It's killing me but..........

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It was definitely a good run. Too bad it couldn't live to see 1500 posts. ;)

:)
Yeah, what a shame!http://forums.imesh.com/forums/images/smiles/005.gif

Well done W4S! Unfortunately you have posted at the demise of this thread. :DBut why's the thread going away? Seems like you're using an approach that's working well for you. I'd be interested in hearing how things go this next season. TSS, TSB, CTL or not. Your using an alternative method that's easy to implement. There are advantages to simplicity.

Rapdaddy, What ever happend to "The Document?"

Rapdaddy, What ever happend to "The Document?"Thanks for reminding me that I need to finish the document and post it. I have been distracted the last few days launching a new cycling club, but I think the flurry of activity will subside after tomorrow. I'll get back to that and try to post it by the end of the week. Thanks again for the reminder -- I want to check it off as "Done."

But why's the thread going away? Seems like you're using an approach that's working well for you. I'd be interested in hearing how things go this next season. TSS, TSB, CTL or not. Your using an alternative method that's easy to implement. There are advantages to simplicity.OK, perhaps demise was too strong a word. However, this thread will never be the same again. It survived mainly because of the rapport between RD and myself. Without RDs input the thread is simply a monologue by yours truly. As I've decided to do KISS workouts, there is no longer a need for RD to spend his valuable time here.

I shall however, report any dramatic improvements (should they happen:rolleyes: ).

From now on until the new year, as I said, I intend to do mainly L3 workouts interspersed with occasional L4 workouts at around 85% FTP, i.e. 2x30 @ 240W or perhaps 3x20 @ 240W. So there will not be much if anything to report on before January.

2007 will see a power hungry aggressive rider taking the stage.;)

Of course this doesn't mean others following RDs advice should hesitate in asking for his advice. RD as you know is always more than willing to offer assistance with training.

From now on until the new year, as I said, I intend to do mainly L3 workouts interspersed with occasional L4 workouts at around 85% FTP, i.e. 2x30 @ 240W or perhaps 3x20 @ 240W. So there will not be much if anything to report on before January.
Out of curosity what's you max 20min power right now?

Out of curosity what's you max 20min power right now?
Sorry for the delay in responding W4S. I'm really still only getting into training. Can I answer your question at the end of next week?

Of couse.

I just hit 255 max 20min power last week. I started doing L4 workouts at 228 since then and found they were pretty hard recovery wise. I did 5hr L4 since then and feel like it's time to re-test since my workouts are almost getting too easy and it doesn't take much to recover from them. 255 is the most I've done on my trainer for 20min by the way. I started ramping up from 1-2hr of L4/week in the fall starting a couple of weeks ago. Hope this keeps up!

Of couse.

I just hit 255 max 20min power last week. I started doing L4 workouts at 228 since then and found they were pretty hard recovery wise. I did 5hr L4 since then and feel like it's time to re-test since my workouts are almost getting too easy and it doesn't take much to recover from them. 255 is the most I've done on my trainer for 20min by the way. I started ramping up from 1-2hr of L4/week in the fall starting a couple of weeks ago. Hope this keeps up!Cool.:cool: It's really neat when these start to kick in, isn't it? You'll probably be able to increase your weekly volume after awhile also.

Of couse.

I just hit 255 max 20min power last week. I started doing L4 workouts at 228 since then and found they were pretty hard recovery wise. I did 5hr L4 since then and feel like it's time to re-test since my workouts are almost getting too easy and it doesn't take much to recover from them. 255 is the most I've done on my trainer for 20min by the way. I started ramping up from 1-2hr of L4/week in the fall starting a couple of weeks ago. Hope this keeps up!
LOL Looks like I'll have to get my finger out if I want to stay with you.

Make be feel better and tell me you're half my age!:D

LOL Looks like I'll have to get my finger out if I want to stay with you.

Make be feel better and tell me you're half my age!:DI wish I were, but just about to hit 52. I want to kick some young 40 something butts in some double centuries in Califorina this spring and summer. So I'm concentrating on sustainable power. Last year I noticed that that top two people on the Devil Mountain Double (205mi and >18K climbing) were regular UCI racers in their mid 40s. They don't do high volume (at least not like an ultra rider would do), but get lots of intensity in their races. So this year I'm switching my approach. I'm a total numbers gear head and chart my progress, but I like RD's simple approach of 90% duration. I had no idea I could do the amount of intensity I've ramped up to until I read this thread. I spent the last 6 months doing bairly enough intensity to increase my threshold (60-120min), but now I'm running out of time and have stepped on the gas so to speak to see how I adapt with more L4 volume.

From what I understand I don't need L6 or L7 for ultras, and L5 is not needed until my VO2Max starts to limit my FT which I don't think I'm at right now. My power profile shows my 5min max power is about 4-5 rows above my FTP on Andy's power profile chart.

Cool.:cool: It's really neat when these start to kick in, isn't it? You'll probably be able to increase your weekly volume after awhile also.The L4 "big" volume is a real discovery for me. Also getting the intensity level right was a problem for me (I was going too hard before). I'm doing everything on a Velodyne in the garage with lots of videos for entertainment. My only limiting factor is my recovery time. I'm not doing anything at this point but L4, L4, and L4. I'm running some experiements to see what I can tollerate, and what various L4 feel like. Anything else will complicate the picture right now. Once I can make sense out of things and get a feel for dose/response, I figure I can add other things if needed like L5.

I'm doing everything on a Velodyne in the garage with lots of videos for entertainment.Cool setup.:cool: Now all you need is a high-altitude simulator and you'll have the perfect setup (oh, and a full-size color photograph of a charging Bengal tiger on the wall behind you).:D

(oh, and a full-size color photograph of a charging Bengal tiger on the wall behind you).:DWhat's wrong with a real one?

What's wrong with a real one?Cost of the food.:D

Not to mention the large cat litter and catflap you would need.:D

In my former competitive bodybuilding days this would be my off season, which means bulking up trying to get heavy as possible and lift as heavy as possible. This also meant that I was go on an eating binge at the holidays.

However, this year is different. I have been shooting for my spring time goal to ride with the fast riders in my club (could be the near equivalent of RD's "no mercy riders":)) and to improve body composition so not much cheating this holiday season.

The two things I have noticed (since I cannot track data yet) is that I have lost another 5 lbs and yet I am still holding on to lean mass (body composition improvement) and the really motivating thing is that I have been riding with the faster riders in the club for most of the route on the last several rides.

One of the riders told me at the end, "I kept looking around and you were there." I also did several pulls, but I still cannot hang on for the entire ride. I still get dropped about 5 to 10 miles from the end of a 50 to 60 mile ride.

I believe one factor besides the hard work that I am doing on the spin bike through the week is that many of these riders are not training as hard so I may have advanced a little and they may have dropped back a little, but I am still encouraged since my goals were for late spring and I seem to progressing earlier than I had predicted.

Motivated Newbie

In my former competitive bodybuilding days this would be my off season, which means bulking up trying to get heavy as possible and lift as heavy as possible. This also meant that I was go on an eating binge at the holidays.

However, this year is different. I have been shooting for my spring time goal to ride with the fast riders in my club (could be the near equivalent of RD's "no mercy riders":)) and to improve body composition so not much cheating this holiday season.

The two things I have noticed (since I cannot track data yet) is that I have lost another 5 lbs and yet I am still holding on to lean mass (body composition improvement) and the really motivating thing is that I have been riding with the faster riders in the club for most of the route on the last several rides.

One of the riders told me at the end, "I kept looking around and you were there." I also did several pulls, but I still cannot hang on for the entire ride. I still get dropped about 5 to 10 miles from the end of a 50 to 60 mile ride.

I believe one factor besides the hard work that I am doing on the spin bike through the week is that many of these riders are not training as hard so I may have advanced a little and they may have dropped back a little, but I am still encouraged since my goals were for late spring and I seem to progressing earlier than I had predicted.

Motivated NewbieGreat progress. Actually, the best thing you can do at this point of the season is to not worry too much about getting dropped. Rather, I recommend that you go to the front as often as possible and pull as long as you can without slowing down the ride pace too much. It is the pulls (and the total ride intensity) that will stimulate the adaptations. After awhile, you'll be able to stay with them to the end. Hopefully, your ride mates will understand what you're doing and will let you hang on front as long as you want. I usually leave a guy on front as long as he wants to be there. Unfortunately, there are others who will jump out of the paceline and go to the front and take over if they feel the pace is not fast enough. I hope you don't have too many of these types. It's almost perverse -- you have to work at getting dropped to eventually avoid getting dropped.

Great progress. Actually, the best thing you can do at this point of the season is to not worry too much about getting dropped. Rather, I recommend that you go to the front as often as possible and pull as long as you can without slowing down the ride pace too much. It is the pulls (and the total ride intensity) that will stimulate the adaptations. After awhile, you'll be able to stay with them to the end. Hopefully, your ride mates will understand what you're doing and will let you hang on front as long as you want. I usually leave a guy on front as long as he wants to be there. Unfortunately, there are others who will jump out of the paceline and go to the front and take over if they feel the pace is not fast enough. I hope you don't have too many of these types. It's almost perverse -- you have to work at getting dropped to eventually avoid getting dropped.Thanks for the assurance and advice because I did just that on the last ride. I was following the ride leader for the slow group and was about to run over her and no one from the fast group looked motivated to break off so I went ahead since I had a cue sheet. I rode by myself for about 5 miles with no one behind me until a few started to come up and then I led that group for another 5 miles. It was cold and they just didn't seem motivated to push hard so I kept pushing the pace and they stayed with me. Around 20 miles into the ride they started taking turns pulling so I then started to draft in hopes of saving something for the end of the ride.

What was really neat to me is that one of the fastest riders came back to look for me when I got dropped. I told him I was okay and he rode with me for a little while trying to motivate me, but I had very little left. I started getting spasms in my medialis everytime I stood to climb so I gave him assurance to go catch the group and that I would be okay. That was a really neat experience and perhaps a sign of respect to have one of these guys come back because they typically don't do this.

Thanks again for the assurance that I did the right thing by trying to push the pace. I felt like I had to do something because it would have drove me crazy to ride at the "winter pace".

What was really neat to me is that one of the fastest riders came back to look for me when I got dropped. I told him I was okay and he rode with me for a little while trying to motivate me, but I had very little left. I started getting spasms in my medialis everytime I stood to climb so I gave him assurance to go catch the group and that I would be okay. That was a really neat experience and perhaps a sign of respect to have one of these guys come back because they typically don't do this.I'd say it was definitely respect. When a newbie stays on front for a long time, I always check on him when he pulls off to make sure he gets hooked on after his pull. If he's struggling, I usually drop back and help him get tucked in. If the pace is ferocious, I'll even ask one or two buddies to drop back with me to bring him back. In fact, I'll often pick the most likely guy to press the pace and have him drop back with me. Kills two birds with one stone.:D