance. You are infact turning into quite an inspiration for us inconsistent fellas :D like me.OK here goes with the week totals starting first week in Feb. Ignore previous figures quoted - these are accurate.

Week (1) 3 x 20 @130W + 1 x 12 @120W Pathetic!

Week (2) 6 x 20 @120W + 1 x 5 @130W A bit better

Week (3) 4 x 20 @140W + 1 x 25 @ 140W + 1x 3 @ 150W Improving

Week (4) 3 x 20 @ 140W + 1 x10 @ 140 Easy week

WeeK (5) 5 x 20 @ 160 W + Sunday (raining) 1 x 55 @140W

Week (6) 3 x 20 @ 160W + 1 x 24 @ 160W + 2 x 20 @ 180W

Week (7) 2 x 20 @ 180W + 1 x 20 @160W Easy week

Week (8) Sorry forgot to log this week

Week (9) 5 x 20 @ 180W + 1 x20 @ 200W

Week (10) 1 x 20 @ 180W + 1 x 15 @ 180W + 2 x 10 @ 180 + 2 x 10 @200

Current Week (11) 3 x 5 @ 180W + 1 x 17 @ 180W + 1 x 15 @ 200 W + 3 x 10 @ 200W + 1 x 8 @ 210W + 1 x 7 @ 220W

So there you have the totals for 10 and a half weeks not including Sunday rides in the mountains from 56 to 75km.

So there you have the totals for 10 and a half weeks not including Sunday rides in the mountains from 56 to 75km.Here's my take on your training volume. Note that I included Week 0 - pre-advice. All numbers in minutes at level (per Andy Coggan's schema).

Week L4 L5 L6 Total
0 57 103 1 161
1 72 0 0 72
2 125 0 0 125
3 105 3 0 108
4 70 0 0 70
5 155 0 0 155
6 124 0 0 124
7 60 0 0 60
8 ? ? ?
9 120 0 0 120
10 75 0 0 75
11 77 15 0 92

It may not be obvious, but there is a huge difference between week 0 and the rest of the weeks. In week 0, you were doing lots of short L5 intervals. Beginning in week 1, you began doing primarily 20min L4 repeats with almost no L5 or L6 time. The weeks that really contributed to your improvement were the ones when you got 120+ mins at L4.:cool:

This is exactly what I wanted to see...Thanks Ty/RDO. :)

BTW, do you ride 1d on/1d off? 3d on/3d off? everyday?
And this is just the interval time isnt it? IOW the long rides are also contributing to your progress. Correct?

This is exactly what I wanted to see...Thanks Ty/RDO. :)

BTW, do you ride 1d on/1d off? 3d on/3d off? everyday?
And this is just the interval time isnt it? IOW the long rides are also contributing to your progress. Correct?Ideally I would like to train Mon/Tue/ Wed in the gym and Sundays out on the road. As you've probably guessed I don't always achieve this. I've only been training seriously for 10 weeks and am not yet the mean, lean fighting machine I intend to be. More like the fat cat in a hat!

I think, in fact I'm sure, you have to listen to what your body is telling you.
This morning here in the land of the rising sun, my brain is saying "hey let's get down the gym and spread some sweat" however, my body is saying "you're not going to the gym today - if you go, you go alone without me."
So I guess the body wins, I will now have 3 days rest and burn up the tyres on Sunday in the mountains.
As to whether the Sunday rides are contributing towards my progres, I would think not, as they never facilitated any progress in the past. What they do do, however, is help towards building my stamina which I need plenty of for June the 4th.

GAMBARIMASU! Which means, battle on etc. TYSON

Here's my take on your training volume. Note that I included Week 0 - pre-advice. All numbers in minutes at level (per Andy Coggan's schema).

Week L4 L5 L6 Total
0 57 103 1 161
1 72 0 0 72
2 125 0 0 125
3 105 3 0 108
4 70 0 0 70
5 155 0 0 155
6 124 0 0 124
7 60 0 0 60
8 ? ? ?
9 120 0 0 120
10 75 0 0 75
11 77 15 0 92

It may not be obvious, but there is a huge difference between week 0 and the rest of the weeks. In week 0, you were doing lots of short L5 intervals. Beginning in week 1, you began doing primarily 20min L4 repeats with almost no L5 or L6 time. The weeks that really contributed to your improvement were the ones when you got 120+ mins at L4.:cool:
IOW I've been slacking for the last month or so. Well, that's encouraging.:(
Bloody hell RD my body is trying to catch up with the extra burden I'm placing on it. You're talking to a geriatric here, not a young buck. I'm sure if I was in my 20s I would be doing 260/280W by now. So go easy on this old frame, I want to be here to grow up with my 7 year old daughter.:)
And my young Japanese wife. (Better put that in as she might sneak a look at the forum.);)

IOW I've been slacking for the last month or so. Well, that's encouraging.:(No, I think there is a lag factor both ways (training effect and detraining effect). I don't think your minutes in a specific level or collectively in the high value levels (L4+) in a given week are all that important. Rather, I think your minutes by level over the course of several weeks matter. I summarized your training the way I did because I think it can be boiled down to that level of simplicity. IOW, forget about how many minutes per day, whether you take a day off between, how many minutes recovery between intervals, etc., etc., etc. What matters is minutes by level in L4+ (assuming they are done at a power/duration combination as prescribed by the schema).

Bloody hell RD my body is trying to catch up with the extra burden I'm placing on it. You're talking to a geriatric here, not a young buck. I'm sure if I was in my 20s I would be doing 260/280W by now. So go easy on this old frame, I want to be here to grow up with my 7 year old daughter.:) And my young Japanese wife. (Better put that in as she might sneak a look at the forum.);)I'm not pushing you. Back off any time you want. I think I'm only providing suggestions for how to achieve your original stated objective. I'm more concerned with how you're going to manage your power on your climb without a PM. That's a much bigger challenge than telling you how to increase sustainable power.

I'm not pushing you. Back off any time you want. I think I'm only providing suggestions for how to achieve your original stated objective. I'm more concerned with how you're going to manage your power on your climb without a PM. That's a much bigger challenge than telling you how to increase sustainable power.
My climb:confused: Do you have one specific climb in mind I don't know about or are you referring to climbs in general?

In all seriousness though, you rate PMs that high? I'm still considering one, but they seem a little technical to me. And I still have to find the instructions in English. Maybe I should order one from overseas.

Back off? Not me - not yet anyway!;)

I'm sure if I was in my 20s I would be doing 260/280W by now.Several members of my weekend riding club in their 30s and 40s would be thrilled with your current power numbers. And they ride every weekend.

My younger brother Tim who lives in Capetown South Africa maybe tuning in here. If you are Tim - Hi!

He's a surfer I think not a cyclist. What about interval training for surfers.

1 x 3 minutes on a 15 footer for a start!:)

My climb:confused: Do you have one specific climb in mind I don't know about or are you referring to climbs in general?I assume you have a specific climb in mind when you ride with your young friend and show off your new climbing power. Maybe not, in which case it's climbs in general. Either way, climbs are all about managing your power right to the edge of your limits. With a PM, it's easy. Without a PM, you can use speed if it's a known grade and winds are not too strong but most climbs vary in grade somewhat from bottom to top.

In all seriousness though, you rate PMs that high? I'm still considering one, but they seem a little technical to me. And I still have to find the instructions in English. Maybe I should order one from overseas.For managing power at or close to your limits, absolutely! They aren't any more technical than reading the tachometer in a car. You've been using a PM for months now. What's the difference?

For managing power at or close to your limits, absolutely! They aren't any more technical than reading the tachometer in a car. You've been using a PM for months now. What's the difference?
I'm sure I read somewhere in this forum, there's a lot of data to be analized with PMs. Perhaps I've got my wires crossed.:(

I'm sure I read somewhere in this forum, there's a lot of data to be analized with PMs. Perhaps I've got my wires crossed.:(There's a lot of post-ride analysis one can do with PM data. But, used for their most simplistic purpose, they allow you to ride at your pre-determined target power. In your case, you might want to do a 15 minute climb at your FT=200w. With a PM, you manage your intensity with the PM and you don't worry about HR or speed.

There's a lot of post-ride analysis one can do with PM data. But, used for their most simplistic purpose, they allow you to ride at your pre-determined target power. In your case, you might want to do a 15 minute climb at your FT=200w. With a PM, you manage your intensity with the PM and you don't worry about HR or speed.Sounds good, anyone got one they don't use and want to get rid of?
PM me if so.:)

RD wrote:

want to do a 15 minute climb at your FT=200w.
Jumping the gun a bit here aren't we?:D