Drug related Questions

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Hello -

Without wishing to open up a can of worms, I would like to ask a few questions:

I know there are a few people out there who ride some serious miles every year (10,000+). If this applies to you; do you believe that winning a tour is possible without the use of Performance Enchancing Drugs?

Secondly, if we *assume* that most of the 'great' cyclist used PEDs then why is it that some are sick now (I believe boardman, LeMond are examples that spring to mind) and others are fine and in good health (Eddy, for example).

I'm interested from a shear 'how is that possible view'. I've been exercising consistantly for over 13 years and riding 10,000 miles every year is somewhat challenging and I can't get close to the type of figures (wattage) you see these pros spit out. Frankly I wonder how they could do what they do just on good food, water and hard training not forgetting to mention plenty of rest.

Please take no offense, however, if you don't ride in the region of 10,000+ every year then I would prefer you don't answer this post.

Thank you.

Hello -

Without wishing to open up a can of worms, I would like to ask a few questions:

I know there are a few people out there who ride some serious miles every year (10,000+). If this applies to you; do you believe that winning a tour is possible without the use of Performance Enchancing Drugs?


yes. i'm sure some riders have won drug free.


Secondly, if we *assume* that most of the 'great' cyclist used PEDs then why is it that some are sick now (I believe boardman, LeMond are examples that spring to mind) and others are fine and in good health (Eddy, for example).


i don't think we should assume that. And Eddy isn't in great health -- didn't he have a whole load of issues last year?

It's generally thought that Boardman raced clean. Note i'm not casting aspersions on the others - merely stating what the pros at the time of Boardman thought.


I'm interested from a shear 'how is that possible view'. I've been exercising consistantly for over 13 years and riding 10,000 miles every year is somewhat challenging and I can't get close to the type of figures (wattage) you see these pros spit out. Frankly I wonder how they could do what they do just on good food, water and hard training not forgetting to mention plenty of rest.


hopefully, i can answer - i probably do ~ 20,000 km most years since '90.

The answer is you chose your parents badly, like the majority of us. Certain people have a natural talent for specific vocations, physiology, or personality traits. I know people who can play the guitar really well and even though they need to practice daily their natural level is much better than myself who has had lessons and (used to) practice daily. i sound cr@p. it's the same thing for sport.

Add in you could be training completely ineffectively, plus, can only manage ~10,000 miles per year and presumably have a job etc... there's no God given reason why you should excel at the pro level. Life is unfair. All you can hope to do is improve. only a few people will truly excel at whatever they do in life.

presumably you can get close to or exceed the pro's power figures (once they've been adjusted for mass), you presumably can't maintain them for as long as the pros can...

ric (i can ride at World Hour Record power -- but just not for an hour!)

Ric -

May I ask how many days per week you ride? Or should I ask how many rest days do you take every week?

Also, (roughly) how many calories do you put down on an average day?

in addition what powerband do you spend most of your training time in?

Cheers

First, I qualify to answer your post. For about 5 years in the 1970s (before many of today's drugs became available), I was a relatively serious amateur bike racer (luxury of being a grad student) and rode 350 miles/wk in-season (6 mos) plus 200 miles/wk off-season. I think that's close to 15K miles/yr. I have resumed training for racing and am now riding ~300 miles/wk ~15K miles/yr. Actually, I don't consider that to be very impressive mileage. Then and now, I think the really serious riders do closer to 500 miles/wk ~25K miles/yr.

Because I had the luxury of training every day with a 3-time (U.S.) Olympic road team member, I saw first-hand the difference in innate cycling ability. I rode side-by-side with this guy, but in the 2nd half of races I knew he was going to pull away and there was nothing I could do about it. His body has a different gear than mine did. Not raw speed, but just the ability to ramp it up to a very high output and sustain it for a very long time. He was the only guy in my state who could go off solo. If he took drugs, I sure never knew about it and I have no idea what they would have been at that time. And as good as he was, he couldn't hang with John Howard out of Texas when John decided to crank it up. So, maybe the pros get an extra edge from chemicals but I think they start off with a much higher powered engine than I was born with. And, I'm not even including the sprint specialists who were born with a different fast twitch/slow twitch muscle composition. I accept my position in life -- if I use my training time really intelligently and figure out how to get in a good aero position, maybe I can be "competitive."

Ric -

May I ask how many days per week you ride? Or should I ask how many rest days do you take every week?

Also, (roughly) how many calories do you put down on an average day?

in addition what powerband do you spend most of your training time in?

Cheers

i have one or two rest days per week, depending on my schedule. ocassional weeks i have no rest days

i don't what you mean by "how many calories do you put down"? Does that mean how many do i eat a day, or how many i expend?

According to my power meter i spend most of my rides at 0 W. I coast downhill, as the road are too narrow/steep to ride at any decent effort without the risk of crashing. my average power for my rides is generally in zone 2 and 3 (my schema). and virtually every outdoor ride has efforts in zone 5 or 6 (due to the severity of the hills here).

ric

Sorry Ric -

To clarify; how many calories do you eat roughly on a given day - I know it may vary if you are out on a 4 hour ride one day. On average.

also, is there any new information about how power meters can help with avoiding overtraining? difficult topic.

Sorry Ric -

To clarify; how many calories do you eat roughly on a given day - I know it may vary if you are out on a 4 hour ride one day. On average.


i'd briefly estimate 3000 - 3500 Kcal/day. my mass is ~ 69 kg


also, is there any new information about how power meters can help with avoiding overtraining? difficult topic.

no there isn't, other than if you're overtrained, by definition you won't be able to produce your normal power output.

ric

In a word, NO.

Since 1903 as far as I am aware the Tour de France has never been won without medicines, substances, and trauma care.

21 continuous racing days is not a healthy activity. More rest, more humanity is what is needed, but it is a commercial enterprise---always was, always will be.

Former Festina rider, Luc LeBlanc once said it would be inhumane to race the Tour without drugs.

And in the end only the money counts, not dead or sick champions.

Pantani, Jimenez, Zanetti, Kneteman et al...

Genetics do play a big role---but not to the extent that a strong & competitive man wouldn't take full advantage of daily rejuvenations.

Flyer, you're slipping. It took you almost 12 hours to post a response in a doping thread. But I'm glad to see that you haven't deviated from the one-sentence paragraphs.

Pantani, Jimenez, Zanetti, Kneteman et al...

Explain to me how PED's caused the deaths of these four men to me. In Pantani's case was it not cocaine that he overdosed on ??? And explain to me how the cocaine is a PED and not a recreational drug.
And Knetemann ????? Was it ever proven that PED's caused his problem??
And in your explanations, deal with facts and not "suggestions". And in Knetemann's case you need to be very precise in your accusations.

And since you are so convinced that cycling at the pro level is so dirty, and has been in your lifetime, why do you follow the sport ????????