It's killing me but..........

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You did better than I. I rode in an 80-mile non-competitive event on Saturday. But, the local clubs always send their best guys to the front and the pace gets pretty brisk. I stayed with the lead group the first hour, but got dropped when they accelerated hard after a stop light. I chased for another half hour and picked up a bunch of dropees, but never got back on. After two hours, both of my quads cramped (too few hours on the bike the last few months), so finished the ride with my quads almost fully seized up. Sometimes when my leg got to the bottom of the downstroke I wasn't fully sure it would come back up again (LOL). But, I survived. Increasing your distance in anticipation of your big ride in June is a good idea. It really will be all about pace. Too bad you don't have a PM. That would make it easy.Rd, it looks like I'll have to alter your training regime - got dropped?!?!?

We're going to have to introduce some sprint training into your workout, arrange a heart and lung transplant; thinking about it, maybe we should just transplant your old body.:D

PS You'll be pleased to know I've lost another kilogram. I'm not eating less, have just cut out donuts, cakes and chocolate. Also stopped my intake of caffeine, that is, coffee and diet coke. I find when I have a coffee I need a donut to go with it.
Also I never mentioned this before, but because I was drinking so much coffee and coke my pulse was really irregular. When finally 3 weeks ago it became - 1,2,3 stop, 1,2,3 stop ad infinitum, I thought enough is enough! It took 2 weeks to get the caffeine out of my system or at least the effect of the caffeine, and now my pulse is as regular as clockwork. TYSON

Rd, it looks like I'll have to alter your training regime - got dropped?!?!?Yup. No matter how much power you have, somebody's got more. The accelerations were ~500W. Those empty one's matchbook in a hurry.

We're going to have to introduce some sprint training into your workout, arrange a heart and lung transplant; thinking about it, maybe we should just transplant your old body.:DNah, more hours in the saddle will do nicely.

You'll be pleased to know I've lost another kilogram. I'm not eating less, have just cut out donuts, cakes and chocolate. Also stopped my intake of caffeine, that is, coffee and diet coke. I find when I have a coffee I need a donut to go with it. Also I never mentioned this before, but because I was drinking so much coffee and coke my pulse was really irregular. When finally 3 weeks ago it became - 1,2,3 stop, 1,2,3 stop ad infinitum, I thought enough is enough! It took 2 weeks to get the caffeine out of my system or at least the effect of the caffeine, and now my pulse is as regular as clockwork. TYSONSounds as though you got your wife on board your new fitness regimen. Congrats. You'll feel the absence of those kilos on the climbs, big time.

Sounds as though you got your wife on board your new fitness regimen. Congrats.
No, not at all - sheer willpower and thinking about June 4th and hammering my cycling partner!;)

Looking forward to the vo2max test tomorrow - I think!:rolleyes:

Regimen?:o Did I say regime? Must be the discipline playing on my mind. Something like the Hussein regime.:) Think I'll give up my job as a proofreader; can't even proofread my own stuff. But then on the other hand I don't pay myself for proofreading my own scribing.

Just one hour away now from doing my first vo2max test. I feel like a child about to open his birthday presents.

Is this normal? At the moment everything seems like a new adventure. I suppose this euphoria will wear off after a while.:(

I guess I'm feeling elated because I'm not a young buck, and doing things on the bike (or will be doing) I never dreamt were possible.:)

Just one hour away now from doing my first vo2max test. I feel like a child about to open his birthday presents.

Is this normal? At the moment everything seems like a new adventure. I suppose this euphoria will wear off after a while.:(

I guess I'm feeling elated because I'm not a young buck, and doing things on the bike (or will be doing) I never dreamt were possible.:)
:D Haha..you are funny Tyson. Its just a short ride! It will be done in literally a few minutes. I always love and envy your enthusiasm. Good luck.

:D Haha..you are funny Tyson. Its just a short ride! It will be done in literally a few minutes. I always love and envy your enthusiasm. Good luck.
NS, you make it sound like a vasectomy!:eek:

Just one hour away now from doing my first vo2max test. I feel like a child about to open his birthday presents.

Is this normal? At the moment everything seems like a new adventure. I suppose this euphoria will wear off after a while.:(

I guess I'm feeling elated because I'm not a young buck, and doing things on the bike (or will be doing) I never dreamt were possible.:)Go for it, dude. Have a good ride and I'll be anxiously awaiting your results.:D

NS, you make it sound like a vasectomy!:eek:
Im laughing my ass off! :D :D :D :D

Well, it's all over, I've opened all my presents.:)

So what was the result? Absolutely ridiculous!:confused:

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10 minutes? NO!
















15 minutes? NO!
















20 minutes. NO!
















Then what about 25 minutes? NO! A clue - I burnt 566 calories.
















30 minutes? NO!
















35 minutes and 20 seconds!!!!

That's thrown you I bet RD. I'ts certainly thrown me. What happens now?:D

35 minutes and 20 seconds!!!! That's thrown you I bet RD. I'ts certainly thrown me. What happens now?:D You're an animal!:D Actually, I privately predicted 20 minutes, only because of the ease with which you were handling the 200W intervals last week. But, by any definition, Tyson, that's awesome! There are two possible explanations. One is that your FT is significantly higher than 200W, say, 220-230W. The other is that your anaerobic work capacity is very high compared with your FT. But, the duration of 35mins should have isolated your aerobic capacity for the most part.

Now, where do you go from here, after you go out and celebrate your new power numbers? Well, there's still this matter of finding the right power target for your VO2MAX intervals. Obviously, it's not 240W. Maybe 260-265W? Let me work on a VO2MAX workout at 260W. I'll post it later tonight. I want to work out the NP, IF and TSS for you.

Again, congrats! You've made huge progress and you are an example of what's possible.:cool:

You're an animal!:D Actually, I privately predicted 20 minutes, only because of the ease with which you were handling the 200W intervals last week. But, by any definition, Tyson, that's awesome! There are two possible explanations. One is that your FT is significantly higher than 200W, say, 220-230W. The other is that your anaerobic work capacity is very high compared with your FT. But, the duration of 35mins should have isolated your aerobic capacity for the most part.

Now, where do you go from here, after you go out and celebrate your new power numbers? Well, there's still this matter of finding the right power target for your VO2MAX intervals. Obviously, it's not 240W. Maybe 260-265W? Let me work on a VO2MAX workout at 260W. I'll post it later tonight. I want to work out the NP, IF and TSS for you.

Again, congrats! You've made huge progress and you are an example of what's possible.:cool:
Let me help you out here RD. Today was the first time ever I went straight on the bike. Usually I do an hour or so on the weights to get the maxium benefit before going on the bike. I think now that my priorities have changed, I shall start with the bike first. I think in the past I was possibly getting on the bike already tired.
Today the first 20 minutes or so were so easy I felt I should be doing 260W.
So I guess you might not be far out with 260-265W. Only the last 3 mins were difficult when my cadence dropped. And to be very honest, at 35 mins I was still moving the pedals around albeit very very slowly. Not quite sure how much more I could have squeezed out. If the new bike and PM were at stake - maybe another 2 or 3 mins.

Now, who was it who said it will be over in a few minutes? I'll kill him!:D

Well, here are my thoughts on how you might change your workouts beginning this week. I think you should put in VO2MAX intervals twice a week. You'll have to experiment with the intensity (power), because the test didn't really reveal your 4-7min power as planned. The 5min VO2MAX intervals below shouldn't leave you wasted. Rather, they should feel like ~90% efforts. So, give this a try and see how it goes.
4x5min @ 260W L5s w/5min recovery @ 100W after each
+5min @ 100W
1x20min @ 210W L4
On the other day(s), just do your usual 20min L4 intervals at 210W. FYI, the VO2MAX days have AP~167W, NP~198W, IF~.88, TSS~100pts. If you can't finish all of the 260W intervals, then back off to 250W for the set.

In case you're wondering why I waited until now to suggest VO2MAX intervals, it is because VO2MAX responds quickly to training but maxes out quickly as well. So, you'll get most of the potential benefit from this training between now and your important rides in a few weeks. The L4 work you have been doing since January is slower to respond so that's why I suggested that you get started with them asap. The VO2MAX work will add a nice bit of icing to the cake you're baking. As to mixing L4 and L5, I do it all the time, although I suppose there are some who believe in focusing exclusively on one adaptation per workout. What do you think?

Let me help you out here RD. Today was the first time ever I went straight on the bike. Usually I do an hour or so on the weights to get the maxium benefit before going on the bike. I think now that my priorities have changed, I shall start with the bike first. I think in the past I was possibly getting on the bike already tired.
Today the first 20 minutes or so were so easy I felt I should be doing 260W.
So I guess you might not be far out with 260-265W. Only the last 3 mins were difficult when my cadence dropped. And to be very honest, at 35 mins I was still moving the pedals around albeit very very slowly. Not quite sure how much more I could have squeezed out. If the new bike and PM were at stake - maybe another 2 or 3 mins.

Now, who was it who said it will be over in a few minutes? I'll kill him!:Dhaha...:D Ok, now for those of us that just tuned in, what was this episode about? Did you ride 120%FT for whatever amount of time it took?
I thought you were going to do a 5min MP test and thats why I said few minutes.

Edit: And I need to congratulate ya. Good job dude!

haha...:D Ok, now for those of us that just tuned in, what was this episode about? Did you ride 120%FT for whatever amount of time it took?
I thought you were going to do a 5min MP test and thats why I said few minutes.

Edit: And I need to congratulate ya. Good job dude!Lol NS This is what it was about.

Posted by RapDaddyo:


Want a sneak peak, do you? Okay, here's the deal. Your FT is a function of two things. One, your VO2MAX is an absolute upper limit to your aerobic capacity, but at least as important to FT is your aerobic efficiency. You have been working exclusively on your efficiency and not on raising your VO2MAX. I deferred that because it is highly responsive to training but whatever improvement you are going to get you are going to get most of it quickly. Increasing aerobic efficiency is a much longer process, so I wanted you to get started ASAP.

The classic VO2MAX work is at ~120%FT. Your max duration will be ~5 mins, give or take. What makes a VO2MAX effort hard is not the 120%FT intensity but rather the duration. The first few minutes aren't that hard at all. It's the last couple of minutes and the last minute in particular (of your max duration) that are brutal. But, the adaptation benefit kicks in much sooner than the last minute or two. There's simply no need to ride VO2MAX intervals to exhaustion as some do. The first thing you're going to do is to determine your max duration at 240W. This is a key performance test and also will be the basis for setting the duration of your VO2MAX intervals. IOW, I don't know what the duration of your intervals should be until I know how long you can hold 240W as though your life depended on it. So, you'll do a test at the beginning of your gym workout, warmup at an easy pace for 5mins and then ride at 240W until you absolutely cannot hold 240W any longer even if a brand new, PM-equipped bike is yours for free if you can just hold it for 5 secs longer. When your power drops below 240W, you're done, end of test. Then we'll figure out how much to take off for your intervals (e.g., 1 min). On your gym days, you'll begin with ~4-5 VO2MAX intervals at 120%FT with equal duration recovery at 100W, then as much FT work as your schedule permits (e.g., 20-40mins). It's nothing to be feared, although the max duration test can be a bit unnerving.
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Well, here are my thoughts on how you might change your workouts beginning this week. I think you should put in VO2MAX intervals twice a week. You'll have to experiment with the intensity (power), because the test didn't really reveal your 4-7min power as planned. The 5min VO2MAX intervals below shouldn't leave you wasted. Rather, they should feel like ~90% efforts. So, give this a try and see how it goes.
4x5min @ 260W L5s w/5min recovery @ 100W after each
+5min @ 100W
1x20min @ 210W L4
On the other day(s), just do your usual 20min L4 intervals at 210W. FYI, the VO2MAX days have AP~167W, NP~198W, IF~.88, TSS~100pts. If you can't finish all of the 260W intervals, then back off to 250W for the set.

In case you're wondering why I waited until now to suggest VO2MAX intervals, it is because VO2MAX responds quickly to training but maxes out quickly as well. So, you'll get most of the potential benefit from this training between now and your important rides in a few weeks. The L4 work you have been doing since January is slower to respond so that's why I suggested that you get started with them asap. The VO2MAX work will add a nice bit of icing to the cake you're baking. As to mixing L4 and L5, I do it all the time, although I suppose there are some who believe in focusing exclusively on one adaptation per workout. What do you think?What do I think?:( I'm in new territory here, and entirely in your hands.
It all sounds OK to me. So tomorrow I'll just do 2x20 @210W or 2x30 if I feel up to it. Then on Thursday the 5 minute VO2MAX intervals etc.

Wow, can you smell that cake!:D

PS AP etc??

PPS 4x5min @ 260W L5s w/5min recovery @ 100W after each
+5min @ 100W
Does this mean 10 minutes @ 100W after the last VO2MAX interval ?

AP etc??Measures of intensity and stress. The most important number is NP (Normalized Power), which is the ride's physiological stress if you had ridden at a constant power. IOW, the ride is equivalent to riding at a constant power of 198W for the entire duration. AP is Average Power, just a straight arithmetic average of the workout segments. Note how much this understates the ride's physiological stress. You'll see what I mean when you do the workout. After you finish, ask yourself if it felt like a ride at a constant power of 167W.

Does this mean 10 minutes @ 100W after the last VO2MAX interval ?Yes, just to give you a little extra rest before the L4 interval. If you don't need the full recovery segments, then cut them short. As usual, what matters is the minutes at power, not the recovery durations.

Then on Thursday the 5 minute VO2MAX intervals etc.Hey Tyson, I forgot to tell you what to do if you're unable to maintain power for the full duration of the VO2MAX intervals. Unlike the test you did on Tuesday, the purpose of these intervals is not to ride to your max duration. Only the last one of the set should even approach your max duration and even that one should not be all that hard to complete. If you find that you can't sustain the target power for the full duration for any of the 260W intervals, just back off and begin your recovery duration early. If I have guessed wrong and the target power is too high, you can reduce it for the next session. As I have said before, only performance tests are to max duration. Routine intervals are not intended to be exercises in survival. They should actually be sort of fun.:D

Hey Tyson, I forgot to tell you what to do if you're unable to maintain power for the full duration of the VO2MAX intervals. Unlike the test you did on Tuesday, the purpose of these intervals is not to ride to your max duration. Only the last one of the set should even approach your max duration and even that one should not be all that hard to complete. If you find that you can't sustain the target power for the full duration for any of the 260W intervals, just back off and begin your recovery duration early. If I have guessed wrong and the target power is too high, you can reduce it for the next session. As I have said before, only performance tests are to max duration. Routine intervals are not intended to be exercises in survival. They should actually be sort of fun.:D
Thanks RD, that's nice to know. IOW, after 30 seconds @ 260W I can back off and do my recovery. Sounds good to me. Might do 20 of those tomorrow.:D
PS Today like every Wed was hard - legs were like lead again. If last week is anything to go on, should be fine tomorrow. I'm beginning to think I was running on adrenalin yesterday though.;)

Thanks RD, that's nice to know. IOW, after 30 seconds @ 260W I can back off and do my recovery. Sounds good to me. Might do 20 of those tomorrow.:DI realize you're kidding, but there are actually entire threads devoted to discussing 30s intervals and they will indeed produce increases in VO2MAX and FT (if ridden at a higher power such as 175%MAP). As will lots of other interval protocols, each of which has its devotees. They are just not an efficient use of training time IMO. My main point was to remind you that, even though you are beginning to include intervals at a higher intensity than the L4s you have been doing, the L5 intervals are not "ride hard until you're ready to fall off the bike" efforts. I think too many people make high-intensity efforts harder than necessary and consequently they don't look forward to the workouts.

I realize you're kidding, but there are actually entire threads devoted to discussing 30s intervals and they will indeed produce increases in VO2MAX and FT (if ridden at a higher power such as 175%MAP). As will lots of other interval protocols, each of which has its devotees. They are just not an efficient use of training time IMO. My main point was to remind you that, even though you are beginning to include intervals at a higher intensity than the L4s you have been doing, the L5 intervals are not "ride hard until you're ready to fall off the bike" efforts. I think too many people make high-intensity efforts harder than necessary and consequently they don't look forward to the workouts.

So true! Today was hard - bloody hard!! I think I have overtrained this week. I should have had yesterday off after Monday's effort.

Anyway, right from the start I realized 260W was going to be too hard, so dropped to 250W. Having said that, I'd done one & half minutes off the second interval before I realized I was doing 260W:)
Still, I managed to do the 4x5 @250W - just! After 10 mins @ 100 W started the 1x20 @ 210W - alas the tank was empty.:(

I've now got 2 complete days off before Sunday's ride and I shall relish them.
Next Monday is a day off, so we will see what happens on Tuesday to the 4x5　@ 260W.

Might even treat myself to a donut tomorrow.:D