It's killing me but..........

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Have you ever picked up on how little he actually trains? I think we need a new power metric: FTP/weekly training hrs. I think Andy's metric is ~43.

:D

I'm guessing that Andy's FTP would drop significantly if he was forced to do all of his riding on the road (and if he did not increase his training time).

Probably. Either that, or I'd have to be doing intervals practically every day.

I can't find much info on the Velodyne resistance unit is it the same eddy current type that most ergos use?

Yes.

:D



Probably. Either that, or I'd have to be doing intervals practically every day.Are you saying that there's something about riding on the road that drops your threshold? That is, if you do the same training you do now, and then add regular road riding your threshold would drop? The reason I ask is I switched from riding intervals on my Velodyne to riding intervals up hills and my threshold increase stalled. I'm trying to figure out if it's the higher intensity relative to my threshold or something else about riding the hills that caused the stall. From experience I know if I go back to doing 91-95% on the Velodyne that I'll start inproving again.

Are you saying that there's something about riding on the road that drops your threshold? That is, if you do the same training you do now, and then add regular road riding your threshold would drop? The reason I ask is I switched from riding intervals on my Velodyne to riding intervals up hills and my threshold increase stalled. I'm trying to figure out if it's the higher intensity relative to my threshold or something else about riding the hills that caused the stall. From experience I know if I go back to doing 91-95% on the Velodyne that I'll start inproving again.I don't know what Andy would say, but the basis of my speculation was simply that ergometer (or trainer) rides are the most efficient use of training time known to man. If one has an hour and no more, it's not even close -- do an ergometer or trainer workout. Some would rather eat nails than ride inside for an hour. I understand, but I think it's clear that there is no better way to get high-quality training time with the maximum percentage of time spent targeting the exact adaptations one wants to target. And I sort of think Andy knows how to target adaptations.

Some would rather eat nails than ride inside for an hour. I'll take mine 10-penny size, thanks. 15 1/2 hours outside this week. All gravy.

Have you ever picked up on how little he actually trains? I think we need a new power metric: FTP/weekly training hrs. I think Andy's metric is ~43. I think mine is ~20. I'm guessing that Andy's FTP would drop significantly if he was forced to do all of his riding on the road (and if he did not increase his training time).
All andy needs to do now is ride 20 hours a week for one week and he would have a pretty frightening FTP :eek: :D .

Just checked in and was very surprised to see 2 first time posters in this thread after 107 pages. I have no intention of checking back through 107 pages to confirm the veracity of this statement though.:)

Back to the Velodyne; I guess my questions are directed to Andy as he is in possesion of said machine. I intend to use my trainer in my teaching room and when I have a lesson I shall have to move the trainer out through the French windows onto the balconey as I do now with my bike every day.

Q1) How heavy is the Velodyne in total?

Q2) Is the display section easily detachable, as on occasion it will obviously be raining when I have a lesson.

Q3) Is it fairly easy to set up (and use)?

P.S. Have almost persuaded my wife, but havent told her the price. Shall leave that bombshell for later.:D

Just checked in and was very surprised to see 2 first time posters in this thread after 107 pages. I have no intention of checking back through 107 pages to confirm the veracity of this statement though.:)

Back to the Velodyne; I guess my questions are directed to Andy as he is in possesion of said machine. I intend to use my trainer in my teaching room and when I have a lesson I shall have to move the trainer out through the French windows onto the balconey as I do now with my bike every day.

Q1) How heavy is the Velodyne in total?

Q2) Is the display section easily detachable, as on occasion it will obviously be raining when I have a lesson.

Q3) Is it fairly easy to set up (and use)?

P.S. Have almost persuaded my wife, but havent told her the price. Shall leave that bombshell for later.:DAndy or one of the other few who have a Velodyne can offer the best advice in this area, but I don't think the Velodyne is designed to be moved around much. As to weight, the flywheel alone is 20lbs, so I think you'd be looking at something like 100lbs (piece of cake for a former lifter like you :D). You would probably need a couple of dollies, e.g., http://www.usmarkerboard.com/markerboards-easels/page78.html. I think if I did not have a room where I could leave my trainer permanently set up, I would go with the CompuTrainer Pro. They make a travel case, presumably water resistant (http://www.racermateinc.com/accessories.asp) and you're looking at maybe 5mins to set it up or break it down and move it. And, it's a slightly smaller bombshell for your wife. The key thing is the ergometer feature and both devices have this.

. If one has an hour and no more, it's not even close -- do an ergometer or trainer workout.I would respectfully disagree with that statement. If one is careful about choosing routes, even living in an urban environment, it's easy to be very efficient with outdoor training. I'm able to do a 6x5:00 vo2 workout in under an hour, including 'warm-up' and 'cool-down'--but I can do these at a much higher intensity (at least 10%) than I could ever do on the trainer. Of course, this is due in part to my ineptitude/lack of desire to ride the trainer, but I don't think I'm alone in this.

My in-season favorite training ride is a 2x16:00 followed by 2-3x4:00, and I can manage this ride in about an hour as well.

I'll admit, I'm lucky to have an uninterrupted 5 minute hill 2 minutes from my door, and a 20 minute route about 5 minutes away, but everywhere I've travelled, I've always been able to find suitable routes. I think in part it just depends in how badly you want to stay off of the trainer!

I would respectfully disagree with that statement. If one is careful about choosing routes, even living in an urban environment, it's easy to be very efficient with outdoor training. I'm able to do a 6x5:00 vo2 workout in under an hour, including 'warm-up' and 'cool-down'--but I can do these at a much higher intensity (at least 10%) than I could ever do on the trainer. Of course, this is due in part to my ineptitude/lack of desire to ride the trainer, but I don't think I'm alone in this.

My in-season favorite training ride is a 2x16:00 followed by 2-3x4:00, and I can manage this ride in about an hour as well.

I'll admit, I'm lucky to have an uninterrupted 5 minute hill 2 minutes from my door, and a 20 minute route about 5 minutes away, but everywhere I've travelled, I've always been able to find suitable routes. I think in part it just depends in how badly you want to stay off of the trainer!Well, I'll speak for myself. No matter how hard I try, it's a real struggle for me to get more than 50% in L4-L7 on the road, whereas I regularly get 50-80% in L4-L7 on my trainer. Given that I am never actually targeting anything but L4-L7, this is a crucial measure of efficiency to me. IOW, the ratio of time spent doing the high-intensity efforts that are what the ride is all about divided by total ride time pretty well nets out the benefits/cost ratio of the ride. Even L5/L6 rides are in the vicinity of 50%. Sure, it's possible to use training time equally or almost as efficiently on the road, but I'm saying it's highly likely that trainer rides will be a lot more efficient than road rides. With all due respect, I think your rides are the exception and not the norm.

Well, I'll speak for myself. No matter how hard I try, it's a real struggle for me to get more than 50% in L4-L7 on the road, whereas I regularly get 50-80% in L4-L7 on my trainer. Given that I am never actually targeting anything but L4-L7, this is a crucial measure of efficiency to me. IOW, the ratio of time spent doing the high-intensity efforts that are what the ride is all about divided by total ride time pretty well nets out the benefits/cost ratio of the ride. Even L5/L6 rides are in the vicinity of 50%. Sure, it's possible to use training time equally or almost as efficiently on the road, but I'm saying it's highly likely that trainer rides will be a lot more efficient than road rides. With all due respect, I think your rides are the exception and not the norm.My training efficency metric is a little different. I'm more limited by the amount of recovery needed than by actual time. So I look at (L4-minutes)/TSS. The end result is I spend a lot of time of the trainer, or I drive to my training hills rather than ride.

My training efficency metric is a little different. I'm more limited by the amount of recovery needed than by actual time. So I look at (L4-minutes)/TSS. The end result is I spend a lot of time of the trainer, or I drive to my training hills rather than ride.As a matter of fact, the metric I look at first is L4-L7 TSS divided by total ride TSS. I like to see numbers ~50%. It's easy because my parsing app generates the number for me. Using TSS weights the higher intensity segments higher which is appropriate.

As a matter of fact, the metric I look at first is L4-L7 TSS divided by total ride TSS. I like to see numbers ~50%. It's easy because my parsing app generates the number for me. Using TSS weights the higher intensity segments higher which is appropriate.Makes sense to me. Are you going to publish the app some day it could be useful to a lot of people. How's the document you were working on to post here going?

Makes sense to me. Are you going to publish the app some day it could be useful to a lot of people. How's the document you were working on to post here going?The most likely scenario (my preferred scenario) is that the app will become a part of WKO+. Yes, I have made progress on the document I promised. It keeps getting interrupted by actual work (I hate it when that happens), but it will get done. The football playoffs help because there are so many commercial interruptions. I'll post it here and in its own thread (it will get lost here). Good to know a few of you are keeping an eye out for it. I guess it better be good.;)

Andy or one of the other few who have a Velodyne can offer the best advice in this area, but I don't think the Velodyne is designed to be moved around much. As to weight, the flywheel alone is 20lbs, so I think you'd be looking at something like 100lbs (piece of cake for a former lifter like you :D). You would probably need a couple of dollies, e.g., http://www.usmarkerboard.com/markerboards-easels/page78.html. I think if I did not have a room where I could leave my trainer permanently set up, I would go with the CompuTrainer Pro. They make a travel case, presumably water resistant (http://www.racermateinc.com/accessories.asp) and you're looking at maybe 5mins to set it up or break it down and move it. And, it's a slightly smaller bombshell for your wife. The key thing is the ergometer feature and both devices have this.
LOL Yeah, it would be piece of cake if they were cylindrical plates on the end of a straight bar. I could carry that out above my head.;)

Thanks for the dolly link. I've always been partial to dollies.:rolleyes:

On a more serious note; I am now presented with a double dilemma - training in a greenhouse and alternatively having a 100 lb monstosity in my teaching room. I suppose the solution is to move house.

Today was our city's annual roadrace day. There's a serious 10km race with a first prize of a trip to Hawaii, and a 3km fun run for familes. I ran with my wife and 8 year old daughter. Would you believe we woke up to the first snowstorm of the winter. By the time we finished there was 3-4 inches on the road.
I held back for 2 km then I had to let rip, overtaking more than 100 runners in that last km including dozens of young guys doing the 10km race at the side of us. There's still speed in the old legs, and am seriously considering doing the 10km course next year where there is a 50 and over category. I'm sure I could still massacre many 40-50 year olds. This shouldn't affect my cycling training as it's a slack period in the calendar anyway.

So how do I make a final decision vis-a-vis the trainer? Decisions, decisions!:D TYSON

So how do I make a final decision vis-a-vis the trainer? Decisions, decisions!:D TYSONBuy both, claim the deduction for your internet cycling consultancy.

Run a forum poll

toss a coin

put out a tender

talk to suppliers and see who actually wants your business....

Tyson, you done any of the races listed under "bikenavi.net"?

http://www.bikenavi.net/gp_2006/shinshiro/course.html
http://www.bikenavi.net/gp_2006/fuji/course.html
http://www.bikenavi.net/gp_2006/yokohama/course.html
http://www.bikenavi.net/gp_2006/shimofusa/course.html
http://www.bikenavi.net/gp_2006/ashigara/course.html

They're all up in the Tokyo area from what I can tell - which is a 10-12 hour drive for me. But it's pretty tempting to head up there for at least the Fuji "hill" climb event. The The Yokohama course looks interesting too. (in/around Nissan Stadium)

So how do I make a final decision vis-a-vis the trainer? Decisions, decisions!:D TYSONI vote for CT + PT SL. Cost is the same as the Velodyne and you have the best of both worlds: ergometer + PM for your bike.:D

I vote for CT + PT SL. Cost is the same as the Velodyne and you have the best of both worlds: ergometer + PM for your bike.:D
Now that makes sense. It seems to me if I've understood things correctly, the only sacifice I shall be making is the more natural feel of the Velodyne.

I'm starting to think PT SL, but it may toward late summer or fall if I choose to go that route.

For the moment I will continue the unmonitored training on the spin bike. I did get the KK trainer with power computer, but I have not used it much at this point (have not attached the computer yet). I believe I will end up using that on bad weather days and to use for active recovery since I cannot seem discipline myself to ride slow on the road.

All I know is that a lot of people in the group are making complimentary comments at the end of the ride about my progress. It's good to be in this newbie state where one can make big advancements with some good effort. At some point I know progress will slow down.