It's killing me but..........

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Right, now I'm getting angry (not with you RD) So the program goes like this.
From next week.
WK 1 2x20 @ 200WWell, I like this part and that's all that matters for now. So, why do I like it? Is it because I think you have detrained 20% in the 3 weeks since your century? No. It is because I think you will finish your workouts feeling good and hungry for the next workout. You may not have to do this workout more than once. If your RPE and HR are well below where they were before the century, then bump it up 10W for the next session. I think you will just have to see how your body responds to getting more fit again. As for the rest of it, I'll hold off on that until you read my pending document. Then we can talk about your program going forward, including the big "V" word, Volume. If you're serious about getting to 300W (and I take it at face value that you are), then we have to address the volume issue in addition to the mix issue.:D

Well, I like this part and that's all that matters for now. So, why do I like it? Is it because I think you have detrained 20% in the 3 weeks since your century? No. It is because I think you will finish your workouts feeling good and hungry for the next workout. You may not have to do this workout more than once. If your RPE and HR are well below where they were before the century, then bump it up 10W for the next session. I think you will just have to see how your body responds to getting more fit again. As for the rest of it, I'll hold off on that until you read my pending document. Then we can talk about your program going forward, including the big "V" word, Volume. If you're serious about getting to 300W (and I take it at face value that you are), then we have to address the volume issue in addition to the mix issue.:DBy volume I assume you mean TSS points. If so, we are on the same wavelength. The idea behind me building back up slowly was to increase the TSS points per week i.e. consolidating each level. In the end I think I shall benefit from doing this. The aim is, initially anyway, to do as many weeks at
3x20 @ x power as possible. Have to fly now - catch you later.

By volume I assume you mean TSS points.By volume, I mean total minutes per week of bona fide L4-L6 efforts. Bona fide means they meet both a power and a duration requirement. I get into that in the document. TSS is best for measuring total training stress, but not for measuring whether you are increasing your sustainable power. IOW, there are an infinite number of ways to acquire TSS points, not all of which will result in increased sustainable power. This issue is the heart of training and will be discussed in detail in the document.:D

By volume I assume you mean TSS points.Tyson, I think you should keep a log of your training ride time. I'm not talking about an extensive log. This is the info I would keep, by week and by level (L4-L6):
Mins AP
The levels are:
L4 91-105%FT (min. duration 10min)
L5 106-120%FT (min. duration 3min)
L6 121+%FT (min. duration 30sec)
You'll have to estimate how much of your Sunday rides fall into these categories. Feel free to record other details such as whether you did 3x20s or 2x30s, but I am interested in the above stats. Actually, I think you should attempt to reconstruct your time since January on this basis. Most of it can be reconstructed from your posts here.

Tyson, I think you should keep a log of your training ride time. I'm not talking about an extensive log. This is the info I would keep, by week and by level (L4-L6):
Mins AP
The levels are:
L4 91-105%FT (min. duration 10min)
L5 106-120%FT (min. duration 3min)
L6 121+%FT (min. duration 30sec)
You'll have to estimate how much of your Sunday rides fall into these categories. Feel free to record other details such as whether you did 3x20s or 2x30s, but I am interested in the above stats. Actually, I think you should attempt to reconstruct your time since January on this basis. Most of it can be reconstructed from your posts here.
The problem is RD, I have no idea what my true FTP is. Looking back over my figures, I saw that I'd made erratic jumps in power levels-kind of dabbled in bigger numbers. Hence the above programme (earlier post) is to firmly establish the different power levels. If you wish, for this week as far as L4 goes, we can assume my FT is 200W. The problem is with L5 & L6. Using 200Watts as FTP, the 3 min and 30 sec duration intervals will be far too easy to be of any use.
While we are on the subject, first thing in the gym tomorrow I intend to arrive at an AWC figure to work from, i.e. see how long I can hold 300Watts.
I know the above is a little Heath Robinson, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.;)

The problem is RD, I have no idea what my true FTP is.You can assume that all of your high-intensity efforts > 10mins were L4. You didn't really do any L5 efforts until ~4 weeks before your century IIRC. You can assume that any efforts >3 mins and power at least 50W greater than your routine 2x20s that week were L5 efforts. I don't think you did any L6 efforts, but you should use 2x20 power + 75W for those and duration >30s.

Using 200Watts as FTP, the 3 min and 30 sec duration intervals will be far too easy to be of any use.Those are the minimum durations and if you rode the efforts at the minimum duration you would want to increase power. Anyway, I think your FT is higher than 200W. You'll know soon enough.

While we are on the subject, first thing in the gym tomorrow I intend to arrive at an AWC figure to work from, i.e. see how long I can hold 300Watts. I know the above is a little Heath Robinson, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.;)That should do it. It will serve two purposes. One, it will help you figure out what power to ride your AWC efforts at. Two, it'll be a good MD data point on your Critical Power curve (out of three). Let's be clear. These max duration efforts are a bitch. Five minutes sounds like a short duration, that is until you're riding at a very demanding intensity of effort (for that duration). Hell, if you crank up the intensity of effort high enough, 30 seconds is an eternity.:D

I have one or 2 questions RD. Before doing the AWC test, what sort of warm up would you recommend? I thought 10mins of easy spinning at 150Watts say should do the trick.

This week on Thursday I plan to do myVO2 max work. Depending on how hard 300 Watts is tomorrow, I thought I might try 4x5mins @ 180W. My question is, when does one do the AWC intervals - on the same day?

RD wrote:

Anyway, I think your FT is higher than 200W.I know it is somewhat higher than 200W. 200Watts for 1 hour is a cruise for me, however, I would still like to go for 3x20 @ 200 watts after the AWC test tomorrow. Stay at 200W for the week to confirm I can do it everyday before moving up to 210W next week and so on. TYSON

I have one or 2 questions RD. Before doing the AWC test, what sort of warm up would you recommend? I thought 10mins of easy spinning at 150Watts say should do the trick.Well, I just spin for ~5 mins (at ~150W) before such efforts. But, some people like a longer warmup. It's not like you're creating a lot of muscular stress so you don't need to get your muscles super warm beforehand. I think the main reason people warm up longer is mental. Me, I know it's going to hurt and it's not going to hurt less if I postpone it, so I just get my legs warm and let 'er rip.

This week on Thursday I plan to do myVO2 max work. Depending on how hard 300 Watts is tomorrow, I thought I might try 4x5mins @ 180W.Very funny. Don't fall asleep.:D

My question is, when does one do the AWC intervals - on the same day?Some people like to do one type of high intensity effort exclusively during a ride. Personally, I do a mix of three (and sometimes all four) of the L4-L7 efforts on my main ride. Some days I will focus on L4 efforts, especially if I am doing the long ones (40-70 mins). I'm talking about routine weekly intervals with this statement, not performance tests. For performance tests, I think it's best to do one test only at the beginning of the ride, preferably with a day off the day before. This is just for consistency and repeatability.

I know it is somewhat higher than 200W. 200Watts for 1 hour is a cruise for me, however, I would still like to go for 3x20 @ 200 watts after the AWC test tomorrow. Stay at 200W for the week to confirm I can do it everyday before moving up to 210W next week and so on.That's a good plan. You want to finish the rides feeling hungry for the next session, not feeling like a failure because you couldn't hold XXX watts that you used to be able to hold. You'll get back to where you were quickly enough. No need to rush it. Enjoy 200W while you can.:D

Very funny. Don't fall asleep.:D


Sorry RD, that wasn't an intentional joke. I had to read your comment 3 times before realizing I'd written 180W not 280W as intended.:o

The problem is RD, I have no idea what my true FTP is. Looking back over my figures, I saw that I'd made erratic jumps in power levels-kind of dabbled in bigger numbers.
Tyson, just curious. Do you ge to use the same bike in the gym for your power readouts?

Tyson, just curious. Do you ge to use the same bike in the gym for your power readouts?
Most of the time yes, but I don't find any difference between them if this is what you're hinting at. I wish I could find one that was easier to ride at a given wattage.:D

Sorry RD, that wasn't an intentional joke. I had to read your comment 3 times before realizing I'd written 180W not 280W as intended.:oI don't think you'll fall asleep at 280W. Although relaxing at higher intensities is a learned skill. That's one good byproduct of VO2MAX efforts. When you first begin doing them (assuming you are doing them at the right intensity), there is a tendency to get tense and tight, especially in your upper body. It takes awhile to learn how to make the power with the least unnecessary effort and energy. Since you're doing them in the gym, you might want to try this little exercise. After the 1st minute or so, take your hands off the bars and sit straight up in the saddle and continue to maintain power. Try to remain very still and stable from the hips up and just apply smooth and forceful downstrokes. Do this for a minute at a time and when you are down in the normal riding position try to carry over this same calm and relaxed upper body. It's really VO2MAX efforts that teach you that you can indeed ride at that power (and relax).:D

I don't think you'll fall asleep at 280W. Although relaxing at higher intensities is a learned skill. That's one good byproduct of VO2MAX efforts. When you first begin doing them (assuming you are doing them at the right intensity), there is a tendency to get tense and tight, especially in your upper body. It takes awhile to learn how to make the power with the least unnecessary effort and energy. Since you're doing them in the gym, you might want to try this little exercise. After the 1st minute or so, take your hands off the bars and sit straight up in the saddle and continue to maintain power. Try to remain very still and stable from the hips up and just apply smooth and forceful downstrokes. Do this for a minute at a time and when you are down in the normal riding position try to carry over this same calm and relaxed upper body. It's really VO2MAX efforts that teach you that you can indeed ride at that power (and relax).:DI shall try that sit up and beg idea in Thursday's VO2max session. I usually find though, that when I do sit up in the middle of a 20 min interval, it becomes harder to pedal. Normally I ride in a very low TT position with my elbows resting on the handlebars and perch on the very tip of the saddle.
Will keep you posted. Now 1 hour away from doing AWC test. Why do I feel apprehensive:confused: Maybe it's the L7 pain!;)

I shall try that sit up and beg idea in Thursday's VO2max session. I usually find though, that when I do sit up in the middle of a 20 min interval, it becomes harder to pedal. Normally I ride in a very low TT position with my elbows resting on the handlebars and perch on the very tip of the saddle.The "sit up and beg" position simply takes your upper body out of the picture. If you sit up you must generate power from the waist down.

Will keep you posted. Now 1 hour away from doing AWC test. Why do I feel apprehensive:confused: Maybe it's the L7 pain!;)Well, it's L6, but who am I to quibble about a name?:D

The "sit up and beg" position simply takes your upper body out of the picture. If you sit up you must generate power from the waist down.

Well, it's L6, but who am I to quibble about a name?:D
You mean there's greater pain! :eek:

I'm off to the gym now to do my easy L6 :rolleyes:

Well, AWC test = complete disaster!:( 2 minutes 15 secs @ 300 Watts was me done. Last night I had 2 large Drambui on the rocks and woke up with a headache this morning. Had to drink 1 bottle of Diet Coke just so I could get to the gym. However, I honestly don't think the Drambui made the slightest difference. 300 Watts is just too much for me in my present state.

After 5 mins rest did 2 x 20 plus 1 x 10 all at 200W with a cadence of 90 -110.

As it was so easy, I don't think I need a day off tomorrow, so shall go for
1 x 30mins @ 200W. That should leave me relatively fresh for the VO2 max session on Thursday. I'm thinking in my present condition perhaps 4 x 5 @ 280watts is a little ambitious. Maybe 270Watts is a more sensible figure.
Tyson
P.S. Burnt over 700 calories today - feels good!;)

Well, AWC test = complete disaster!:( 2 minutes 15 secs @ 300 Watts was me done.A well-conceived and executed performance test is never a disaster. It is revealing. You just don't like what it reveals. This test did precisely what it was intended to do. Your max duration was greater than 30s and less than 3m. It provides you with a benchmark for your AWC efforts. You can either ride them at 300W for a shorter duration or you can ride them for ~3 mins at, say, 270W. Either way, at whichever duration you choose the efforts should feel like ~90% efforts. And, it provides you with a key data point for your Critical Power curve. We'll get to that later. And, of course, it gives you a little sneak peak at your 300W FT goal. An hour at 300W is no small feat, regardless of one's age.

I'm thinking in my present condition perhaps 4 x 5 @ 280watts is a little ambitious. Maybe 270Watts is a more sensible figure.You might find 1x5 @ 280W a challenge. I'm guessing your FT is ~220W now. Based on that, I would do the 4x5s at ~265W. I think you'll know after the first one. If the first one is hard to finish, drop it back 5W for the next ones.

You might find 1x5 @ 280W a challenge. I'm guessing your FT is ~220W now. Based on that, I would do the 4x5s at ~265W. I think you'll know after the first one. If the first one is hard to finish, drop it back 5W for the next ones.LOL My FT is getting lower and lower. I assume the aim is to work one's way back to where one started. In my case 130 Watts. At the present rate, I shall be there before long if you continue to subtract Watts at this rate.:D

How many AWC intervals should I do and at what wattage?

How many AWC intervals should I do and at what wattage?I think you want to target ~15-20 mins of L6 efforts cumulatively. Let's say you do them at 2mins each with a recovery of 2-3 mins between each. That's a 40-60 min ride, depending on your initial warmup. As to power, I'd say somewhere between 280-300W. You can estimate your 2min MP based on your AWC test. It's probably ~310W. If you ride your 2min efforts at 90% of your MP, that would be 279W. That's my rule, 90% of MP. I assure you the last 2-3 will be very hard to complete. The second hand gets stuck in the mud after ~5 of these. The key is that you must learn to relax doing these. Yeah, yeah, I know, how the hell do I relax at 280W? It's easy. Relax your upper body completely. Relax your neck. Don't grip the bars at all, just make a "V" with your thumb and first finger and cradle the bars so you won't be tempted to wrap your fingers around them and pull. Put all your mental energies into the downstrokes. Make them smooth as butter, forceful but smooth. Maintain your cadence within +/- 1rpm. Before you know it, 2mins is over. Piece of cake.:D

You mean there's greater pain! :eek:

I'm off to the gym now to do my easy L6 :rolleyes:
Actually, L7 when done properly is less painful than L6. This is because L7 strictly works with neuromuscular power, using creatine and ATP as substrates. A proper L7 effort is all over before things get painful; by the time things get painful, you're training anaerobic capacity, not neuromuscular power.

L6 is the gold standard for a miserable work-out. For my money, nothing in the world hurts as much as a truly maximal 1 minute effort. Shudder.