It's killing me but..........

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I guess I'll just have to keep my speed at above 25mph!;) In that case, you should get the 700x23c tires rather than the 700x25c tires. Now, let me guess. You think I'm kidding? Nope. It matters, at least to us math types who want to overcome as little unnecessary resistance (of all types) as possible. But, then, I guess you non math types don't worry about such stuff as you fly by the seat of your pants. Hey, I think you should ignore this data and go by "feel.":D

In that case, you should get the 700x23c tires rather than the 700x25c tires. Now, let me guess. You think I'm kidding? Nope. It matters, at least to us math types who want to overcome as little unnecessary resistance (of all types) as possible. But, then, I guess you non math types don't worry about such stuff as you fly by the seat of your pants. Hey, I think you should ignore this data and go by "feel.":DOn the contrary RD, I found that link very interesting and I'm really annoyed with the guy in my LBS for putting those crap tyres on the bike when I bought it. I'll sort him out when I go to pick up my Sidis.

Just one thing RD, that's the second time you've had a sly dig at my "fly by the seat of my pants" philosophy.:) Instinct, intuition, call it what you like, vis-a vis endurance in sports is not something that one can employ after 1 day of training or competing.
I had 25 years of running/racing all distances up to 30 miles. You learn through experience how to pace yourself. I never once bonked.except once I got cramp in the calves at 22 miles in a marathon while running comfortably (salt deficiency)
For me it's the same for cycling; If I count the time when I was 15,
I've done 6 100 milers, 3 (not 2) in the last 2 years or so. Again I didn't bonk.
I'll agree with you that perhaps I'm cycling below my capability on the Sunday rides through not having a power meter. But I'll tell you something, I bet I'm not far in out the amount of power I'm generating.
When I finish the Sunday rides, I wouldn't want to do another 10km.
Be it 50km, 70km or 93km, I reckon I pace it just about right.
If I were racing, I'm sure I would need to be more precise so as not to burn myself out on a climb for example. But there you go!
Having said all that, I'm not anti-power meters, but can get by without bonking for the time being, or to be more exact - until my wife loosens the purse strings.:D

Just one thing RD, that's the second time you've had a sly dig at my "fly by the seat of my pants" philosophy.:) Okay, no more cracks about your "seat of your pants" philosophy. But, usually when someone says they can manage their intensity of effort by "feel," it tells me one thing -- they haven't ridden with a power meter yet. Most of us who ride with PMs know better -- we suck at managing our intensity of effort by feel. I tried once to ride at a specific target power without looking at my power meter. It was hilarious. I wasn't even within 25W, and that was after a couple of tests so I knew I was underestimating my intensity. There's a post around here somewhere by Andy Coggan about a TT he rode on the day after a long flight and a really hard RR. He said he felt terrible and there was no way he could ride at his usual power, but that his numbers were right on target and completely different from how he "felt." Our bodies lie to our brains.

Okay, no more cracks about your "seat of your pants" philosophy. But, usually when someone says they can manage their intensity of effort by "feel," it tells me one thing -- they haven't ridden with a power meter yet. Most of us who ride with PMs know better -- we suck at managing our intensity of effort by feel. I tried once to ride at a specific target power without looking at my power meter. It was hilarious. I wasn't even within 25W, and that was after a couple of tests so I knew I was underestimating my intensity. There's a post around here somewhere by Andy Coggan about a TT he rode on the day after a long flight and a really hard RR. He said he felt terrible and there was no way he could ride at his usual power, but that his numbers were right on target and completely different from how he "felt." Our bodies lie to our brains.
OK, we agree to differ slightly at the moment. Let's leave it there.

I have just read the whole thread:

CAN CYCLING LEAD TO A REDUCED LIFE EXPECTANCY?

RD, you were conspicuous in your absence. Do you have no view one way or the other on this topic? At our age I think we are possibly more qualified to comment than some of the contributors.
I don't know about you, but I plan to continue cycling (well) well into my seventies. ;)

OK, we agree to differ slightly at the moment. Let's leave it there.We have to because you won't know until you begin riding with a PM. Until then, it's academic.

I have just read the whole thread:
CAN CYCLING LEAD TO A REDUCED LIFE EXPECTANCY?
RD, you were conspicuous in your absence. Do you have no view one way or the other on this topic? At our age I think we are possibly more qualified to comment than some of the contributors. I don't know about you, but I plan to continue cycling (well) well into my seventies. ;) I think the question is ridiculous on its face, unless one is worried about being exposed to vehicles (which is a bona fide concern). It's about like asking if smoking is hazardous to one's health. I don't think one needs a PhD to answer either question. And, yes, I plan to be not only cycling but racing and winning races for a very long time. I only post on a thread if I feel I have something to add. I don't feel I have anything to add to such threads.

We have to because you won't know until you begin riding with a PM. Until then, it's academic.

I think the question is ridiculous on its face, unless one is worried about being exposed to vehicles (which is a bona fide concern). It's about like asking if smoking is hazardous to one's health. I don't think one needs a PhD to answer either question. And, yes, I plan to be not only cycling but racing and winning races for a very long time. I only post on a thread if I feel I have something to add. I don't feel I have anything to add to such threads.Point taken.:)
One thing I've noticed with this forum compared with other (not cycling) forums I visit, is the paucity of humour/humor. I think we should laugh at ourselves more often. Only one other person in the gym trains like I do.
I glance at the next guys power figure with envy. 70 Watts! And reading a novel at the same time. Ah, bliss!:rolleyes:

Anyway, in the above mentioned thread Carrera said:


For some reason, climbers seem to have the shortest life span. It's well known that climbers have a habit of suffering from depression and several committed suicide (Jimenez and Pantani being 2 examples).

To which Scotty replied, and this curled me up:

About halfway up a huge hill, I start to feel the same :)

Brilliant humour, but not that far from the truth sometimes.:D

One thing I've noticed with this forum compared with other (not cycling) forums I visit, is the paucity of humour/humor. I think we should laugh at ourselves more often.I love it when people interject some humor into these discussions. I'm just too focused at the moment working on a major project that (I think) can take training and racing with power to a new level. More later, in due time...

One thing you might want to look into is tires. There is a huge difference in rolling resistance of tires (e.g., 20W difference from best to worst) and some of the highly regarded tires such as Conti 4000s actually have lousy ratings. Check out the data here http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html. If it were me, I'd probably go with one of the Vittorias or the Vredestein Fortezza Tri Comp (not on the list). Tires are cheap weapons in the arms race.
I couldn't acutally see anything about the GP4000's on the list that is at the bottom of the page. Do you have a link for that specifically?

Thanks
Ash

So what happened to your numbers update, Tyson? Where are you right now? 250W FTP? :)

I couldn't acutally see anything about the GP4000's on the list that is at the bottom of the page. Do you have a link for that specifically?I'm pretty sure I have data on the Conti 4000, but can't find it at the moment. I also have some data on the Vredesteins somewhere, but can't find that either. I'm going to consolidate all of my wheel and tire data in the near future. If I can remember, I'll come back and post it when it's done. A major problem is the lack of a comprehensive test database on wheels and tires, with consistent (and published) test protocols. I may do something about that in the near future.

So what happened to your numbers update, Tyson? Where are you right now? 250W FTP? :)
DON'T PUSH ME!!! ASTA LA VISTA BABY!!! I'll BE BACK!!! :cool:

DON'T PUSH ME!!! ASTA LA VISTA BABY!!! I'll BE BACK!!! :cool: Tyson, you don't get it. NS and others are just very keenly interested in how you are doing and how you are doing it. Your accomplishments to date are impressive, notwithstanding your age. When you factor in your age, they are doubly impressive. So, don't mistake their keen interest in your progress as pushing you. What was the line in the first Dirty Harry movie? You know, the scene where the bank robber is lying on the ground with his shotgun within reach and Dirty Harry is standing over him with possibly no bullets in his gun. After Dirty Harry bluffs the guy and kicks away the shotgun, the guy looks at Dirty Harry and says something like, "I gots to know!"

Tyson, you don't get it. NS and others are just very keenly interested in how you are doing and how you are doing it. Your accomplishments to date are impressive, notwithstanding your age. When you factor in your age, they are doubly impressive. So, don't mistake their keen interest in your progress as pushing you. What was the line in the first Dirty Harry movie? You know, the scene where the bank robber is lying on the ground with his shotgun within reach and Dirty Harry is standing over him with possibly no bullets in his gun. After Dirty Harry bluffs the guy and kicks away the shotgun, the guy looks at Dirty Harry and says something like, "I gots to know!"
Actually I do get it RD. Just my sense of humour/humor I guess.
I think NS knows that - I hope.;)

Regarding the rolling resistance issue:

from the Conti website........

Best Competitor GP3000 GP4000
Max Pressure 115 Psi 125 Psi 125 Psi
Rolling Resistance on max pressure 0.55% 0.66% 0.53%
Puncture protection at 95 Psi 55 daN 65 daN 70 daN
Weight 210g 210g 205g


Pretty funny that they show RR at max pressure (125psi) and then do the puncture protection at 95psi. I suspect the improvement between the 3000 and the 4000 was less than the 5 daN at max pressure. Therefore, you can either take lower RR and higher puncture chances or higher RR and less puncture.

Actually I do get it RD. Just my sense of humour/humor I guess.
I think NS knows that - I hope.;)I do get it now. I am still interested in knowing your status nonetheless. And its "I'll BE BACH!!! "

I do get it now. I am still interested in knowing your status nonetheless. And its "I'll BE BACH!!! "
OK, I'll be Bach and you can be Chopin.:D

As the forecast is for rain on Sunday, I shuffled my training schedule around.

Today did my 93km course climbing better than ever and finished strongly knocking 12 minutes off last weeks time.
It's all coming together NS under RD's guidance. The plan for Tuesday in the gym is 2 x 20 @ 240 Watts, but it's easy to sit here and say that; shall have to see how much today's ride has taken out of me. It's alright for you youngsters, you recover much quicker than us old fogeys.

I've altered my target (I can see RD frowning from here :D ) to try and do 2x20 @250 before my 100 miler in June.
Also plan to to extend my Sunday ride on the 14th by at leat 10 km adding in some nasty hills.

There that's the current status. Still pathetic isn't it?:(

RD wrote:



Your accomplishments to date are impressive, notwithstanding your age. When you factor in your age, they are doubly impressive.


Well, you say that RD, but I have no one to draw a comparison with - someone who is following a similar training regimen. I'm sure there are some lurkers out there following your advice and doing equally well if not better.

The only difference is they are more modest and keeping their progress under wraps. I started to reveal my figures and so I guess I have to continue.
My philosophy has become; what the hell, let people see how an old f--t struggles to improve and if it helps one person (oldie) to have new faith in themselves - all well and good!:)

I've altered my target (I can see RD frowning from here :D ) to try and do 2x20 @250 before my 100 miler in June. Also plan to to extend my Sunday ride on the 14th by at leat 10 km adding in some nasty hills.Sounds good to me, and you can use your new cumulative TSS points to compare total stress week to week (now that you are a math convert).:D You might want to go easy beginning ~3 days before your long ride. Nothing fancy, just back it down a notch.

Tyson,

Well, you say that RD, but I have no one to draw a comparison with - someone who is following a similar training regimen. I'm sure there are some lurkers out there following your advice and doing equally well if not better.

I really am indebted to you and RD for creating a conversation that, with other threads on Cycling Forums, helped me bring structure to what previosly had been training organized around "hours on the bike". I will post some figures in the next day or so. The reason I haven't posted is that I am trying to be more quantitative and power oriented but like you and NS I don't have a powermeter......yet. So my training over the winter was done on an indoor trainer with a cycling computer that provided wattage figures. In the last 90 days I have been back outside on the bike where I have ridden a circular 1 mile loop and tried to estimate power from speed. Both of these approaches leave me troubled about posting my numbers because I'm not confident that they are accurate or precise. With all of the difficulties in the way I have been quantifying power, I haven't even gone back the past several months in my training log to quantify overall improvement. But I will do this over the weekend and post something.

The best way I have of gauging overall improvement I think is in a 40K TT. I did one last October and my next opportunity is May 14th. I thought the October vs May 40K TT times and average speed converted to watts would be a better way of showing my progress to you and RD.

But putting my efforts to quantify my progress aside I sure do see the improvement when I am on my group rides. Two weekends ago I was out with a great bunch of guys who were patient and encouraging as they pulled me all over central Indiana last summer. Based on my group rides this year, I think my power numbers are up significantly. On group rides this spring I haven't just been hanging on but have been spending time at the front and contributing in ways that were out of the question last fall.

Tyson,



I really am indebted to you and RD for creating a conversation that, with other threads on Cycling Forums, helped me bring structure to what previosly had been training organized around "hours on the bike". I will post some figures in the next day or so. The reason I haven't posted is that I am trying to be more quantitative and power oriented but like you and NS I don't have a powermeter......yet. So my training over the winter was done on an indoor trainer with a cycling computer that provided wattage figures. In the last 90 days I have been back outside on the bike where I have ridden a circular 1 mile loop and tried to estimate power from speed. Both of these approaches leave me troubled about posting my numbers because I'm not confident that they are accurate or precise. With all of the difficulties in the way I have been quantifying power, I haven't even gone back the past several months in my training log to quantify overall improvement. But I will do this over the weekend and post something.

The best way I have of gauging overall improvement I think is in a 40K TT. I did one last October and my next opportunity is May 14th. I thought the October vs May 40K TT times and average speed converted to watts would be a better way of showing my progress to you and RD.

But putting my efforts to quantify my progress aside I sure do see the improvement when I am on my group rides. Two weekends ago I was out with a great bunch of guys who were patient and encouraging as they pulled me all over central Indiana last summer. Based on my group rides this year, I think my power numbers are up significantly. On group rides this spring I haven't just been hanging on but have been spending time at the front and contributing in ways that were out of the question last fall.Glad that you find this thread useful Curlew. I figured with 13,000 plus views there must be others out there saying nothing but doing plenty. I look forward to seeing your power numbers which I'm sure will be pretty impressive. Actually, it's not what you are doing at present so much as to how much improvement you've made since adopting structured training methods.
And congrats on getting out in front of the group and contributing. I think the only group I could get out in front of at the moment would be "Uncle Archibald's Sunday Fun Riders".:)

Now to change the subject; under extreme pressure from RapDaddyo through PMs :D I can reveal that on today's long ride I achieved my first objective as stated right at the beginning of this thread. Apologies for not wanting to elaborate on that, but it's over and done and I now want to concentrate on upping my power ready for June4 Century and beyond. What I'm really looking forward to is 149Km around Lake Biwa here in Japan. It's more suited to my style of riding - mostly flat.;) TYSON