It's killing me but..........

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39x15? :eek: According to the KK chart (http://kurtkinetic.com/pdfs/Power_Curves419.pdf), 1400w is about 40mph on the Road Machine. In a 39x15 that puts you at a cadence of 188. Sound about right?I think she said she did a few sprints on her road ride. Probably standing starts or jumps from a slow speed on a slight upgrade. I'd like to see the torque numbers.

I'm thinking that regular L7 work would benefit me, and it wouldn't interfere with my L4 program.Correct. Some regular L7 work will benefit your NM power and will not interfere with your L4/L5 (FTP) program. But, NM power detrains quickly so I don't know that I would spend all that much time on L7s this far in advance of entering RRs next spring.

I came up with this, which shows yet again, that untrained folks (that would be me) can generate plenty of power. Too bad it is only for a second or two....:

http://i9.tinypic.com/2gt1dgp.jpg (http://i9.tinypic.com/440o5ki.jpg)

My power profile looks like the slope of say, K2 or mount everest, going down that is!


:eek: Lucy, that's awesome! What did it translate to as a 5 sec and 10sec mean maximal power? Here the talent spot pool would be very interested in those numbers... Good news for you is that FTP is highly trainable (within our genetic limitations).

Power profile will take a while to sort out - until you get good (honest - i.e. maximal effort) data at the durations listed, don't place too much stock in it - but that will come. But not sure I'd be hanging around the slowtwitch forum with numbers like that.;)

Now I am a trackie - but track endurance is my game, not match sprinting or track TTs.

I came up with this, which shows yet again, that untrained folks (that would be me) can generate plenty of power. Too bad it is only for a second or two....:

http://i9.tinypic.com/2gt1dgp.jpg (http://i9.tinypic.com/440o5ki.jpg)

My power profile looks like the slope of say, K2 or mount everest, going down that is!


Awesome :cool:

Awesome :cool: Thank you :)


:eek: Lucy, that's awesome! What did it translate to as a 5 sec and 10sec mean maximal power? Here the talent spot pool would be very interested in those numbers... Good news for you is that FTP is highly trainable (within our genetic limitations).

Power profile will take a while to sort out - until you get good (honest - i.e. maximal effort) data at the durations listed, don't place too much stock in it - but that will come. But not sure I'd be hanging around the slowtwitch forum with numbers like that.;)

Now I am a trackie - but track endurance is my game, not match sprinting or track TTs.Alex, 5s MMP was 1331. So i've heard, as you said, about FTP being very responsive to training - after all, this is the 'its killing me but' thread and our hero Tyson (who should be telling us about his next workout soon)....has more than doubled his FTP in < 1 year!

LOL @ slowtitch forum - still, I'd trade any 5s power number for a FTP that would not cause mass laughter! Otherwise, I don't put a lot of stock into it. For instance, I showed a friend the number on the PT and he had no idea what to make of it - "so?" was his exact quote... conversely if I tell him I can ride to the top of the mountain ( 21.5 km @5.2%) in an hour which I probably n ever will then he'd be very impressed.

Yeap, I'll just pedal, that I can do.

Question: I know that working at lower zones L1-L6, involves varying amounts of converting typeIIb to typeIIa fibers - will this negatively affect my ability to sprint? I'm thinking that regular L7 work would benefit me, and it wouldn't interfere with my L4 program. Some experts believe that the proportion of FTa and FTb muscle fibers do change. Endurance training would reduce the number of FTb fibers and increase the number of FTa. The feeling is that training increases the amount of myoglobin, the number of mitochondria, and the concentration of aerobic enzymes in FTb fibers so they become FTa, or at least function like them (Saltin et al. 1977)

Another side to this story is that training that increases the endurance of fast-twitch fibers, particularly the FTb fibers may also reduce their contraction speed and force (Fitts, Costill and Gardetto, 1989).

Fortunately Lucy, you seem to have received your fair share of FT fibers. So I wouldn't worry too much about seeing few FTb getting converted into FTa, especially since you seem to be involved into road racing. The sprints occuring during (and at the end of) those races aren't *pure* anaerobic sprints per se. I'd be curious to see the contribution of FTb during those sprints.

Some experts believe that the proportion of FTa and FTb muscle fibers do change. Endurance training would reduce the number of FTb fibers and increase the number of FTa. The feeling is that training increases the amount of myoglobin, the number of mitochondria, and the concentration of aerobic enzymes in FTb fibers so they become FTa, or at least function like them (Saltin et al. 1977)

Another side to this story is that training that increases the endurance of fast-twitch fibers, particularly the FTb fibers may also reduce their contraction speed and force (Fitts, Costill and Gardetto, 1989).

Fortunately Lucy, you seem to have received your fair share of FT fibers. So I wouldn't worry too much about seeing few FTb getting converted into FTa, especially since you seem to be involved into road racing. The sprints occuring during (and at the end of) those races aren't *pure* anaerobic sprints per se. I'd be curious to see the contribution of FTb during those sprints.Hi - maybe I ought to be a little worried since this whole sprinting business is the one thing I have the potential to be respectable in! http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

How would you know what proportion of muscle fibers involved in a RR or crit finish? Would it be tied to the wattage produced in the finale?

Hi - maybe I ought to be a little worried since this whole sprinting business is the one thing I have the potential to be respectable in! http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

How would you know what proportion of muscle fibers involved in a RR or crit finish? Would it be tied to the wattage produced in the finale?There are probably enough things to worry about in life without adding conversion of FTb to FTa fibres to the list.:rolleyes: Unless, perhaps, you want to be a track sprinter, which I think you said you don't.

IN a RR or Crit, there's no point having the best sprint in the world unless you can stay with the bunch 'til the end.

Think of the likes of Robbie McEwan. He employs the 'hide in the bunch then unleash the fearsome sprint' tactic, that you'll be able to do as you get fitter.;)

Keep pedalling :)

There are probably enough things to worry about in life without adding conversion of FTb to FTa fibres to the list.:rolleyes: Unless, perhaps, you want to be a track sprinter, which I think you said you don't.

IN a RR or Crit, there's no point having the best sprint in the world unless you can stay with the bunch 'til the end.

Think of the likes of Robbie McEwan. He employs the 'hide in the bunch then unleash the fearsome sprint' tactic, that you'll be able to do as you get fitter.;)

Keep pedalling :)
Oh come on, I mean what else would keep someone up at night than worrying about Fibres and furthermore, the possibility of inter-conversion.... :D

Yeah, McEwan is the pocket rocket alright~

this whole sprinting business is the one thing I have the potential to be respectable in! http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gifYou don't know this yet. All you know now is that your untrained sprint power is well above normal. When you think about it, short duration power is about the only thing that would be above normal for the relatively untrained cyclist. After 3 months of focused L4 and L5 efforts and some consistent, rigorous testing of FTP and VO2MAX, you can assess the trainability of the right side of your power profile. Until then, think of it as a neglected garden. Who knows what you can grow if you work the garden? Maybe giant beanstalks!:D

Oh come on, I mean what else would keep someone up at night than worrying about Fibres and furthermore, the possibility of inter-conversion.... :D Well, the possibility of inter-conversion might indeed keep me up at night ;), but more often these days it's my two small children ....:(

You don't know this yet. All you know now is that your untrained sprint power is well above normal. When you think about it, short duration power is about the only thing that would be above normal for the relatively untrained cyclist. After 3 months of focused L4 and L5 efforts and some consistent, rigorous testing of FTP and VO2MAX, you can assess the trainability of the right side of your power profile. Until then, think of it as a neglected garden. Who knows what you can grow if you work the garden? Maybe giant beanstalks!:D
Well true, I do not know what my power profile will look like after, say, a year of training and what not - or even a few months from now.

A neglected garden with potential beanstalks? Heh....we'll see, but even little brussel sprouts would be nice now ;)

Where is our protagonist these days?

Well, Tyson, you'll be pleased to know that the software project that has had me by the throat for the past few weeks is finished. I'm writing it up tonight and if I don't fall asleep at the keyboard it'll be done tomorrow. After I get some sleep, I'll be able to work on my promised deliverables to this thread.

This project was a bitch. It took me an entire week to solve one problem that resulted in a total of ~20 lines of code.:( But, that's all history now and the little sucker runs like a P-51 Rolls Royce Merlin.

I'll also have more time now to bug you about your progress as you mount your assault on 20mins @ 300W (that's your goal, right?).:D

Will reply later RD.　I'm in the middle of a rush job. Cheers! TysonWell, Tyson, you'll be pleased to know that the software project that has had me by the throat for the past few weeks is finished. I'm writing it up tonight and if I don't fall asleep at the keyboard it'll be done tomorrow. After I get some sleep, I'll be able to work on my promised deliverables to this thread.

This project was a bitch. It took me an entire week to solve one problem that resulted in a total of ~20 lines of code.:( But, that's all history now and the little sucker runs like a P-51 Rolls Royce Merlin.

I'll also have more time now to bug you about your progress as you mount your assault on 20mins @ 300W (that's your goal, right?).:D

Since L.Biwa I have lacked motivation. However, paradoxically I'm motivated to do better next year at Biwa and earlier in the mountainous century I did last June. Also hope to do some racing before either of those events.

After a mediocre week last week, I started off yesterday with

4x3 @ 290W (since found out anything under 3.5 cannot be considered a VO2 Max interval)
Then did 5x1minute @ 350W finishing off with a 1x20 @ 220W . Abysmal!:(

My immediate aim is 1x20 @ 300W but want to achieve an FTP of 300W!;)

Since L.Biwa I have lacked motivation. However, paradoxically I'm motivated to do better next year at Biwa and earlier in the mountainous century I did last June. Also hope to do some racing before either of those events.This is common and you are entering a very important phase of training. For the first time since January, you have no specific upcoming goal with a finite date. Your initial goal was to beat your young friend on a long climb. This got transformed to a goal of 200W by mid-May. Then you had your target ride in the summer. Then you had your Lake Biwa ride. A problem now is that you have a generic goal (FTP=300W) but no specific goal date or ride. I think it is tough to train against a generic goal with no date. My suggestion is to look ahead a few months and choose a target ride or race. Then, work back from that date to develop a training plan to get you to a peak performance for that event. Note that I haven't even mentioned a specific FTP goal. Rather, I used the term "peak performance." Maybe you want to set out a specific FTP goal, but I continue to advise against it. For example, let's say that you increase your FTP to 275W between now and next spring. You may not realize it, but this would be a huge achievement. Physiologically, it's way more than a 10% increase from 250W. I don't even think I'll tell you the true number so as to not deter you. You're probably better off viewing it as a 10% increase.:D

Since L.Biwa I have lacked motivation. However, paradoxically I'm motivated to do better next year at Biwa and earlier in the mountainous century I did last June.Normally I am on hypermode for training progressively, but in this instance I believe you are following a natural and healthy course after peaking for your last big event of the season. That is to relax a little at this moment, but that is strictly my opinion.

You have weeks to ramp up to peak condition again, but if you jump in too early too hard you may mentally burn out by the time you get to the end of season the next year.

Each of us is different, but when peaking for the last event of the season I found it best for me to schedule a week off from training immediately following the last event, which would usually drive me nuts because I live to train and I love training all year round. The first week back I start to lay out the plan for the next year. I look at my training log and see where I made mistakes and make adjustments. Then I begin to train light the first week back and increase intensity from that point forward based on the goal.

Sports psychology is probably subjective or philosophical to some degree so I just state my opinion that your current lack of motivation may not be too bad as long as you don't fight it and take a short break.

Link (http://www.psywww.com/mtsite/page11.html)

This is common and you are entering a very important phase of training. For the first time since January, you have no specific upcoming goal with a finite date. Your initial goal was to beat your young friend on a long climb. This got transformed to a goal of 200W by mid-May. Then you had your target ride in the summer. Then you had your Lake Biwa ride. A problem now is that you have a generic goal (FTP=300W) but no specific goal date or ride. I think it is tough to train against a generic goal with no date. My suggestion is to look ahead a few months and choose a target ride or race. Then, work back from that date to develop a training plan to get you to a peak performance for that event. Note that I haven't even mentioned a specific FTP goal. Rather, I used the term "peak performance." Maybe you want to set out a specific FTP goal, but I continue to advise against it. For example, let's say that you increase your FTP to 275W between now and next spring. You may not realize it, but this would be a huge achievement. Physiologically, it's way more than a 10% increase from 250W. I don't even think I'll tell you the true number so as to not deter you. You're probably better off viewing it as a 10% increase.:D
LOL RD, you're doing it again! let's say that you increase your FTP to 275W between now and next spring. You know I always take the bait and think I'll show him he has underestimated my capabilities. You are unwittingly or perhaps intentionally setting me a goal for next Spring.:D

Now the good news. I found out yesterday there is a 100 mile mountain ride next month. Apparently as tough if not tougher than last June's. Again, it is not a race per se, however, unlike Biwa there is no waiting for others to catch up. It is every man for himself at his own pace. Read, race your guts out!;)
So starting Sunday I shall be ramping up the mileage. TYSON

Normally I am on hypermode for training progressively, but in this instance I believe you are following a natural and healthy course after peaking for your last big event of the season. That is to relax a little at this moment, but that is strictly my opinion.

You have weeks to ramp up to peak condition again, but if you jump in too early too hard you may mentally burn out by the time you get to the end of season the next year.

Each of us is different, but when peaking for the last event of the season I found it best for me to schedule a week off from training immediately following the last event, which would usually drive me nuts because I live to train and I love training all year round. The first week back I start to lay out the plan for the next year. I look at my training log and see where I made mistakes and make adjustments. Then I begin to train light the first week back and increase intensity from that point forward based on the goal.

Sports psychology is probably subjective or philosophical to some degree so I just state my opinion that your current lack of motivation may not be too bad as long as you don't fight it and take a short break.

Link (http://www.psywww.com/mtsite/page11.html)
Thanks FR, some really sound advice in there. Unfortunately if you read the post before this, I now have another event coming up shortly, so it's noses back to the grindstone. Following that ride, I will probably take your advice and take a whole week off. To hell with the withdrawal symptons - I might even come back fighting fit, who knows.
Thinking about it, I'm now looking forward to training harder than ever for the next few weeks to justify taking a week off, which I'm also thinking about with relish.
Oh, and thanks for the link. It looks interesting and shall take a read later.
Cheers! TYSON ;)

Now the good news. I found out yesterday there is a 100 mile mountain ride next month. Apparently as tough if not tougher than last June's. Again, it is not a race per se, however, unlike Biwa there is no waiting for others to catch up. It is every man for himself at his own pace. Read, race your guts out!;) So starting Sunday I shall be ramping up the mileage. TYSONCool.:cool: There is nothing quite like a target event (race or triathlon or century or whatever) to stoke the fires and provide inspiration. While doing a solo ride at a new PB FTP or other performance goal provides a great feeling of satisfaction, nothing compares with an opportunity to show others what we have in the tank. Then, of course, after one has pointedly displayed one's power in a race or other event, we can't show up at future events weak and wimpy so we have to at least show up next time with equal power.:D