It's killing me but..........

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I just successfully resisted an unnecessary bowl of "honey bunches of oats" cereal that stuff is addictive I think they spray it with crack. Now my wife is eating a bowl of the stuff right next to me help.... temperate in all things...temperate in all things......

So WD, if I can do it so can you, just tell the little voice to pee off!
How's your weight at the moment RD? You're very quiet.;)

I just successfully resisted an unnecessary bowl of "honey bunches of oats" cereal that stuff is addictive I think they spray it with crack. Now my wife is eating a bowl of the stuff right next to me help.... temperate in all things...temperate in all things......
Yep, moderation is the key. Depriving yourself competely of something you enjoy is a psychological strain and usually results in a return to bad eating habits, only worse than before.
I'm really looking forward to this coming Friday, when I shall indulge in a slice of caramel pound cake in Starbucks.

Keep talking to yourself WD, and imagine being at the start of your next race at a trim racing weight and raring to go. TYSON;)

Tyson,

Do you have any update on your progress toward the 300 club?

I have been stuck at 230 over 20 minutes for the past year. Since I mostly follow the power training forum, when a couple of months ago I discovered this thread and I just finished reading it around Christmas. It certainly has been inspiring to say the least.

I have only about an hour to train on weekdays, so I try to get at least 3 hours of L4 per week. As a result, I was able to break through with 2x20 at 240. I also have difficulty with 4x5s. By the 4th, I can hardly stay above 260, barely in the L5 zone. But I'll keep plugging away at the L4/L5s.

RD doesn't like goals, but I need to be able to do 270 sustainable, based on a power file from a race last summer, in which I lasted < 10 minutes. They typically start out really fast, drop 1/4 or 1/3 of the field and then settle in. Unless everyone trains with power and gets faster this year...

2x20 @ 250 by 2/1
2x20 @ 260 by 4/1
2x20 @ 270 by 6/1
2x20 @ 280 by ???
...
Somewhere in there is my genetic ceiling.

Having the car with horsepower is one thing, there's also the driver. But that's another thread.

RD doesn't like goals, but I need to be able to do 270 sustainableLOL. Well done.:D BTW, it's not so much that I dislike goals, it's that I think all progress (even 1W) should be celebrated and my concern with goals is that one is disappointed because he/she didn't reach the goal (e.g., 270W) in spite of the fact that he/she increased sustainable power by 45W. Another way of putting it is that I don't want a goal getting in the way of progress.:D

Will you be disapointed if you don't reach this one? "FTP: 300W (plan to get back to ~325W by June)":)

LOL. Well done.:D BTW, it's not so much that I dislike goals, it's that I think all progress (even 1W) should be celebrated and my concern with goals is that one is disappointed because he/she didn't reach the goal (e.g., 270W) in spite of the fact that he/she increased sustainable power by 45W. Another way of putting it is that I don't want a goal getting in the way of progress.:D

Will you be disapointed if you don't reach this one? "FTP: 300W (plan to get back to ~325W by June)":)Nah, it's just a number. If I hadn't been there before I wouldn't even have it as a target. I never have a target number unless I've been there before. Until I get there, I feel like an explorer wondering what's over the horizon. I'll be disappointed if I don't beat last year's time up Mt. Charleston.

Tyson,

Do you have any update on your progress toward the 300 club?

I have been stuck at 230 over 20 minutes for the past year. Since I mostly follow the power training forum, when a couple of months ago I discovered this thread and I just finished reading it around Christmas. It certainly has been inspiring to say the least.

I have only about an hour to train on weekdays, so I try to get at least 3 hours of L4 per week. As a result, I was able to break through with 2x20 at 240. I also have difficulty with 4x5s. By the 4th, I can hardly stay above 260, barely in the L5 zone. But I'll keep plugging away at the L4/L5s.

RD doesn't like goals, but I need to be able to do 270 sustainable, based on a power file from a race last summer, in which I lasted < 10 minutes. They typically start out really fast, drop 1/4 or 1/3 of the field and then settle in. Unless everyone trains with power and gets faster this year...

2x20 @ 250 by 2/1
2x20 @ 260 by 4/1
2x20 @ 270 by 6/1
2x20 @ 280 by ???
...
Somewhere in there is my genetic ceiling.

Having the car with horsepower is one thing, there's also the driver. But that's another thread.
I'm not sure what to say to you WG. I don't want to give you any wrong advice. First, you don't say what your FTP is, so I don't know what % of FTP your intervals are based on. FWIW, I think have been doing my 20 min intervals too close to my max. As a consequence I haven't been doing enough intervals over the course of a week. My problem has now been compounded by a gym effected greatly by global warming.:D

As RD has said on more than one occasion, it is better to do more intervals at around 85/90% of max. (I think I'm correct here) Another thing I've found, is that when you are doing your intervals at close to 100%, they are both mentally and physically exhausting. Save the exhausting workouts for L5,6,7 workouts. However, even L5 need not be done at a level where you feel you are going to bring up your last meal. By working below your max and doing more intervals will benefit you in the long run.
To answer your question, I'm a little in no man's land at present. My first aim in the new year is to get my weight down. I dipped below 74Kilos this morning from 75.6K last Monday. I'm also seriously considering buying a trainer sooner rather than later.
My immediate goal is to dip below 70Kilos for the first time; build up the mileage doing mostly L2, L3 interspersed with the occasional L4, possibly L5 interval workout. Come March, I shall start insane training with no target FTP, just be satisfied with what I achieve. Should I achieve 300W in the process -great.

Keep up the good work WG, you will show those guys your back wheel one day.

I'm also seriously considering buying a trainer sooner rather than later.If you're feeling flush, get a CompuTrainer Pro (US$1600). If you're feeling broke from the holidays, get a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine (US$275). The cool thing about the CT is the ability to program workouts and, as the infomercial pitch man says, "Set it and forget it." Whatever form of torture your mind can come up with you can program.:D

If you're feeling flush, get a CompuTrainer Pro (US$1600). If you're feeling broke from the holidays, get a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine (US$275). The cool thing about the CT is the ability to program workouts and, as the infomercial pitch man says, "Set it and forget it." Whatever form of torture your mind can come up with you can program.:D
RD, How does that compare with the Cycleops Pro 300PT as a matter of interest?

RD, How does that compare with the Cycleops Pro 300PT as a matter of interest?The 300PT is a complete indoor bike with power meter. It is highly adjustable and has the PowerTap power meter system. So, it's a good solution for riding with power but at $1900 one should at least consider the CompuTrainer Pro ($1550). The CT is a trainer/ergometer and you use your own bike. But, the difference between a trainer and an ergometer is huge. With an ergometer, you program a workout (in power) and then just ride. The ergometer adjusts resistance to give you the pre-defined intensity regardless of gear or cadence. If power is set for 275W, you can ride at a cadence of 90 or 95 or 100 or whatever you want. Power is 275W, period. Not that you can't manage your own power with the 300PT or the KK Road Machine (managing speed, which translates to power). The Velodyne is a variation on the CT, with a heavier flywheel and thus more road-like feel. I would choose Velodyne first, then CT, then 300PT, then KK, depending on how rich I felt that day.

I would choose Velodyne first.

Well since that's what I think Dr Andrew Coggan uses for training indoors I would have to agree!

Well since that's what I think Dr Andrew Coggan uses for training indoors I would have to agree!Have you ever picked up on how little he actually trains? I think we need a new power metric: FTP/weekly training hrs. I think Andy's metric is ~43. I think mine is ~20. I'm guessing that Andy's FTP would drop significantly if he was forced to do all of his riding on the road (and if he did not increase his training time).

The Velodyne is a variation on the CT, with a heavier flywheel and thus more road-like feel. I would choose Velodyne first, then CT, then 300PT, then KK, depending on how rich I felt that day.
It looks good Rd, but 3000 dollars!?!/!?:eek:
Is there no way of getting round this price? Also I dread to think what the cost of delivery would be to Japan.

I'm not sure what to say to you WG. I don't want to give you any wrong advice. First, you don't say what your FTP is, so I don't know what % of FTP your intervals are based on. FWIW, I think have been doing my 20 min intervals too close to my max. As a consequence I haven't been doing enough intervals over the course of a week. My problem has now been compounded by a gym effected greatly by global warming.:D

To answer your question, my FTP is about 235, maybe 240. 2 days ago, I sat and cranked out 235 for 45 minutes continuous since I was short on time. I still felt like there was something left in the tank. I use NetAthlon (for motivation, Powertap for power measurement) and just watch the laps go by of the velodrome course. I'm 65kg at 38 years. 240 would make my ratio 3.69 W/kg. But I've got a lot more training and more years to get to 5.0 W/kg. But in another study posted on one of the forums (can't remember), they said that *Absolute power* and not Power/Weight ratio that affected speed in a 40K TT. So being smaller and able to generate less power is a disadvantage. Unless it's uphill, then it's directly proportional, I think.

I've been doing 2x20 at 240, which is 100%. I'm trying to resist the urge to push it, since others have suggested more volume at 90% is better. But 3x20 results in a 90 minute workout, with warmup and cooldown & rest intervals.

But 3x20 results in a 90 minute workout, with warmup and cooldown & rest intervals.
I only do a 5 minute warmup and warmdown. Perhaps you would be better doing 2x30 if you're short of time, with no more than 2-5 minutes rest between intervals.

I do cycle 5 minutes on my shopping bike to the gym and back, which acts as part of my warmup and warmdown though.

Btw, from people who have posted in this thread, it seems that 230-250W FTP is a good average, and as RD said, a lot of people would be happy with a 250W FTP.
Definitely not to be sneered at.;) Tyson

Nah, it's just a number. If I hadn't been there before I wouldn't even have it as a target. I never have a target number unless I've been there before. Until I get there, I feel like an explorer wondering what's over the horizon. I'll be disappointed if I don't beat last year's time up Mt. Charleston.
LOL and you'll be even more disappointed if you should finish behind me.:D

It looks good Rd, but 3000 dollars!?!/!?:eek:
Is there no way of getting round this price? Also I dread to think what the cost of delivery would be to Japan.No, I'm afraid there isn't. But, the CT is ~$1550 in the US and it is much smaller and lighter than the Velodyne. Granted, it's not cheap but look at it this way. You ride ~5 hrs/wk on a trainer, right? That's ~260 hrs/yr. In 5 yrs, that's 1300 hrs. That works out to ~$1/hr for a CompuTrainer and ~$2/hr for the Velodyne. To me, that's a good value proposition. My scarcest resource is training time, without question. My cycling equipment investment easily exceeds $10K (and will soon approach $20K) and that's cheap compared with lots of hobbies. So, even a Velodyne is less than 25% of my current cycling investment and half that for my future cycling investment. An ergometer doesn't guarantee an increase in sustainable power. But, an ergometer plus a well-conceived training plan plus the personal discipline to do the workouts = sustainable power! As you said in one of your recent posts, "I want more power!" Same here. I put more power at the top of my 2007 wish list. It comes ahead of a new TT bike, new wheels or anything else. Without the power, those things are worthless anyway. With the power, I can really put those things to good use. I'm going to put my money where my priorities are: disciplined training designed to extract every available watt of available power in my body.:D

LOL and you'll be even more disappointed if you should finish behind me.:DThat's where you're wrong. I would be thrilled to watch you ride off and leave me behind. I would only be disappointed if I didn't have a good ride approaching my potential. There's always someone out there with more power than me. Being beat doesn't bother me. Being stupid bothers me.

I can't find much info on the Velodyne resistance unit is it the same eddy current type that most ergos use?

No, I'm afraid there isn't. But, the CT is ~$1550 in the US and it is much smaller and lighter than the Velodyne. Granted, it's not cheap but look at it this way. You ride ~5 hrs/wk on a trainer, right? That's ~260 hrs/yr. In 5 yrs, that's 1300 hrs. That works out to ~$1/hr for a CompuTrainer and ~$2/hr for the Velodyne. To me, that's a good value proposition. My scarcest resource is training time, without question. My cycling equipment investment easily exceeds $10K (and will soon approach $20K) and that's cheap compared with lots of hobbies. So, even a Velodyne is less than 25% of my current cycling investment and half that for my future cycling investment. An ergometer doesn't guarantee an increase in sustainable power. But, an ergometer plus a well-conceived training plan plus the personal discipline to do the workouts = sustainable power! As you said in one of your recent posts, "I want more power!" Same here. I put more power at the top of my 2007 wish list. It comes ahead of a new TT bike, new wheels or anything else. Without the power, those things are worthless anyway. With the power, I can really put those things to good use. I'm going to put my money where my priorities are: disciplined training designed to extract every available watt of available power in my body.:D

I can't find much info on the Velodyne resistance unit is it the same eddy current type that most ergos use?LOL. Yeah, their website leaves a bit to be desired as far as product and technical details. I don't have mine yet, so I can't speak from personal knowledge. In fact, my first ergometer will probably be the CT because I'm going to be a bit of a road warrior again and I want something I can take with me. Andy Coggan is the resident expert on the Velodyne. IIRC, he has owned at least one Velodyne for a long time (>10yrs?) and I think he said once that he has never found anything better.