It's killing me but..........

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It hasn't killed me yet. Will be back fairly soon responding to the recent posts - if I can catch up.:D

It hasn't killed me yet. Now that we are about to hit 100 pages and 1 year. I think "It hasn't killed me yet" would be an excellent name for the sequel to this thread.

We could use it to document this next year of progress.

(But has to be started by Tyson and people would have to stop posting here or things would get really crazy)

Not until it breaks the 77,000 views mark to set a new record.:)

Just did the test on page 50 of Andy's book and got 236 watts on the KK for the 20 minute time trial. That's 224 watts FTP an increase of 13 watts since 10/14/06. This is the result of 3x20s at 91% FTP 3 days per week.:cool:
Thanks for the good cycling council I have found here.

Wiredued wrote:

Just did the test on page 50 of Andy's book and got 236 watts on the KK for the 20 minute time trial. That's 224 watts FTP an increase of 13 watts since 10/14/06. This is the result of 3x20s at 91% FTP 3 days per week.:cool:
Thanks for the good cycling council I have found here. Good work! It is so satisfying to see those 3X20's pay off in a such a clear, measurable way. Have you or your riding buddies noticed this increase in your power on group rides? When you are doing intense 3X20's three times a week during a time of the year when many riders are detaining, those longer more vigorous pulls at the front that you feel like taking are going to be noticed!!

Just did the test on page 50 of Andy's book and got 236 watts on the KK for the 20 minute time trial. That's 224 watts FTP an increase of 13 watts since 10/14/06. This is the result of 3x20s at 91% FTP 3 days per week.:cool:
Thanks for the good cycling council I have found here.Cool.:cool: That may appear to be a 6% increase, but it's actually a 27% increase. And in 1 month! Awesome! Glad to see your 3x20s are paying off. It's amazing how FTP goes up even though you never ride at or above FTP, isn't it?;)

Darn it! I didn't intend to start page 100 -- I felt that honor should go to Tyson.

I haven't been on a group ride yet Curlew I think I need about 300 watts to do that because I am over 6' 1" 196lbs and it is hilly around here. There is one hill in my town that is 540ft of elevation over 1.5 miles no stops. Club riding is a goal for next year and I think I'm on the right track now this one month increase is higher than the six month increase I saw last spring. I was investing a lot more time in high L2/low L3 that year and only got 10 watts back what a waste that was.

Your training methods are on target thanks RD. I do like the 91% target it is just fast enough to raise FTP and just slow enough to take a swig from my water bottle.:) I was thinking of sneaking in a 4x20 instead of a 3x20 on Wednesdays since I take Thursday and Friday off is that a good idea? I think Frenchyge's TSS calculator will say OK but just thought it is a conflict with the hour power target it would become more like the hour twenty minute power.

Cool.:cool: That may appear to be a 6% increase, but it's actually a 27% increase. And in 1 month! Awesome! Glad to see your 3x20s are paying off. It's amazing how FTP goes up even though you never ride at or above FTP, isn't it?;)

Darn it! I didn't intend to start page 100 -- I felt that honor should go to Tyson.

....... I think I'm on the right track now this one month increase is higher than the six month increase I saw last spring. I was investing a lot more time in high L2/low L3 that year and only got 10 watts back what a waste that was.Wow, that really crystallizes the difference those L4 3X20's can make. And in just a month!

I didn't get on the productive track you are on now until I stumbled across Tyson's and RD's thread much, much later in the winter. Even starting those 3X20's as late in the winter as February made a HUGE difference in the way I was riding by the time good weather arrived in April.

Wiredued wrote:

Club riding is a goal for next year and I think I'm on the right track now....
Ok, I see. Don't show them a little more power every month but blast them with a huge increase in the spring. By April, you are going to have to spend some time explaining to those who know you where all of this new power came from!!:D

I was thinking of sneaking in a 4x20 instead of a 3x20 on Wednesdays since I take Thursday and Friday off is that a good idea? I think Frenchyge's TSS calculator will say OK but just thought it is a conflict with the hour power target it would become more like the hour twenty minute power.If you've been doing 3x20s @ 91%FTP (~90 TSS points), it shouldn't be too much to do 4x20 @ 91%FTP on one day (~120 TSS points), especially since you will have two recovery days. I think multiple 20s @ 91%FTP make for a great workout during the winter.

Wiredued wrote:

Good work! It is so satisfying to see those 3X20's pay off in a such a clear, measurable way. Have you or your riding buddies noticed this increase in your power on group rides? When you are doing intense 3X20's three times a week during a time of the year when many riders are detaining, those longer more vigorous pulls at the front that you feel like taking are going to be noticed!!
I posted my improvements earlier this week from the 3x20's. I was a little underwhelmed by my improvements on the trainer until this weekend. I went out for my first group ride(really my first ride on my road bike in a couple months) and several of my riding buddies comented on my improvement. More imporantly, I felt better too! That was all the motivation I needed to get me through the L4's for the rest of the winter.

tdl123321 says:

I went out for my first group ride(really my first ride on my road bike in a couple months) and several of my riding buddies comented on my improvement. More imporantly, I felt better too! For those of us who live in parts of the country that have REAL winter, learning how to focus/structure trainer time over the winter is, in my mind, like a continental divide. If you can cross that divide then it is still a lot of work to get faster, but in many respects getting faster is "downhill" once you learn how to love and use your trainer. You've done it! With Tyson and RD as guides, you've crossed the divide!

tdl123321 says:

I posted my improvements earlier this week from the 3x20's. I was a little underwhelmed by my improvements on the trainer until this weekend.....several of my riding buddies comented on my improvement. That was all the motivation I needed to get me through the L4's for the rest of the winter. This is great. A beautiful thing happened for you and at just the right time. As RD pointed out, there was evidence of good progress in your recent trainer session. Still, it happens. You are on your trainer down in the basement, or out in the garage and an hour later you've got a bunch of sweaty clothes and some numbers that haven't increased as much as you hoped to see. It's enough to make anybody doubtful. But it is group rides like you experienced this weekend that remind us that those interval watt averages that often seem to creep up unevenly or "oh so slowly", those numbers and acronyms point to and take on their meaning from a larger world of hard riding, real riding that is so much "bigger" and more radiant than the world of a trainer, sweaty clothes and a log book of acronyms and numbers. So it is so cool that you learned that all of that time on trainer WAS doing some good. Those trainer intervals enabled you too, to shine, didn't they?


Like you, Tyson and others that follow this thread, I want to be as fully as I can be in that world of colors, sounds and speed! So, back to the basement! It's time to accumulate more numbers! More acronyms! More TSS! More CTL! Hey, having crossed the trainer divide, knowing what we know now and having all winter to apply it, it will be an amazing spring, won't it??

Will hopefully be back by the weekend. http://forums.imesh.com/forums/images/smiles/006.gif Tyson

I haven't posted for some time as I've had a lot of work to do and my son and his girlfriend are visiting from England. Needless to say my fitness level has gone to pot.
However, this break has given me time to reflect on my training and which way I want to go. I have said on more than one occasion that I am more than grateful, nay - eternally indebted to RapDaddyo for the effort he has put into helping me raise my FTP and overall fitness level.
At the same time many others, Curlew et al. have benefited from the superb advice vis-a-vis structured training as laid out by RD.

However, having said this, I have decided against taking the next step i.e. training "acronymically". I am more than happy with FTP, VO2Max and AWC.
If by rejecting TTS etc., I underachieve, then so be it - I shall never know.
There are plenty of threads that delve deeper into training methods, both in this forum and the power forum.

If acronyms are your bag you can find them in abundance, for example in the "Apologists" thread etc. This doesn't mean I shall stop posting, but shall be posting a lot less often. I still believe I can improve employing just the 3 aforementioned acronyms without taking TTS into consideration, at least not mathematically but by feel.:D

And RD, I am still planning on tackling Mt. Charleston next year, so don't think you have escaped the challenge.;)

After doing a 4x20 at 91% my shirt smelled like amonia then I went to the bathroom later and my urine smelled like amonia (Is that TMI?). I'm reading that this is from protein combustion due to a lack of glycogen sounds bad. So is that muscle I'm burning and should I really load up on the raw honey in my water bottle next time?

After doing a 4x20 at 91% my shirt smelled like amonia then I went to the bathroom later and my urine smelled like amonia (Is that TMI?). I'm reading that this is from protein combustion due to a lack of glycogen sounds bad. So is that muscle I'm burning and should I really load up on the raw honey in my water bottle next time?It's not all that unusual and many theories about why it happens. Here's a runners link that discusses the topic: http://www.ultrunr.com/ammonia.html

If you'd said you had a fruity smell or more specifically an acetone smell I'd suspect ketoacidosis which in nondiabetics basically means you're out of glycogen and burning proteins. Basically why cyclists should avoid low carb diets...

As Winter starts to strengthen its grip, so the temptation to stay in the warm looms large. However, after nearly 3 weeks of doing almost nothing, this week I'm back into training and raring to go with my sights fixed firmly on next year's events.


It was difficult getting back into the swing of things, but on Wednesday and Friday (today) I began to prepare the groundwork for some really hard work in the new year.

Couldn't face any FTP intervals so after a 5 minute warmup, did 5 minutes @ 170W and increased this by 10watts up to 220W, then repeated the same up to 200W,which I feel kept me in Level 3. I intend to do this until the end of the year to build up my lost fitness base. After attempting a long ride this coming Sunday in the mountains, I intend to include one level 4 workout next week and every week up to xmas, but shall keep it at 240Watts (roughly 85% FTP) and go for 2/3x20.

To accelerate the process, I confess to doing 1x2min @ 300W and 2x1min (plus) @ 350Watts to finish off today's workout.
I know June is a long way off, but I am set on increasing my FTP to such a point where I shall be able to stay with the first 1 or 2 goups home of the 300 riders in the Fukui mountainous 100Miler which I did last Summer.

Hopefuly shall get in 2 or 3 races before then. TYSON

Hi Tyson, I recently read this entire thread. Very impressive and inspiring. I just tested at 233W CP and am going to be working my way up the power curve also. I too am shooting for 300W this next year. I found that my really long rides and other longer events tends to interfer with my progress improving my power.

Hi Tyson, I recently read this entire thread. Very impressive and inspiring. I just tested at 233W CP and am going to be working my way up the power curve also. I too am shooting for 300W this next year. I found that my really long rides and other longer events tends to interfer with my progress improving my power.Well done W4S! Unfortunately you have posted at the demise of this thread. For those wishing to delve deeper into scientifically based training i.e. power training, as Frenchy said, there are many other superior threads dealing with said training. This thread is perhaps too simplistic for those who wish to take their approach one step further. Having said that, RD posted a wealth of training advice in this thread, (far from simple), however, as the original poster decided against becoming too scientific in his approach to training, RD has perhaps decided his time could be better spent giving his advice to more worthy riders, and rightly so.

This thread I think has set many on a different road vis-a-vis their training, and if so, then the thread has achieved its purpose.

I hope you reach your goal of 300Watts FTP W4S, I know I shall, or die in the attempt. It's killing me but.................:D

Unfortunately you have posted at the demise of this thread.It was definitely a good run. Too bad it couldn't live to see 1500 posts. ;)

Maybe the spring thaw will bring new life. :)