It's killing me but..........

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Interesting thread guys - lots of good advice, (as I start on my journey of increasing the intensity of my own training) :)

Welcome to club guys! I expect to see some FTP figures soon from you both - as long as they're not higher than mine that is.:D

The training is hell but the rewards make it all worth while. Back in February I could hardly move the crank at 300Watts, today did 3 mins at 300W and just for fun at the end of the training session (when I was already pretty tired) did 1x1minute @ 350Watts. Unimaginable 7 months ago!;)

Enjoy your training! TYSON

Welcome to club guys! I expect to see some FTP figures soon from you both - as long as they're not higher than mine that is.:D

The training is hell but the rewards make it all worth while. Back in February I could hardly move the crank at 300Watts, today did 3 mins at 300W and just for fun at the end of the training session (when I was already pretty tired) did 1x1minute @ 350Watts. Unimaginable 7 months ago!;)

Enjoy your training! TYSONThanks Tyson - your improvement is certainly encouraging for those of us on a similar path!

As for FTP, I'll have to wait until I get to the gym to use one of the exercise bikes (wondering how accurate their power metering is ?) - I don't have a power meter...I'm clearly a luddite :rolleyes:, still using 20th century technology in the form of an HRM, but using the the same zone based approach (per Coggan).

May be a few weeks before I get down there, so will give me time to improve, before I post it ! ;)

Thanks Tyson - your improvement is certainly encouraging for those of us on a similar path!

As for FTP, I'll have to wait until I get to the gym to use one of the exercise bikes (wondering how accurate their power metering is ?) - I don't have a power meter...I'm clearly a luddite :rolleyes:, still using 20th century technology in the form of an HRM, but using the the same zone based approach (per Coggan).

May be a few weeks before I get down there, so will give me time to improve, before I post it ! ;)If you think about it FC, it doesn't really matter how accurate it is as long as it's consistent. After finding out what your FTP is, all your training wattage will follow on from that figure. The real test of what power you're actually achieving will show up out on the road when you pulverize people who used to show you their back wheel.:D

RD I hate to admit it, but you were right as usual when you said:



I don't think you need to drop down below 220W for your extra time in the saddle.

After a hard L4/L5 training session yesterday, today was my day of rest, so I went to the gym and took it easy doing 1x1hour @ 220W at a cadence of 100 plus.

SUNDAY PICNIC!;) TYSON

After a hard L4/L5 training session yesterday, today was my day of rest, so I went to the gym and took it easy doing 1x1hour @ 220W at a cadence of 100 plus. SUNDAY PICNIC!;) TYSONThat's a great indication of your fitness. I think you couldn't have done that last May. I think you are more fit than at any time since you started in January.:D

That's a great indication of your fitness. I think you couldn't have done that last May. I think you are more fit than at any time since you started in January.:DThanks RD, but I'm not so sure. This thread is essentially about improvement, so after your comment I did a little research and analysis.

Going back again to Sunday May 5th.

I did 1x20 @ 250 Watts followed by 1x10 @ 250 watts and with no rest 1x7 @ 240W. This after 93 km in the mountains with my training buddy (so it was drive all the way) 2 days before. I call this day the " peak freak" because on May 12th even after 2 days rest I could only do:-

3x5 @ 250W and 1x15 @ 210W and I've written in my diary "knackered".

22nd June 1x10 @ 250W and 1x5 @ 250W - "knackered".

July 16th 1x20 @ 230W and 1x10 @230W - "hard".

And so on, and so on. What happened on the May 5th I shall never know, but what ever it was, I wish I could recover it.

I think I was on some sort of psychological high which I haven't managed to reproduce since. Sure I'm doing 250W intervals now, but I've had to slog away to get there and it's now September!:(

The only other factor which might have played a part is the weather. It was quite cool then. If that is the case, then I would expect within the next few weeks or so to see a quantum leap in my FTP.　Time will tell! ;) TYSON

I made it to the gym today as I said I would in the "Lance" thread. However, decided against starting my AWC session at 320Watts and opted for 6x2mins @ 300Watts. Well, I made it to the end and was well pleased (thinking it was a first) until I got home and found I did exactly the same on the 25th of August.:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( However, the first one was the hardest and then I learned to completely relax with rhythmic breathing, resulting in the 5th one being the easiest. Am now gaining confidence cycling at the magic figure. I look at it this way; there will come a time when I can sling those 2 minute intervals together and more.

I think I have early senile dementia setting in, and not so early really!:D

TYSON

opted for 6x2mins @ 300Watts.Maybe it's because it's 1:40AM here, but I'm getting tired just thinking about it. That's a pretty good workout. Congrats (even if you have done it before)!:D

Maybe it's because it's 1:40AM here, but I'm getting tired just thinking about it. That's a pretty good workout. Congrats (even if you have done it before)!:D
Yes, but a bit disappointing all the same. Mind you, I am sure that within 2 months I shall look back and say to myself - Only 300Watts! What was all the fuss about at that pussy wattage for an AWC workout. Why won't this damn machine go above 350Watts? :D TYSON

I'll tell you one thing RD, just the exertion and mental focus required at these higher wattages, ignoring your legs begging you for mercy, must have an affect lower down the scale on the L4 intervals - hopefully.;)

At last things seem to be coming together. Shall post the week's figures on Friday.:D

If you're despairing because you don't seem to be getting any better, keep at it and it will come. As RD has said on more than 1 occasion - be patient, it will happen.;) TYSON

At last things seem to be coming together.Aha! I've been sort of waiting for this post. I look forward to seeing the numbers. Perfect timing for your target event.:D

Me, I'm in tapering mode for my race this Saturday. I absolutely hate this phase of training! I have to watch what I eat because my volume and intensity are down and that's a major weight attenuating factor. And, I truly get cranky when I don't have my usual hard mid-week intervals to look forward to. Oh, well, it's only a few more days.:D

I'll tell you one thing RD, just the exertion and mental focus required at these higher wattages, ignoring your legs begging you for mercy, must have an affect lower down the scale on the L4 intervals - hopefully.;)It is pretty amazing how much focus and concentration it requires, isn't it? Especially if you take it to the next level and try to generate the power as smoothly as possible, with no exertion of the upper body at all. I try to make my upper body go to sleep so I can direct all of my energy to my legs. And, yes, I think there is a carryover benefit for efforts at less intensity. They just "feel" easier. There eventually comes this cool moment when you reach the duration that used to be your maximum duration at a given power, but you just push through it (disbelievingly) and keep going. That moment is magical.:D

Ok, I am still on page 35 of this very nice thread, but I thought I would stop lurking and start typing.

I am 28 and just started the cycling thing after having knee surgery in Feb 06. I am still trying to lose the extra weight that I have as I am 6' 1" and 243. I started this thread at page 1 about a week ago and became inspired. So last thursday I took a shot at my FTP test. We have 4 bikes at our gym at work that measure Watts.

185W x 60mins
It was tough maybe could have done more.

Monday:
2x20 @155hr on my MTB. Which is in Andy's HR zone for LT work.

Tuesday:
2x20 @200W 155hr ave.
I could feel it and I liked it.

Wednesday:
2x30 @200W 158hr ave.
and
1x3 @300W
after my last interval.

So if my FTP of 185W to low, or should I just bump it up to 210W for next weeks intervals and just go from there?


Jon

So if my FTP of 185W to low, or should I just bump it up to 210W for next weeks intervals and just go from there?Hi Jon, welcome to the thread and to training with power. If you are taking a short recovery between the 2x30 efforts at 200W (e.g., 5mins) and are not having trouble maintaining power to the end of the 2nd effort, your FTP is probably pretty close to 200W. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If you are able to complete your 2x20 or 2x30 efforts at 200W, then just keep doing them at 200W. You might want to try 210W for the 2nd effort next week. You'll know immediately if you can sustain 210W for both efforts. The 2nd effort will be either tolerably difficult or almost impossible to maintain power. If it's tolerably difficult, then you might want to try to bump up to 210W for both efforts. Knowing your FTP is nice, but what's most important is that you are doing the L4 (or whatever intensity) efforts at an appropriate level. Sounds like you have pretty quickly zoned in. Be patient, you'll see improvements over time (even if a week or two go by and you see no apparent improvement). Good luck and keep us posted.:D

Hey RD!

Saturday's the day! How does the weather look? I hope you can find a way to maintain your privacy but still post something late Saturday or Sunday and let us know, at least generally, about how the hill climb went for you.

But try to do better than Tyson's ride report where all he gave us was:

I can reveal that on today's long ride I achieved my first objective as stated right at the beginning of this thread. Apologies for not wanting to elaborate on that…
:p:p:p!!!!

Tyson, I think I'm going to be able to forgive you for that miserable ride report after you report back on the BIWA II ride in October. When I read your posts from the last couple of weeks I sense that the power is building up again. In fact, it seems barely contained! I think BIWA II is going to produce a pretty amazing story. It's time to get that OLN chopper fired up again!

Hey RD!

Saturday's the day! How does the weather look? I hope you can find a way to maintain your privacy but still post something late Saturday or Sunday and let us know, at least generally, about how the hill climb went for you.

But try to do better than Tyson's ride report where all he gave us was:Yes, Saturday's the day of the first of 5 target events in the next few weeks. The weather should be perfect -- temps ~80 degrees at the start, then cooling as we climb. Forecast crosswinds at 14mph. I feel good. Last Saturday was one of those "no chain" days when I had all the power I wanted on the climbs. I purposely scheduled a ride with 3200' of climbing to see where I am climbing fitness wise. I hope I didn't peak a week too early. My only regret is that I'll be about 10 lbs heavier than my target weight. I backed off my training volume the last two weeks and it's hard for me to lose weight with less than my normal training volume. I think in the future I need to go under my target weight before I start my taper and then plan to gain a few lbs back during the taper. This time I got down to my target weight 2 weeks ago but have gained a little due to the reduced training volume. I hate tapering!

My race strategy is going to be to sit in and relax until the hard middle section. I just hope we don't have a couple of eager beavers who want to race from the get-go. If so, I may let them go and try to reel them in later in the hard middle part of the course. I'm pretty sure I can put out whatever it takes in the first hour, but I'm focused on the 2nd hour. I've worked hard the last 2 months building up my 2hr power, so hopefully the work will pay off on Saturday. It'll be so strange after Saturday to start thinking about my 1hr power again because I haven't given it the slightest thought since June 1. Everything has been focused on 2hrs with no rest because that's what this ride is all about -- a 1hr warmup (at FTP) and a 40-60 min race.

Yes, Saturday's the day of the first of 5 target events in the next few weeks. The weather should be perfect -- temps ~80 degrees at the start, then cooling as we climb. Forecast crosswinds at 14mph. I feel good. Last Saturday was one of those "no chain" days when I had all the power I wanted on the climbs. I purposely scheduled a ride with 3200' of climbing to see where I am climbing fitness wise. I hope I didn't peak a week too early. My only regret is that I'll be about 10 lbs heavier than my target weight. I backed off my training volume the last two weeks and it's hard for me to lose weight with less than my normal training volume. I think in the future I need to go under my target weight before I start my taper and then plan to gain a few lbs back during the taper. This time I got down to my target weight 2 weeks ago but have gained a little due to the reduced training volume. I hate tapering!

My race strategy is going to be to sit in and relax until the hard middle section. I just hope we don't have a couple of eager beavers who want to race from the get-go. If so, I may let them go and try to reel them in later in the hard middle part of the course. I'm pretty sure I can put out whatever it takes in the first hour, but I'm focused on the 2nd hour. I've worked hard the last 2 months building up my 2hr power, so hopefully the work will pay off on Saturday. It'll be so strange after Saturday to start thinking about my 1hr power again because I haven't given it the slightest thought since June 1. Everything has been focused on 2hrs with no rest because that's what this ride is all about -- a 1hr warmup (at FTP) and a 40-60 min race.Sounds awesome RD. Is this the 2 hour climb race up Mount V (Sorry I've forgotten the name of the mountain) Anyway, my money's on you; I'm sure you will do well and show a few of those young bucks how to climb. But watch your weight, as you know every pound counts when climbing.
Best of luck and as Curlew said, we look forward to the race report.;)

Curlew wrote:


But try to do better than Tyson's ride report where all he gave us was:


I can reveal that on today's long ride I achieved my first objective as stated right at the beginning of this thread. Apologies for not wanting to elaborate on that…

:p:p:p!!!!

Tyson, I think I'm going to be able to forgive you for that miserable ride report after you report back on the BIWA II ride in October. When I read your posts from the last couple of weeks I sense that the power is building up again. In fact, it seems barely contained! I think BIWA II is going to produce a pretty amazing story. It's time to get that OLN chopper fired up again!Today 12:36 PM

Now that's not fair Curlew. The ride you're talking about was 2 guys on a normal Sunday ride together. Who wants to hear about that?
I gave a full report on the century ride back in June and shall give a full report on the Biwa ride next month.
That should put a few people to sleep!;)
Curlew will enjoy the Biwa report though. I think he imagines himself to be an itinerant poet wearing a Buddhist style robe and sporting straw sandals wandering the mountain paths of Japan. Dropping in at the occasional hot spring and having his attire removed by a delectable oriental girl clad in the flimsiest of kimonos and attending to his every whim. Gently bathing his brow with the sulphur laden hot water eminating from a bamboo shute protruding from between two giant stones. Finally towelling him down and gently massaging baby oil into his lobster red skin.:D
If you're interested Curlew the link below is the hot spring where we usually go in the mountains. The photos don't do the scenery justice though. The mountains appear much nearer in reality.

http://www.nakao-hutte.com/ Tyson

Sounds awesome RD. Is this the 2 hour climb race up Mount V (Sorry I've forgotten the name of the mountain)Yes, that's the one (Mount Charleston). As RRs go, it is unusual because there's almost no drafting benefit. It's all about w/kg. The wheel-suckers will be way back unless they have the power. It's also very tactical because the grade changes significantly from mile to mile. It's also rare to have a ride that finishes with its steepest grades. It reminds me of some of the mountain stages in the TdF, where they finish with a pretty steep grade.

Anyway, my money's on you; I'm sure you will do well and show a few of those young bucks how to climb. But watch your weight, as you know every pound counts when climbing.I am so mad at myself for not being lighter. I've known for months about this ride and losing weight should be the easiest form of training. I feel like such an incompetent at that part of training.:mad:

Best of luck and as Curlew said, we look forward to the race report.;)I'll file a report (with pictures). Actually, I'm thrilled that I will be riding in my alma mater's colors. I have two degrees from Harvard University and, while the school doesn't offer a cycling jersey with their logo, they have a racing club and I managed to get one of their jerseys sent to me by express mail. My club here in LV is a recreational cycling club and technically (because it is not a USCF club) I can't wear the club jersey. But, the Harvard club is a USCF club and I can wear theirs. Last year I had to wear a generic jersey, so I'm thrilled this year to be wearing the Harvard colors.

I'm with you on the benefit and difficulty of weight control. For most of us, losing 5-10 unneeded lbs ought to be the easiest way to improve the w/kg ratio, ie, climbing speed. But for me, diet discipline is tougher than the miles and hard training. Personally, despite riding/training 12K miles in the last two and a half years, I've also crept up from my 172 target weight to 180 lbs.

Climbing faster now, with much better recovery and endurance, but still missing out on that easy speed increase (~4%) that losing the 8 lbs again would deliver.