It's killing me but..........

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I predict you'll handle this just fine. The 10W makes a huge difference.Says he, sitting on the sofa with a panatella in one hand and a glass of urine, oops sorry, a glass of Budweisser in the other.
I'm the poor sucker who has got to do it. :D

Says he, sitting on the sofa with a panatella in one hand and a glass of urine, oops sorry, a glass of Budweisser in the other.
I'm the poor sucker who has got to do it. :DSays he, strapping his shoes on to go get humbled by three guys 30 years his junior with ~4.5w/kg. He's the poor sucker who does it every day.:D

Well done. I'm impressed that the first 20 was easy. Now, I realize you're fixated on your plan, but I think 3x20s @ 230W would put you closer to your October goal (assuming your schedule permits). There's a continuous tradeoff between volume and intensity, with every individual effort and with every week's cumulative effort. You can actually do L4 efforts at ~210W and above at your current fitness. When you back off the intensity as little as 10W, it's amazing what happens to one's maximum duration. You might think that 10W is less than 5% of your FTP. But, remember that the 1st 100W is basically free, so 10W is really ~8% of the part of your FTP that represents incremental effort. That's huge at the margin.
On a more serious note RD, are you saying by lowering the intensity and increasing the volume, I will have more chance of reaching x Watts? Given unlimited time I will agree, but to achieve my goal by Oct surely I have to push towards x Watts employing an ever increasing wattage. Or perhaps you are saying, more volume will facilitate leap-frogging certain W levels. In other words, if I did 3x20 @ 230 for 3 weeks say, the increased volume would allow me to perhaps give 240W a miss and so on at odd times.

On a more serious note RD, are you saying by lowering the intensity and increasing the volume, I will have more chance of reaching x Watts? Given unlimited time I will agree, but to achieve my goal by Oct surely I have to push towards x Watts employing an ever increasing wattage. Or perhaps you are saying, more volume will facilitate leap-frogging certain W levels. In other words, if I did 3x20 @ 230 for 3 weeks say, the increased volume would allow me to perhaps give 240W a miss and so on at odd times.Well, I'm back from my a** whoopin', and in good humor because I was the first one to the top of the climb today. Of course, it didn't hurt that two of my riding buddies did a century last Saturday. But, hey, I'll take it any way I can get it.:D

What I'm saying is that one faces a daily tradeoff between volume and intensity. Let's take L4s, the subject at hand. If you have an hour, you may as well ride 2x20s or 2x25s @ 100%FT. But, let's say you have 90 minutes available to ride. Then, I think you'll realize more benefits from 3x20s or 3x25s, even if it means cutting back to, say, 95%FT. I think 60mins of L4s @ 95%FT trumps 40mins of L4s at 100%FT.

You can call it "leap-frogging" or anything you want. But, yes, you could ride some serious volume at 230W for a couple of weeks and then re-test and you will probably be stunned at how much you have improved your FTP. Last fall I shocked myself with ~30W increase in FTP.:D

Well, I'm back from my a** whoopin', and in good humor because I was the first one to the top of the climb today. Of course, it didn't hurt that two of my riding buddies did a century last Saturday. But, hey, I'll take it any way I can get it.:D

What I'm saying is that one faces a daily tradeoff between volume and intensity. Let's take L4s, the subject at hand. If you have an hour, you may as well ride 2x20s or 2x25s @ 100%FT. But, let's say you have 90 minutes available to ride. Then, I think you'll realize more benefits from 3x20s or 3x25s, even if it means cutting back to, say, 95%FT. I think 60mins of L4s @ 95%FT trumps 40mins of L4s at 100%FT.

You can call it "leap-frogging" or anything you want. But, yes, you could ride some serious volume at 230W for a couple of weeks and then re-test and you will probably be stunned at how much you have improved your FTP. Last fall I shocked myself with ~30W increase in FTP.:D
Congrats on your good climb RD, but I think before you cheer too loudly, you should see what happens when you do the ride again and the girls are less fatigued.:D

OK, I'll stick to 230Watts this week and next, then go for 260Watts the week after that, which will put me back on schedule.
This had better work RD!:(

I wonder if Warren agrees with you?:rolleyes:

Congrats on your good climb RD, but I think before you cheer too loudly, you should see what happens when you do the ride again and the girls are less fatigued.:D Aw heck, somebody spilled the beans?:D

OK, I'll stick to 230Watts this week and next, then go for 260Watts the week after that, which will put me back on schedule.
This had better work RD!:( Hold on, now. I'm not predicting 260W after two weeks. In fact, I have cautioned against having such specific goals. Rather, I am saying that your FTP will be higher with more volume/less intensity than with less volume/more intensity. I have no idea what your FTP will be. I do think you will be pleasantly surprised, that is unless you have some arbitrary number in mind. I repeat, celebrate all successes, regardless of how small!

Aw heck, somebody spilled the beans?:D

Hold on, now. I'm not predicting 260W after two weeks. In fact, I have cautioned against having such specific goals. Rather, I am saying that your FTP will be higher with more volume/less intensity than with less volume/more intensity. I have no idea what your FTP will be. I do think you will be pleasantly surprised, that is unless you have some arbitrary number in mind. I repeat, celebrate all successes, regardless of how small!
LOL Panicking again RD!:D 240W wasn't too bad yesterday, so I know I could do 250W next week if I tried, (after all I've done it before) and 260W was the target for the week after next.
So logic dictates if more volume trumps intensity, then 260W is on the cards.
Actually I've never done more than 5 minute intervals @ 260W - should be interesting.;)

I LOVE SPECIFIC GOALS! LET'S THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND AND BE DAMNED! :D

LOL Panicking again RD!:D 240W wasn't too bad yesterday, so I know I could do 250W next week if I tried, (after all I've done it before) and 260W was the target for the week after next.
So logic dictates if more volume trumps intensity, then 260W is on the cards.
Actually I've never done more than 5 minute intervals @ 260W - should be interesting.;)

I LOVE SPECIFIC GOALS! LET'S THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND AND BE DAMNED! :DLOL. You go, man. Actually, the numbers I'm talking about are FTP. I'm not talking about these wimpy 2x20 efforts. I'm talking about the real deal, baby -- 60 full minutes of heart-pounding, sweating-buckets, short-out-the exercise-bike, constant power. After which, you get off the bike, thump your chest and shout, "Take that, RD!":D

LOL. You go, man. Actually, the numbers I'm talking about are FTP. I'm not talking about these wimpy 2x20 efforts. I'm talking about the real deal, baby -- 60 full minutes of heart-pounding, sweating-buckets, short-out-the exercise-bike, constant power. After which, you get off the bike, thump your chest and shout, "Take that, RD!":D
Welllll errr yess!:(

Where's Warren when I need him?;)

Welllll errr yess!:(

Where's Warren when I need him?;)

When you're done playing around with that we'll do some 10-15" sprints or some supra threshold intervals on a hill since that's what I often do after I do tempo intervals. Just the thought of doing something fun after all that L4 should help you get through the L4, right? :)



We can only hope there's somebody cute riding next to you...

We can only hope there's somebody cute riding next to you...That's actually a mandatory part of the test protocol. No cutey, no testey.:D

That's actually a mandatory part of the test protocol. No cutey, no testey.:D

I think you mispelled that. Maybe better to say, "No cuteys, no testes."

After last week, a disappointing week this week, until today that is.

Gym trainer
1x20 @ 240W
1x10 @ 240W
1x30 @ 230W
2x20 @ 230W
4x10 @ 230W
The above was Tue/Wed/Thur. On Friday went to the gym and did 1x2min @ 260W and 1x1min @ 250W. Phut! Heart, body and soul was just not in it. I was in and out of the gym in 20 mins and that included a 10 min warm up.

Today went out with my cycling buddy - what a difference. Cycling to the first hill he couldn't match me as I kept piling on the power.

We started the 2km climb together and I hung onto his wheel until the last 200 metres, then the weight difference of 6kilos (was at one time only1-2kilos) proved to be just too much.
He finished that hill 30 yards in front. The next 1km hill he pipped me by 10 yards.

Then we had a very fast downhill and 2km flat to the 17% mountain you told me to avoid RD ;) I gained quite a bit here but he caught and passed me two thirds of the way up.:(

After about 12km we tackled a new mountain (for me), a 6km winding climb between 6 and 9%. He stopped at the bottom at a drinks machine to fill his bottle and said, "I'll catch you up". I thought over my dead body and dug in like a mad man.:)

As I went around every hairpin, I turned round to make sure he wasn't catching me, then worked like a trojan to get out of sight round the next hairpin. I thought if I can just continue like this, it will have a psychological effect on him.

Sure enough after reaching the top with 3 mins to spare, he finally arrived and said, that as he came round each bend he expected to see me, and after 5 or 6 bends and no sign of me it started to play on his mind.

This was another example of one of those inexplicable occasions when you discover some new found energy and ride above yourself.

It would be nice to have a power meter when this happens, just to see what sort of wattage you're generating.

I think I was becoming a bit stale in the gym, and this the first outing on the trusty steed since July 10th did me the world of good. There were oodles of L4 including upper L4 bordering on L5 work. Turning on the power to push the bike along at 45 - 50kmph (with relative ease) on the flat was exhilerating.

Today has inspired me to shed another 2 or 3 kilos whilst steadily increasing my FTP.

P.S. It's my daughter's 8th birthday today and I managed to resist a piece of b'day cake.

SIXTY NINE KILOS HERE I COME! :D TYSON

After last week, a disappointing week this week, until today that is.

Gym trainer
1x20 @ 240W
1x10 @ 240W
1x30 @ 230W
2x20 @ 230W
4x10 @ 230W
The above was Tue/Wed/Thur.Just to be sure I understand, this week you did 1.5 hrs at 240W and 5.5 hrs at 230W, for a total of 7 hrs at L4? If I got it right, that's some serious L4 volume, dude! Congrats! With that kind of daily volume, keep a close eye on how your muscles feel and don't hesitate to back off (either volume or wattage) if you feel flat on a particular day. This is going to put some serious gas in your aerobic tank.

On Friday went to the gym and did 1x2min @ 260W and 1x1min @ 250W. Phut! Heart, body and soul was just not in it. I was in and out of the gym in 20 mins and that included a 10 min warm up.No surprise. You would have had a lot of residual fatigue following 7 hrs of L4 work the prior three days and it's tough to do the L5/L6 work without being rested and mentally fresh. But, I think at this point your priorities should be L4, L5, L6 in that order. Increase your FTP. There's plenty of time to bump your AWC for those short climbs (and when you want to show your cycling buddy your rear wheel).

Today went out with my cycling buddy - what a difference. Cycling to the first hill he couldn't match me as I kept piling on the power.

We started the 2km climb together and I hung onto his wheel until the last 200 metres, then the weight difference of 6kilos (was at one time only1-2kilos) proved to be just too much.
He finished that hill 30 yards in front. The next 1km hill he pipped me by 10 yards.

Then we had a very fast downhill and 2km flat to the 17% mountain you told me to avoid RD ;) I gained quite a bit here but he caught and passed me two thirds of the way up.:(

After about 12km we tackled a new mountain (for me), a 6km winding climb between 6 and 9%. He stopped at the bottom at a drinks machine to fill his bottle and said, "I'll catch you up". I thought over my dead body and dug in like a mad man.:)

As I went around every hairpin, I turned round to make sure he wasn't catching me, then worked like a trojan to get out of sight round the next hairpin. I thought if I can just continue like this, it will have a psychological effect on him.

Sure enough after reaching the top with 3 mins to spare, he finally arrived and said, that as he came round each bend he expected to see me, and after 5 or 6 bends and no sign of me it started to play on his mind.

This was another example of one of those inexplicable occasions when you discover some new found energy and ride above yourself.

I think I was becoming a bit stale in the gym, and this the first outing on the trusty steed since July 10th did me the world of good. There were oodles of L4 including upper L4 bordering on L5 work. Turning on the power to push the bike along at 45 - 50kmph (with relative ease) on the flat was exhilerating.That's a good point. There's no doubt one can increase power on a trainer, but there's nothing like a good road ride to get the payoff.:D

Today has inspired me to shed another 2 or 3 kilos whilst steadily increasing my FTP. It's my daughter's 8th birthday today and I managed to resist a piece of b'day cake. SIXTY NINE KILOS HERE I COME! :DNothing like a few climbs to give us extra incentive. I'm in the same boat, salivating at where I can be by mid-Sept for a target hill climb race.

It would be nice to have a power meter when this happens, just to see what sort of wattage you're generating.Don't you have a b'day coming up soon?:D

RD wrote:
Just to be sure I understand, this week you did 1.5 hrs at 240W and 5.5 hrs at 230W, for a total of 7 hrs at L4? If I got it right, that's some serious L4 volume, dude! Congrats! With that kind of daily volume, keep a close eye on how your muscles feel and don't hesitate to back off (either volume or wattage) if you feel flat on a particular day. This is going to put some serious gas in your aerobic tank.:confused: And I thought it was abysmal. Felt really down, and thought I was losing it.

Quote:


No surprise. You would have had a lot of residual fatigue following 7 hrs of L4 work the prior three days and it's tough to do the L5/L6 work without being rested and mentally fresh. But, I think at this point your priorities should be L4, L5, L6 in that order. Increase your FTP. There's plenty of time to bump your AWC for those short climbs (and when you want to show your cycling buddy your rear wheel).
Only one problem RD, the above when I phutted was supposed to be a VO2Max session not an AWC workout.:(


Nothing like a few climbs to give us extra incentive. I'm in the same boat, salivating at where I can be by mid-Sept for a target hill climb race.
I'm sure you'll do well.;)

Don't you have a b'day coming up soon? :D

Yep, in 13 days from now I shall be banging on 64s door. Mind you, today I felt like a youngster; after all I was riding with a 31 year old, and for the most part more than held my own.

When I go to England next year to collect my private pension money (25% in cash) I plan to treat myself to the best power meter on the market at the time.:)

:confused: And I thought it was abysmal. Felt really down, and thought I was losing it.That's because you are fixated on the wrong statistic. You think you have made progress only if you increase your power on your 2x20s. I keep telling you to focus on total volume in L4-L6 and let nature take its course.

Only one problem RD, the above when I phutted was supposed to be a VO2Max session not an AWC workout.:(Doesn't matter. Both VO2MAX and AWC sessions require both rest and freshness.

When I go to England next year to collect my private pension money (25% in cash) I plan to treat myself to the best power meter on the market at the time.:)You'll have lots of great options, including some that aren't public knowledge yet.

That's because you are fixated on the wrong statistic. You think you have made progress only if you increase your power on your 2x20s. I keep telling you to focus on total volume in L4-L6 and let nature take its course.


No, that's not the reason - I was comparing the total with the week before.:(

In the 2nd week now of 230Watts as per your advice RD.

Decided to try a VO2Max session today. Started off at 250W, I don't know what I was thinking but I eased off after 2 mins then realized that is the AWC recommended interval. So quickly changed the session to an AWC workout.

1x2mins @ 250W
1x2mins @ 260W
1x2mins @ 270W
1x2mins @ 280W
1x2mins @ 290W
1x2mins @ 270W to finish.
What this taught me is, that I'm a long, long way from ever (if ever) doing a 1x20 @ 300Watts. I'll offer one possible excuse, and that is the temperature is in the 90s and the humidity is 70-84%.
But that shouldn't make a difference in an air-conditioned gym I would have thought.

Anyway, although I didn't feel like it, I then did 1x10 @ 230W, and after 5 mins of spinning thought, this is not good enough and did another 1x10 @ 230Watts

Will post the total for the week on Friday.

I hope I shall see a quantum leap soon as I still feel I'm behind what I was doing in May. Little negative thoughts are starting to creep in and that's bad.

Still, don't suppose I should be too disappointed with the above after a very good workout on the bike on Sunday.:)

1x2mins @ 250W
1x2mins @ 260W
1x2mins @ 270W
1x2mins @ 280W
1x2mins @ 290W
1x2mins @ 270W to finish.
What this taught me is, that I'm a long, long way from ever (if ever) doing a 1x20 @ 300Watts.That's a nice little progression. And, if one's FTP is ~230-240W, of course 300W seems like a long way off. Because it is! Think about it. The 1st 100W was free, so for an FTP of 230W the only thing you worked for is ~130W. For an FTP of 300W, you need to work for 200W. That's a 54% increase! It won't feel as though it is "close enough to touch" until your FTP is ~280W. Your body is hard at work building a bigger aerobic engine. Just give it time.

I hope I shall see a quantum leap soon as I still feel I'm behind what I was doing in May. Little negative thoughts are starting to creep in and that's bad.You have only recently increased your volume. Let's see what happens by the end of August. I actually think that you are now all the way back to where you were in May. If you got a little rest, I think you could replicate your best workouts in May right now! But, what's the point? You're tracking a bigger animal now. You need a bigger gun!:D

That's a nice little progression. And, if one's FTP is ~230-240W, of course 300W seems like a long way off. Because it is! Think about it. The 1st 100W was free, so for an FTP of 230W the only thing you worked for is ~130W. For an FTP of 300W, you need to work for 200W. That's a 54% increase! It won't feel as though it is "close enough to touch" until your FTP is ~280W. Your body is hard at work building a bigger aerobic engine. Just give it time.

You have only recently increased your volume. Let's see what happens by the end of August. I actually think that you are now all the way back to where you were in May. If you got a little rest, I think you could replicate your best workouts in May right now! But, what's the point? You're tracking a bigger animal now. You need a bigger gun!:D
RD, how come you always find the right words to utter just when I'm feeling a little despondent?;)

A bigger gun?!?! I need a bloody tank!:D TYSON