It's killing me but..........

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Oy Lucy, what are you, some king of sadistic voyeur? I take it you want RD to inflict more pain upon me. Heh....sadistic voyeur? Er, you don't really want me to answer that. Anyway!

It is so grand, like a cycling reality show, except unlike the rubbish on tv, I like the characters on this one.....the humble Tyson, the mastermind RD, the chain-smoking fast guy....I mean seriously....

You worry about your own training - OK!:D
Sure, but I'm still waiting for you to show me how to switch the power on. For some reason, my power switch is stuck in the off position....how do you work this thing? is there even an 'on' position for me? Can someone check the breaker..... http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

I'm still waiting for you to show me how to switch the power on. For some reason, my power switch is stuck in the off position....how do you work this thing? is there even an 'on' position for me? Can someone check the breaker..... http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gifThe engine's there. It's just awaiting some fuel. You buy the fuel with L4s, at the rate of ~2 watts per hour for someone who is relatively untrained.

Bizarre, so how come they have such a high life expectancy?:confused:Must be all that raw fish.;)

The engine's there. It's just awaiting some fuel. You buy the fuel with L4s, at the rate of ~2 watts per hour for someone who is relatively untrained.~2 watts/hour for a newbie (aka me)? Oh, come on. Now you are just teasing http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

~2 watts/hour for a newbie (aka me)? Oh, come on. Now you are just teasing http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gifNot really. In the first few weeks, it wouldn't be unusual for you to increase your FTP at the rate of 1-2W/hr of quality L4 time (e.g., 2x20s @ 100%FTP). Let's say you did 2x20s @ 100%FTP 3x/week for a month. That's a total of ~8 hrs per month. I could see an FTP improvement of 8-16W per month. I would expect an increase of FTP at the rate of 1-2W/hour for the first few months. I think Tyson went from 130-200W in <4 months with ~2 hrs of L4 time per week (70W/32hrs = 2.18 W/hr). Q.E.D.:D

Not really. In the first few weeks, it wouldn't be unusual for you to increase your FTP at the rate of 1-2W/hr of quality L4 time (e.g., 2x20s @ 100%FTP). Let's say you did 2x20s @ 100%FTP 3x/week for a month. That's a total of ~8 hrs per month. I could see an FTP improvement of 8-16W per month. I would expect an increase of FTP at the rate of 1-2W/hour for the first few months. I think Tyson went from 130-200W in <4 months with ~2 hrs of L4 time per week (70W/32hrs = 2.18 W/hr). Q.E.D.:DAlright, we'll talk business a little here...

I'm going to get my cassette switched from my old wheel to the new one with the powertap tomorrow ideally - (sorry I don't have a chain whip!).

Provided we have semi-decent weather on wed., I'll do a genuine FTP test....none of this 20 minute stuff. I'd like to get in a good 30 minutes at least, ideally 60. For all of the 'if you are really motivated' notions of FTP, i still think you have to show you can do the 60 minutes.

After that I want to do L4 on every ride - not the whole ride mind you - but I think a good 3-4 hours is realistic per week.

I've decided I want to try the Mount Evans Hill climb next year....I looked at the times for the cat 4 women's groups and have a good idea of what kind of power I'll need to have a decent result.

Provided we have semi-decent weather on wed., I'll do a genuine FTP test....none of this 20 minute stuff. I'd like to get in a good 30 minutes at least, ideally 60. For all of the 'if you are really motivated' notions of FTP, i still think you have to show you can do the 60 minutes.I don't think you need to be obsessed with finding your current FTP right away. It takes a little while to learn to ride at a relatively constant power because power is much more "jumpy" than cadence, speed or HR. All you really need to figure out at this point is at what power to ride L4s. You can start by taking a guess of what your FTP is and then take ~90% of that number and ride a 2x20 set. If your FTP estimate is too high, you will find it difficult to impossible to complete the set. If your FTP estimate is too low, you will find that you can complete the set and even increase power in the last 10 mins. A 2x20 set should be challenging and requires full concentration but you don't fall off your bike at the end. Bottom line: after the workout, you've got 40mins of L4 under your belt and you have a good idea of what power to use for now for L4s.:D

Cool, go for it!:cool: It's there for the taking, but you may need to take a hard look at how many hours/week you can commit to training and you may need to invest in some tools. I'm thinking specifically of CP WKO+, with a semi-manual input of training rides. BTW, do you have Microsoft Access? I built a small app in Access (plus a batch console app) to create CSV WKO+ input files from trainer rides (for those without a PM). This would give you some useful statistics and pretty pictures (charts) to help manage your training. I know you're a self-described feel guy, but if you want to go to the next level you may need to step up to some numbers-based applications. Let me put it this way. You're done with the easy part of increasing FTP (and VO2MAX and AC). From this point upwards, it's harder and you need all the tools you can lay your hands on to target your training and measure your progress.:DWill this work for workouts that are done on a trainer that reads WATTS? If so I would like a copy of this access database. I have been using some Excel sheets to track my TSS on a daily basis and grouping it into 5 day intervals.

I don't think you need to be obsessed with finding your current FTP right away. It takes a little while to learn to ride at a relatively constant power because power is much more "jumpy" than cadence, speed or HR. All you really need to figure out at this point is at what power to ride L4s. You can start by taking a guess of what your FTP is and then take ~90% of that number and ride a 2x20 set. If your FTP estimate is too high, you will find it difficult to impossible to complete the set. If your FTP estimate is too low, you will find that you can complete the set and even increase power in the last 10 mins. A 2x20 set should be challenging and requires full concentration but you don't fall off your bike at the end. Bottom line: after the workout, you've got 40mins of L4 under your belt and you have a good idea of what power to use for now for L4s.:D
LOL This thread has now gone full circle. However, that's a good thing, as people just tuning in do not have to go back to the beginning of the thread - they can start right here.:D

I don't think you need to be obsessed with finding your current FTP right away. It takes a little while to learn to ride at a relatively constant power because power is much more "jumpy" than cadence, speed or HR. All you really need to figure out at this point is at what power to ride L4s. You can start by taking a guess of what your FTP is and then take ~90% of that number and ride a 2x20 set. If your FTP estimate is too high, you will find it difficult to impossible to complete the set. If your FTP estimate is too low, you will find that you can complete the set and even increase power in the last 10 mins. A 2x20 set should be challenging and requires full concentration but you don't fall off your bike at the end. Bottom line: after the workout, you've got 40mins of L4 under your belt and you have a good idea of what power to use for now for L4s.:DHey now, don't even try to distract me, because I darn well know cadence is a red herring. :D

Ahem, sorry, after hearing that said like 732 times in another thread, well I felt compelled to use it....

Anyway. Well what you said, there is that - if you estimate too high then there's no way the 2x20's will be completed. If anything, starting out a few watts low isn't going to hurt, and furthers one's learning of riding with a PM.


As an aside, I wanted to ask you what your feelings are on say, cp120 or cp180 - IOW - 2 to 3 hour rides. We focus a lot here on FTP or 20 minute power, but as I'm thinking of entering long hill climb events next year - TT-style - I'm curious as to the relationship between FTP and say 2 or 3 hours power numbers. What would you say is the relationship for such a multi-hour duration, CP 120 ~ something on the order of maybe 80% of FTP?

Will this work for workouts that are done on a trainer that reads WATTS? If so I would like a copy of this access database. I have been using some Excel sheets to track my TSS on a daily basis and grouping it into 5 day intervals.It is intended to take inputs for resistance, cadence, speed, HR and duration and produce data for a PT CSV workout file (via a batch console app). You can then directly import the CSV files into CP. You create your own table for translating resistance and cadence to watts (so it doesn't have to be linear). I'll clean it up a bit, document it (always the hard part) and post it.

It is intended to take inputs for resistance, cadence, speed, HR and duration and produce data for a PT CSV workout file (via a batch console app). You can then directly import the CSV files into CP. You create your own table for translating resistance and cadence to watts (so it doesn't have to be linear). I'll clean it up a bit, document it (always the hard part) and post it.QA is always telling me to document my code, but I never listen to them. They just try to make me do more work:D

Bizarre, so how come they have such a high life expectancy?:confused:
The people who are living to a ripe old age are of course the people born in the early part of last century. They lived on a very low calorie diet of fish and vegetables. In fact, during the war they existed on even less calories. As a low calorific intake is now thought to prolong one's life, there's your answer.
I can tell you now, that sitting in Mister Donuts watching these fat arses waddle in and chomp on high calorie donuts, that longevity among the Japanese will in 20 years from now be a thing of the past. They are fast catching up with the obesity levels prevalent in the US and Europe.
The only plus I suppose is, there will be a greater number of potential Sumo wrestlers to choose from.:D

If anything, starting out a few watts low isn't going to hurt, and furthers one's learning of riding with a PM.Agree. I think we often try to ride at what we want our power to be, then we get frustrated because it's so hard, we don't complete the set and we go to bed mad. Better to start off a little low, complete the set strongly, really rip the last 5 mins, and strut around thinking, "Yeah, Baby! I knew I had more in the tank than that!":D

As an aside, I wanted to ask you what your feelings are on say, cp120 or cp180 - IOW - 2 to 3 hour rides. We focus a lot here on FTP or 20 minute power, but as I'm thinking of entering long hill climb events next year - TT-style - I'm curious as to the relationship between FTP and say 2 or 3 hours power numbers. What would you say is the relationship for such a multi-hour duration, CP 120 ~ something on the order of maybe 80% of FTP?Everybody's a bit different (throughout the MP/duration curve), but 80% is probably a bit low. It sort of depends on how many hours per week you've been riding. If you've been training only a couple of hours a week, your power is going to drop like a stone after an hour. If you've been training 6+ hours/week, your MP120 is probably going to be 90+% of your 60MP, maybe even 95%.

Agree. I think we often try to ride at what we want our power to be, then we get frustrated because it's so hard, we don't complete the set and we go to bed mad. Better to start off a little low, complete the set strongly, really rip the last 5 mins, and strut around thinking, "Yeah, Baby! I knew I had more in the tank than that!":D Heh...for sure!

Everybody's a bit different (throughout the MP/duration curve), but 80% is probably a bit low. It sort of depends on how many hours per week you've been riding. If you've been training only a couple of hours a week, your power is going to drop like a stone after an hour. If you've been training 6+ hours/week, your MP120 is probably going to be 90+% of your 60MP, maybe even 95%.Very interesting. If I am understanding right then what you are saying is that one's MP120 as a percentage of FTP is going to be influenced significantly by training volume.

QA is always telling me to document my code, but I never listen to them. They just try to make me do more work:DOh, I document (comment) my code. Otherwise, if I return to it after awhile, I'm scratching my head thinking, "What the hell is going on here?" It's documenting it for people other than me to be able to use it that's the hard part. Why can't everybody learn to speak C++? Why do I have to translate to English?

It is so grand, like a cycling reality show, except unlike the rubbish on tv, I like the characters on this one.....the humble Tyson, the mastermind RD, the chain-smoking fast guy....I mean seriously....


http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
One of those characters I don't recognize. The "humble Tyson" :confused: Who the hell is he when he's about?

And what's more, you missed out one of the original characters in this saga.
Perhaps the very reason for the existence of this thread.

Namely the short, light weight, kill-Tyson-on-the hills cycling companion.

Have no fear, he will again grace these forums in the not too distant future.
(When I've lost another couple of kilos that is:D )

Very interesting. If I am understanding right then what you are saying is that one's MP120 as a percentage of FTP is going to be influenced significantly by training volume.Sure, as we become more fit our MP/duration curve tends to flatten. And, training volume is a major part of becoming more fit. I don't mean lots of volume just riding around at L1-L2. I mean serious training volume with lots of L4+ work.

One of those characters I don't recognize. The "humble Tyson" :confused: Who the hell is he when he's about?

And what's more, you missed out one of the original characters in this saga.
Perhaps the very reason for the existence of this thread.

Namely the short, light weight, kill-Tyson-on-the hills cycling companion.

Have no fear, he will again grace these forums in the not too distant future.
(When I've lost another couple of kilos that is:D )You'll let me make amends won't you?

Let's see....

The almost retired, humbled "Sly"....
The flipped, power-hungry, Mister Donuts frequenting - Tyson...
The young, brash friend who would be a foil and served a lesson in climbing by the hard man Tyson himself....
The brilliant, hard-nosed taskmaster - RD...

Sure, as we become more fit our MP/duration curve tends to flatten. And, training volume is a major part of becoming more fit. I don't mean lots of volume just riding around at L1-L2. I mean serious training volume with lots of L4+ work.Ok, that clarifies things - obviously serious training volume is not put-putting in the recovery/endurance zones.

Thank you for answering my unabashedly green questions! :):):)