It's killing me but..........

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A bigger gun?!?! I need a bloody tank!:D Now we're talking!:D

Will post the total for the week on Friday.BTW, Tyson, you're doing enough volume now that tracking your TSS score weekly is really important. I haven't seen any TSS numbers. I hope you're computing them. Let me know if you don't know how to compute them and I'll give you some benchmarks. FWIW, my weekly TSS is ~1000 points/week and I think that's right on the bubble for me.

BTW, Tyson, you're doing enough volume now that tracking your TSS score weekly is really important. I haven't seen any TSS numbers. I hope you're computing them. Let me know if you don't know how to compute them and I'll give you some benchmarks. FWIW, my weekly TSS is ~1000 points/week and I think that's right on the bubble for me.
RDO,

How many hours are you doing to get 1000 TSS points?

Jim

RDO,

How many hours are you doing to get 1000 TSS points?

Jim~15 hrs/wk.

~15 hrs/wk.
Not too shabby...

~67 TSS points / hour...

If I am guessing correctly, that is upper Zone 2/Lower Zone 3 as an average...

Just another example of "To be able to train more, you must train more..." or something like that... :)

Jim

Not too shabby...

~67 TSS points / hour...

If I am guessing correctly, that is upper Zone 2/Lower Zone 3 as an average...

Just another example of "To be able to train more, you must train more..." or something like that... :)

JimI have completely revised my training rides this spring and summer. All I'm focused on is total volume in L4-L7. If I don't get 50% of total ride time in bona fide L4-L7 efforts, I consider it an inefficient ride. I lump all other ride time as "other." But, building a ride file parsing tool was a bitch.;)

BTW, Tyson, you're doing enough volume now that tracking your TSS score weekly is really important. I haven't seen any TSS numbers. I hope you're computing them. Let me know if you don't know how to compute them and I'll give you some benchmarks. FWIW, my weekly TSS is ~1000 points/week and I think that's right on the bubble for me.Why is it important? You can see what I do each week. I do as much as I possibly can handle. Knowing this weeks TSS is lower than last weeks doesn't help me, because I couldn't have done any more even if I'd wanted to.
I'm happy just making what I think is steady progress. I know you are a technical/figures man, and have it down to a fine art.
I'm still a bit of a "fly by the seat of my pants type."
Maybe when and if I ever get a power meter, I'll change.
I'm aware on a daily basis of exactly what I achieved on that day and no juggling and analysis of the totals would make me do any more or be capable of doing anymore for that matter.
Please don't take any of this as criticism of what you do and the way you work. I shall be for ever grateful for the help and guidance you've given me over the months - taking the time out to advise me and point out where I'm going wrong or what I'm doing right. I'm sure many others tuning into this thread have also benefitted from your teachings.
Sorry again if I disappoint you - give me time I might yet change. Who knows?:D ;) TYSON

Why is it important? You can see what I do each week. I do as much as I possibly can handle. Knowing this weeks TSS is lower than last weeks doesn't help me, because I couldn't have done any more even if I'd wanted to.
I'm happy just making what I think is steady progress. I know you are a technical/figures man, and have it down to a fine art.
I'm still a bit of a "fly by the seat of my pants type."
Maybe when and if I ever get a power meter, I'll change.
I'm aware on a daily basis of exactly what I achieved on that day and no juggling and analysis of the totals would make me do any more or be capable of doing anymore for that matter.
Please don't take any of this as criticism of what you do and the way you work. I shall be ever grateful for the help and guidance you've given me over the months - taking the time out to advise me and point out where I'm going wrong or what I'm doing right. I'm sure many others tuning into this thread have also benefitted from your teachings.
Sorry again if I disappoint you - give me time I might yet change. Who knows?:D ;) TYSONI am not RDO, but here is why I think tracking TSS is important...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t357004.html

I use a crude rolling TSS sheet to track my stress and help plan my peaks. I can't wait until the Training Manager gets released...

RDO's version of a planner sounds great also.

Jim

I am not RDO, but here is why I think tracking TSS is important...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t357004.html

I use a crude rolling TSS sheet to track my stress and help plan my peaks. I can't wait until the Training Manager gets released...

RDO's version of a planner sounds great also.

Jim
Thanks for the link Jim, but do you know if there is an English translation available; I'm not au fait with Double Dutch?:D

Why is it important?The main value of TSS is to avoid overtraining. Total time in the saddle is pretty meaningless because the physiological stress of an hour at L3 is very different from an hour at L4, much less L5 or L6. If you are riding at L4-L6 only 1-2 hours a week, it doesn't much matter because you are at very low risk of overtraining. But, if you increase your volume to 6+ hours/week at L4-L6 (as you have), you greatly increase the risk of overtraining. But, as you say, you manage your training stress by feel (i.e., "seat of the pants"). So, do it that way. Of course, if you have a bad week, my first question is going to be, "What have your TSS numbers been in the last few weeks?":D

Thanks for the link Jim, but do you know if there is an English translation available ... ?I'll attempt one.

Training has two effects. In the long term, it makes you stronger by building fitness. In the short term, though, it makes you weaker by causing fatigue. In the thread you were looking at, we are building a somewhat crude model to try to quanitfy these two effects.

"CTL" stands for "chronic training load." It's how much training you've been doing "over the long haul." It represents an amount of training stress you've proven yourself capable of coping with for some time; the more training stress you can keep up for a long time, the more fit you are, so working up to a high CTL is a goal of a quality training program. CTL, in our model, represents the positive impact of training; i.e., it's a rough approximation of what we mean by "fitness."

"ATL" stands for "acute training load." It's how much training you've been doing recently. If you've been training more than you're accustomed to (ATL > CTL), you're probably somewhat tired, while if you've been training less than you're accustomed to (ATL < CTL), you're probably somewhat fresh. So, ATL is an attempt to model the short-term, negative impact of training; in the same way that CTL is a proxy for fitness, ATL is a proxy for fatigue.

"TSB" stands for "training stress balance." It's basically CTL - ATL (if not arithmetically, then conceptually). Large values of TSB indicate an athlete who is ready to compete: lots of fitness, and little fatigue. Small values of TSB indicate that the athlete is fatigued. This isn't a bad thing necessarily; during any period where you're building fitness, you'll probably have a smaller TSB. However, when it's time to actually cash in all that fitness you've been building, and bring the pain in a target event, you'll want to taper off, let the ATL decay a bit, and before you've lost significant fitness show up on the start line with a high TSB.

I'll attempt one.That's a great summary. That post has been added to my library.:cool:

BTW, for those who think they need a PM to use CP or Training Manager (when it becomes available), au contraire. I built and posted a free app that generates a PT CSV file for any ride of almost any number of ride segments. For someone who does most of his rides on a trainer, this is a very workable solution short of having a PM.:D

I'll second that RD - great summary in simple to understand, plain everyday English. Thanks KM. I'm going back to bed now because I'm fatigued - more later.;)

I'll second that RD - great summary in simple to understand, plain everyday English. Thanks KM. I'm going back to bed now because I'm fatigued - more later.;)Aww, shucks, guys. Thanks. And Tyson, don't dig yourself too big a fatigue hole!

Tyson, don't dig yourself too big a fatigue hole!My concern exactly. Which is why I'm suggesting that he use a metric to monitor total training stress. It was no big deal until he recently ramped up his volume, but now it is a big deal. TSS works for me and many others. Why reinvent the light bulb?

I'm off to the gym now to seek out more fatigue.

Give me fatigue - I need more fatigue, I'm still standing - better than I ever did! Eat your heart out Elton John.:D

I'm off to the gym now to seek out more fatigue.

Give me fatigue - I need more fatigue, I'm still standing - better than I ever did! Eat your heart out Elton John.:DYou go, man! Keep this in mind. The cumulative fatigue will make the high-intensity efforts (all of them) more difficult to complete, but the adaptation benefits will be realized nonetheless. If you were to get some rest, you would be ripping the efforts, but it wouldn't mean you have increased your sustainable power. It would only mean that you are fresh and able to realize the gains of the past few weeks. So, go get tired.:D

RD, I am very disappointed in you - you the mathematical whizz of Henderson County Las Vegas.

I was adding up my time this week so far spent doing L4 workouts, when suddenly I went uuuh!

I hurried back to a post you made last week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit
After last week, a disappointing week this week, until today that is.

Gym trainer
1x20 @ 240W
1x10 @ 240W
1x30 @ 230W
2x20 @ 230W
4x10 @ 230W
The above was Tue/Wed/Thur.

To which RD replied:


Just to be sure I understand, this week you did 1.5 hrs at 240W and 5.5 hrs at 230W, for a total of 7 hrs at L4? If I got it right, that's some serious L4 volume, dude! Congrats! With that kind of daily volume, keep a close eye on how your muscles feel and don't hesitate to back off (either volume or wattage) if you feel flat on a particular day. This is going to put some serious gas in your aerobic tank.


Now repeat after me RD, 20 minutes plus 10 mins plus 30 mins plus 40 mins plus 40 mins = 140 minutes = 2 hours 20 minutes.

That is nowhere near 7 hours, please correct me if I'm mistaken.:D

Unless of course you are including some of the Sunday ride in there. However, even if the total time for the Sunday ride was added in, it wouldn't come to 7 hours.;)

Now repeat after me RD, 20 minutes plus 10 mins plus 30 mins plus 40 mins plus 40 mins = 140 minutes = 2 hours 20 minutes.

That is nowhere near 7 hours, please correct me if I'm mistaken.:DUnless, of course, you read your footnote as meaning that you did this workout on each of the three days. Multiply your 140 mins by 3 and you'll understand why I came up with 7 hrs. Ah, the clarity of written communications.:D

Unless, of course, you read your footnote as meaning that you did this workout on each of the three days. Multiply your 140 mins by 3 and you'll understand why I came up with 7 hrs. Ah, the clarity of written communications.:D
Come onnnnn, not even the great RD could do 2 hours a day of upper L4 intervals 3 days in succession. Clark Kent maybe, but not us mere mortals.:D