The tragedy of this forum

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

I think that it is a sad state of affairs when a new forum has to be created to discuss doping.

What is happening to our sport?

I remember back in the day going out with my training partner on a sunday and getting lost for 8 hours on back roads, me dragging his tired a$$ up hills all day and then pushing 50mph on the downhills. I remember long rides with my college team in those nasty downpours that I've only seen in NC. I remember how racing was about pushing yourself to the limit and suffering for your team, not winning at any cost. That was hardcore.

A sad state of affairs indeed...

This is a century-long thing. I therefore see no reason not to discuss it.

Where's that great quote about the 2 Frenchmen (brothers?) putting coke in their eyes, and dancing around in their rooms all night?

I prefer my Cat 3/4 races on Wednesday nights; the worst thing I've seen is a *CAN* of coke...

It's also about who cares and who doesn't..........It's a problem oke......but constantly talking about it doesn't change a thing. In light of recent doping problems cycling does have a problem, but so does every sport! I rather talk about racing then endless debating who is or who isn't doping (then again everyone is doping in youre view). Do you have an opinion about the giro and the racing side of it or are you constantly thinking what are they on? or how can this be possible?

Btw a doping forum is nothing new; other cycling forums have it to......now you don't get doping threads at a road racing forum were you think there is only going to be talked about racing!
Life is life. Reality, fantasy, highs and lows. No tragedy in writing about 'how the sausages are made'. Not at all. Such disclosures are helpful even to those still in denial, so at least to confirm their shinking fraternity.


It's life.

It's the human condition.

Cycling racers have been doping for over 140 years! The drugs are just more effective today. In another 100 years---the TDF will carry a speed average of 60 kph+. The only thing that 'happened' was journalists finally began writing about this problem on a weekly basis. It's not hard to do as there is daily activity.

If you think doping in procycling is a fraud---or a disgrace--or sad---just think of Wall Street, The New York Stock Exchange, Juiced accounting for Worldcom, Tyco, Enron, Healthsouth, etc.....

Accounting on Steroids!!!!!

Nobody died(?)--but billions of Dollars were funneled to insiders who will NEVER refund the money.

Just as Johan Museeuw, Richard Virenque, Alex Zulle, Tyler Hamilton or David Millar will NEVER refund any of their juiced driven prize money. Not ever.

The mantra reads: 'Steal all you can--until somebody puts you in a can', as it were.

As long as sport is commercially exploited for corporate advertising---the athletes, the coaches, the managers, the drug researchers, the doctors, will cheat in every way conceivable. Crime pays!

Pro Cycling is not a Corinthean sport---rather it is a greedy, aggressive business! Lying & denial keep it fully funded as an industry.

And what about the doping our cattle, our dairy cows, our chickens, lambs, race horses and dogs? Is that not a subject worth debating too? I mean, non-vegans do eat that suff and those synthetic hormones pass down the food chain too. Is that healthy? Is that fact well disclosed to consumers?

I think that it is a sad state of affairs when a new forum has to be created to discuss doping.
If it helps to stop other sections getting hijacked by this topic, then its worth having ;)

Still my guestion: Do you have an opinion about the giro and the racing side of it or are you constantly thinking what are they on? or how can this be possible?


Much like the Holocaust, ignorance is blissful and deadly too.

On the contrry not discussing the issue is akin to a tacit approval for doping in all sport. Especially cycling.

Doping is not a 'little or isolated toxic problem'. It is widespread and affects all levels of elite cycling. The top athletes, men and women, as well as the domestiques and workers.

Hero worship of cycling feats---otherwise impossible to achieve without fancy corrupted doctors, scientists, pharmaceutical firms, and corrupt corporate advertisers, is a excellent way to show you apathy.

Those who care, speak out. Those that prefer ignorance and commercial bliss, (staus quo) want whistleblowers discredited and doping formums to be censured.

Silence is a greater sin than is the doping.

The same thoughts I had when Marion Jones and her/boyfriend, unmarried father of her child, Tim Montgomery both got smoked two weeks ago at a California track meet.

I wondered how their doping program were altered.

Doping affected them dramatically.
In other words you don't actually like the sport of cycling or, based on your posts, any sport, you just love the doping.

I love the lying, cheating and denial of the doping. It illustrates my points so well. It validates that widespread doping practices are still very much in play. Last week, it was House boy Luca De Angeli who went EPO positive and was exposed. Who will be next?

And the dopes, such as House who represent the doping problem for for what it is:

Clinical denial and commercial fraud dressed up as sporting fancy.

House is a loser, but our new forum is a WINNER!





[QUOTE=House]In other words you don't actually like the sport of cycling or, based on your posts, any sport, you just love the doping.
Ready to prve you aren't a coward yet? Those challenges still stand. You live for doping, you love doping you embrace it. You take joy in it. That's why your life revolves around it. I'd say the loser is the guy who spends all of his time trying to convince people that the sport they love is 100% using lies, half-truths and tenuous at best connections.

Step up coward.

I think that it is a sad state of affairs when a new forum has to be created to discuss doping.

What is happening to our sport?

I remember back in the day going out with my training partner on a sunday and getting lost for 8 hours on back roads, me dragging his tired a$$ up hills all day and then pushing 50mph on the downhills. I remember long rides with my college team in those nasty downpours that I've only seen in NC. I remember how racing was about pushing yourself to the limit and suffering for your team, not winning at any cost. That was hardcore.

A sad state of affairs indeed...
After reading a bunch of posts in this forum and others about doping, and seeing all the reports in the news about doping, etc. I am also in agreement with Flyer - it does seem to be a sad state of affairs.

But I have to wonder, how much of this information that people post should we really buy into? I'm not saying that doping isn't happening, but there's talk of nearly EVERY pro in the peloton taking something to enhance performance. However, with all the cover ups going on and all the other "inside info" that none of us could possibly be aware of, how reliable is the information posted in forums? I'm sure that there is a ton of speculation from amateur riders and posters in here - some of it more believable than other info.

I'd love to hear from a team doctor, coach, or someone who actually participated hands-on with the doping, but that's probably never going to happen (except for the few occurances were athletes write articles about doping after they get out of it). Just someone who has been right there injecting a cyclist...I would be more awestruck by reading that post as opposed to someone who has only read a lot of articles and puts together his/her best guess.

I'm probably still being nieve about this and hoping that not everyone in the pro peloton is doping, hoping that it's just a select few riders, but it's probably not, and I'm probably very very wrong. lol. :p

I think that it is a sad state of affairs when a new forum has to be created to discuss doping.

What is happening to our sport?

I remember back in the day going out with my training partner on a sunday and getting lost for 8 hours on back roads, me dragging his tired a$$ up hills all day and then pushing 50mph on the downhills. I remember long rides with my college team in those nasty downpours that I've only seen in NC. I remember how racing was about pushing yourself to the limit and suffering for your team, not winning at any cost. That was hardcore.

A sad state of affairs indeed...

It give me something to avoid.Like a pothole inthe road.

excuse me, but if we're going to talk about doping let's talk about the widespread doping of the american public (via a steady diet of fox news, fast food, pain killers, and anti-depressants).
i think what is happening in the sport of cycling reflects to a large extent what is valued in society at large.
would i dope if i were a professional cyclist? well, if it meant keeping up with the jones', and everyone else was doing it, i probably would.
cycling is a culture like any other and those in it try to fit in and do what they need to do to survive.
what if ibubrofen were considered dope--how many if us would be considered addicts?



After reading a bunch of posts in this forum and others about doping, and seeing all the reports in the news about doping, etc. I am also in agreement with Flyer - it does seem to be a sad state of affairs.

But I have to wonder, how much of this information that people post should we really buy into? I'm not saying that doping isn't happening, but there's talk of nearly EVERY pro in the peloton taking something to enhance performance. However, with all the cover ups going on and all the other "inside info" that none of us could possibly be aware of, how reliable is the information posted in forums? I'm sure that there is a ton of speculation from amateur riders and posters in here - some of it more believable than other info.

I'd love to hear from a team doctor, coach, or someone who actually participated hands-on with the doping, but that's probably never going to happen (except for the few occurances were athletes write articles about doping after they get out of it). Just someone who has been right there injecting a cyclist...I would be more awestruck by reading that post as opposed to someone who has only read a lot of articles and puts together his/her best guess.

I'm probably still being nieve about this and hoping that not everyone in the pro peloton is doping, hoping that it's just a select few riders, but it's probably not, and I'm probably very very wrong. lol. :p

Wow, all great comments from you guys. It's just hard to believe that so much doping is going on, but I can definitely see how it can stem from the way Americans lead their lives in general - everything quick and easy. I guess we shouldn't expect pros (just because they are professionals) to be any different. It's always nice to have some top athletes to look up to, but when they're just as bad as everyone else, seems to take that credibility away.

Interesting point about how teams are built around dopers. Never thought about it like that before.

When it comes to international competition Amercia certainly has advantages with Amgen, Genentech, Chiron and hundreds of lesser bio-technology firms researching and creating new and potent drugs. Pfizer, Merck, Johnson & Johnson, Bayer, Bristol-Meyers Squib help distribute drugs once they clear FDA approval.

Amgen, Inc. of Thousand Oaks California has effected cycling more than any other drug company. Their products for anemia and chemo therapy recovery have become a standard for training and conditioning for stage racing. Amgen products such as EPOGEN,
NEUPOGEN G-CSF, ENBREL, INFERGEN, ENBREL, SENSIPAR (cinacalcet HCI) and finally Johan Museeuw's favorite, AraNESP (darbepoetin alfa)---bascially, Epogen plus carbohydrates--these all have theapuetic uses in endurance athletes.Just because some of the large pharmaceutical companies reside in America does not mean that America has more advantage than any other country.

Folks, I have admitted to being deeply involved in using as a former competitor and I have admitted to distributing. I know this subject very well in many aspects, but I can honestly state with confidence that there is no advantage of buying on the street in America than any where else in the world.

Most of what I purchased back in the day came from Mexico and South Africa and was smuggled into the states. Yes a small amount was "stolen" or coaxed from unsuspecting veterinarians or made in a home lab from veterinarian supplies, but it wasn't like the large pharmacutical companies are kicking boxes off the truck at the nearest sports facility so that we can go out and break records.

For many years I looked for doctors to try to help me get legitimate supplies and I never once had one of them entertain the thought. Yes, there are some that will, but the majority will not risk their medical practice and face potential legal risk so that some stupid athlete like myself can win a trophy. Again there are doctors that will do this, but they are not as abundant in American as one might think. Check deeper into the subject and know that the East German scientist before the fall of the wall were deep deep into study and when the wall fell they dispersed to other countries in Europe and Asia to continue their experiments for self gain in wealth. We have Balco Labs scandal, but they were sought out by our government and will be prosecuted.

I could not let that statement slip by without making my own rebuttle.