It's killing me but..........

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RD, you seem to have some kind of fixation regarding the tool box. Did your Daddy not let you play with his wrenches etc. when you were a child, or are you just a toolboxaphile? :DI just conjured this hilarious image of a newbie going on a long ride thinking he had to bring every tool he owned, in the event he had some sort of mechanical problem. So, I visualized this complete dope trying to figure out how to strap a large toolbox to his back, the toolbox filled with open-end wrenches, allen wrenches, pedal wrenches, torque wrenches, chain whips, extra chains, tires, tubes and everything else one would need to maintain a bike for its lifetime.;)

I just conjured this hilarious image of a newbie going on a long ride thinking he had to bring every tool he owned, in the event he had some sort of mechanical problem. So, I visualized this complete dope trying to figure out how to strap a large toolbox to his back, the toolbox filled with open-end wrenches, allen wrenches, pedal wrenches, torque wrenches, chain whips, extra chains, tires, tubes and everything else one would need to maintain a bike for its lifetime.;)
RD, are you now telling me after all this time I don't need to take all those things with me on a ride. Why didn't you tell me before?:mad:

RD, are you now telling me after all this time I don't need to take all those things with me on a ride. Why didn't you tell me before?:mad:There's your extra couple of kilos, Ibex...

Now you can have a donut with you gross coffee... :D

Jim

Hey all.

Longtime lurker. Despite being a voracious reader, have only managed to plow through about 65 pages of this badboy thread. Enjoyed all.... well, maybe 58 pages of it. :) The teacher (RD)/pupil (SOT) aspect, together with the running storyline, is engaging, and I'm learning alot. Sorry about your outing the other day, SOT.

Like SOT, I'm a former runner, and did some club cycling in college. After a long layoff, I've been getting back into cycling for the past 4 months. Although I'm not planning on racing, the roads and trails in So Cal can get pretty competitive, and being a guy, I'm interested in just getting better and maybe picking off more of the team jersey types.

I have a few questions that I didn't recall seeing addressed in the first 65 pages, and was wondering if I could butt in and get them answered.

1. In performing your FT ride, I assume that most are gearing it up, and basically mashing at relatively low cadence, similar to TT technique, rather than spinning. Is this correct?

2. In observing some of the guys that periodically blast by me on the roads, and most pros that I see on the internet, I assume that there is a correlation between quad/thigh cross-sectional area (i.e., size of legs) and wattage, at least on a flat course (I'm sure there is an interesting inflection point, where, at some point, leg size begins handicapping climbing performance, but let's leave this off for now.) And, as I've heard RD mention on more than one post, if one cycles at less than FT, say 80%, then the duration over which one can maintain that pace increases correspondingly. That said, is it a sound conclusion that larger legs will result in higher wattages, and hence a higher FT? And will those larger howitzers (if biceps are guns, I suppose quads coud be howitzers?) allow one to cycle at higher speeds at higher wattages over longer distances? I realize that there are probably a slew of other variables to consider, such as adaptions that increase vascularity, mitochondrial growth, etc., but can RD and others comment on this?

3. If leg size does result in higher FTs, is there a specific regimen you can suggest to increase size? High gearing/low cadence? Hills? Clearly, weight training at high weight/low reps may not lead to good results, as I imagine that the muscle growth may be dominated by low endurance fast-twitch muscle fibers.

Thanks to any insight you can lend.

Increased leg size categorically does NOT result in higher endurance wattage, especially if FTP is measured in watts/kg. Professional cyclists tend to have well-defined legs due to low body fat, but their legs are far from huge.

--Steve

1. In performing your FT ride, I assume that most are gearing it up, and basically mashing at relatively low cadence, similar to TT technique, rather than spinning. Is this correct?No. Ride at a cadence that feels good for you and at which you'll be doing most of your riding. What matters is your power output, not cadence. Some ride at 80rpm, others at 110 rpm in TTs. Ride what feels good for you.

2. In observing some of the guys that periodically blast by me on the roads, and most pros that I see on the internet, I assume that there is a correlation between quad/thigh cross-sectional area (i.e., size of legs) No. I don't see many match track sprinters doing long rides.

3. If leg size does result in higher FTs, is there a specific regimen you can suggest to increase size? High gearing/low cadence? Hills? Clearly, weight training at high weight/low reps may not lead to good results, as I imagine that the muscle growth may be dominated by low endurance fast-twitch muscle fibers.Best training for going faster on a bike, bar none, is to ride your bike. Specificity rules.

Of course doing so in a thoughtful and structured manner which considers the duration and intensity of your rides is what will help hasten the process of getting faster on a bike.

Hey all.

Longtime lurker. Despite being a voracious reader, have only managed to plow through about 65 pages of this badboy thread. Enjoyed all.... well, maybe 58 pages of it. :) The teacher (RD)/pupil (SOT) aspect, together with the running storyline, is engaging, and I'm learning alot. Sorry about your outing the other day, SOT.

Badboy thread.:confused: Anyway, hi AK! Nice to hear from another lurker. I think your questions have been answered. If you continue reading from page 66, first of all you're a hero, and second you will see just recently I blew away a guy with muscular calves as big as my waist.;)

RD, should AK manage to read the entire thread, I think something more than a medal is called for, don't you. Maybe a trip to the house with the vestal virgin clad in only a toga draped over her left shoulder.
Or perhaps a day out at a toolbox factory.:D

Which reminds me RD; didn't you mention this guy a few posts back?

http://homepage1.nifty.com/117/mala-shadow.jpg

Dang Tyson! Why didn't you tell us you were so good looking? :confused:

Oh, wait.:rolleyes: I can hear the joke coming now...... I feel silly for even biting on the setup..... go ahead Tyson, you got me.......

Dang Tyson! Why didn't you tell us you were so good looking? :confused:

Oh, wait.:rolleyes: I can hear the joke coming now...... I feel silly for even biting on the setup..... go ahead Tyson, you got me.......
No Frenchy that's not me, Im the one on the red bike in the signature closely followed by RD on the blue bike.:D

No Frenchy that's not me, Im the one on the red bike in the signature closely followed by RD on the blue bike.:DNah, I'd be the one on the bright yellow bike, close enough to keep an eye on things but letting you and a few others give me a 40% drafting advantage on this flat section of the course. I'm just biding my time waiting for a long climb to force the pace.:D

Im the one on the red bike in the signature closely followed by RD on the blue bike.:D
Ok. Well, I'm afraid to ask just what those things are (let alone their big droopy friend at the back), but as long as they're having fun on their bikes..... :cool:

Ok. Well, I'm afraid to ask just what those things are (let alone their big droopy friend at the back), but as long as they're having fun on their bikes..... :cool:Not to mention that I don't think those bikes are UCI legal, but who's going to let a small thing like that get in the way.:D

Not to mention that I don't think those bikes are UCI legal, but who's going to let a small thing like that get in the way.:DThe riders look like they've all had too much testosterone...

Still having a break from cycling, and from now on shall only post PBs - assuming of course they come along. TYSON ;)

Still having a break from cycling, and from now on shall only post PBs - assuming of course they come along. TYSON ;)
Talking to myself here but.... I've now had 5 days off and plan to return next Tuesday (8 days off). Reading through other threads, just what to do through the winter in preparation for next Spring, when I hope to do some racing, I've no clear idea what sort of workouts will prove to be the most beneficial. By the end of January which is when this thread began this year, I would like to be ahead of the position I find myself in now; FTP-wise that is.

For some reason or other, some riders prefer not to do VO2Max sessions in the winter. Others advocate doing a lot of L3 work etc. etc. My question I suppose is, if I have made the progress I have through combining L4, L5, L6 (and some L2&3 on the weekend rides), what's the problem with continuing with more of the same?
Or am I at a stage now, where a change (albeit a slight change perhaps) in strategy would reap greater benefits?

I look forward to hearing from the gurus.;) TYSON

No guru here Tyson but I have noticed the pattern in my group rides and races this past year that you experienced last weekend. There is a surge in the race, often associated with a hill, and out of this surge a group of 6-8 riders breaks away and they end up finishing the race together ahead of everyone else who didn't make this selection. Being a biologist I always feel a great connection to all of the maladapted organisms throughout history at this point. :D

Anyway, after my heart rate returns from the stratosphere I find myself one of the stronger "left behind" riders chasing this lead group. We overtake some of the riders that also get dropped from the lead group, our chase group gets larger and by the last third of the race we are clearly gaining on the group that dropped all of us earlier.

How do we develop the capacity to handle these surges and make these key selections?

Reading through the threads, I think we need to develop our "AWC" anaerobic work capacity. RD has made several suggestion on how to go about this. At one point RD said:

Ok, so you warm up, then ride at 120% of FT for as long as you can until you see a 2% power drop. Then you rest 5 minutes then go out again at 120% of FT. Then a 3rd and 4th iteration. Your initial durations at 120% FT are 5 min, 4 min, 3 min, and 2 min. A month later your durations might be 6 min, 5 min, 4 min and 3 min.
What I think both of us are wondering, is, since you can train up AWC relatively quickly compare to FT, most people work on raising their AWC just prior to the start of racing because AWC detrains quickly. For those of us who are older, and/or untrained in the area of AWC, is there any advantage to working on AWC all winter long. In other words, could I raise my AWC by some amount, say 5% in November, 5% in December and another 5% in January and February and arrive at racing season with a greater increase in AWC than I would get by trying to improve AWC by focusing on AWC improvement but for a shorter time period next spring?

I think we have learned a lot from Tyson's thread about how to improve and maintain FT power over a 12 month period and Tyson has employed a mix of L4, L5 and L6 intervals hoping to raise FT with impressive results. Now he is talking about racing next spring. Cool! But how do you configure the mix of L4, L5 and L6 time in November, December, January, February and March so your AWC is as high as it can be along with FT for the April races? Should Tyson's strategy (and mine) for raising AWC in the "off season" be different from riders who had a great AWC last season and they just need to get back the AWC they had last year and improve it slightly? Or, should we approach improving AWC like most riders and concentrate on improving FT in November and December and save the high intensity efforts to improve AWC substantially for later?

Curlew, I believe what you quoted was a VO2max workout, but I don't remember the context of that post so I can't be sure what he was describing. You might go back to take a look. :)

Edit: Eh, I could be wrong. I just remembered that he prefers to do his workouts at the bottom of each zone.

I look forward to hearing from the gurus.;) TYSONTyson, I will weigh in on your question (and, hopefully, others will as well). But, I wanted to give you advance notice that I will be using WKO+ and Performance Manager terminology. You might want to get up to speed with the terminology by reading this http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/performancemanager.asp. I also intend to discuss training stress in terms of TSS by training level.

So, why do I want to speak in these terms? Because they allow me to be precise and specific. Otherwise, the discussion becomes nothing more than a bunch of ambiguous cycling buzz words (base, tempo, etc.). There is nothing ambiguous about CTL, ATL, TSS and a breakdown of a ride or a week or a month by TSS by training level.

Tyson, I will weigh in on your question (and, hopefully, others will as well). But, I wanted to give you advance notice that I will be using WKO+ and Performance Manager terminology. You might want to get up to speed with the terminology by reading this http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/performancemanager.asp. I also intend to discuss training stress in terms of TSS by training level.

So, why do I want to speak in these terms? Because they allow me to be precise and specific. Otherwise, the discussion becomes nothing more than a bunch of ambiguous cycling buzz words (base, tempo, etc.). There is nothing ambiguous about CTL, ATL, TSS and a breakdown of a ride or a week or a month by TSS by training level.
Oh the pressure, the pressure; I need a pint of guiness. Cheers! http://www.larashome.com/forums/html//emoticons/beer.gif

Oh the pressure, the pressure; I need a pint of guiness. Cheers! http://www.larashome.com/forums/html//emoticons/beer.gifThis thread illustrates what I'm talking about http://www.cyclingforums.com/t372654.html. Now, what's going on? Are people trying to impress each other with their acronym vocabulary? Not at all. What's going on is that new measures are now available thanks to TrainingPeaks WKO+ and Performance Manager (PM). These measures enable us to be precise and specific when talking about training stress and adaptations from either the bird's eye view (aggregate) or the worm's eye view (detail). They allow us to get out of the mushy, inexact world of anecdotes ("I did a hard, 2-hr ride on Monday and another hard 3-hour ride on Tuesday. Should I take a day off?") and elevate the discussion to one of much more specificity. Everybody who uses WKO+ and PM can relate immediately to a ride with TSS of 75 (not much more than a warmup) versus 300 (whew!) or a CTL of 50 (ho-hum) versus 150 (Superman). If you can tune in to the vocabulary, you will be able to tap some of the best resources on this forum because many of them use WKO+ and PM.:D