pealling push up push down

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While you say it is a small percentage, what do you do with the PC's that are returned after, let's say, eight months of continuous use during trial period ?We use them per our needs. If someone asks and we have a used pair lying around we will usually sell it at a discounted price, usually $600 for the basics, what they usually go for on Ebay, except this will have a warranty.

Frank

Easy answer here, do you hurt somewhere during 2hours and more?

Well, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Two recent studies looking at PowerCranks would be some direct evidence. The main thing that PowerCranks does is change the form of the cyclist to something that most would describe as being more circular. The Luttrell study demonstrated a 10% improvement in cycling efficiency in trained cyclists in 6 weeks and the Dixon study demonstrated an 11% improvement in cycling power, again in 6 weeks and again in trained cyclists (plus they also reported an increase of VO2max of 15% in the same time). Unless one is a rank beginner is it unlikely one can see those kinds of improvements from fitness changes or anything else in that kind of time period. Check out the recent thread entitled "poor man's PowerCranks" for a further discussion of this so it doesn't have to be repeated here.
I just went through the first 10 of 16 pages and only found that the studies you quote are, at best, "dubious".

Let's say a person applies max force to his pedals in the first few pedalling strokes during attempted max acceleration from a seated 'standing start', what percentage of this max force will he be applying to the pedals when he is still accelerating at a cadence of 80, 90 and 100 ? Has anyone got the answer.

Let's say a person applies max force to his pedals in the first few pedalling strokes during attempted max acceleration from a seated 'standing start', what percentage of this max force will he be applying to the pedals when he is still accelerating at a cadence of 80, 90 and 100 ? Has anyone got the answer.It will be quite small. It will be reduced by two things, some of the muscle force is diverted from the pedals by the need to accelerate the leg up to the speed of the pedals and the fact that by the time one is up to 80-90-100 rpm at max effort there will start to be some accumulated lactic acid interfering with muscle function as max effort can only be sustained for a few seconds.

It should be easily calculatable if you know the acceleration curve and the value of the terms that determine the resistive forces at speed (see analyticcycling.com).

FYI

http://triorganic.com/ccc.aspx?g=posts&t=5
I couldn't help but notice that the guy on the link, Josh Horowitz, who feels that these cranks have made a huge difference to his power output also happend to mention that he has been training far harder than previously. Presumably if anyone ups their training to 5/6/7/8 hours (not LSD rides) they will get fitter and presumably stronger regardless of the cranks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sitting on the fence ref these devices but I must confess I don't see that Josh Horowitz's experiences prove much for them.

It will be quite small. It will be reduced by two things, some of the muscle force is diverted from the pedals by the need to accelerate the leg up to the speed of the pedals and the fact that by the time one is up to 80-90-100 rpm at max effort there will start to be some accumulated lactic acid interfering with muscle function as max effort can only be sustained for a few seconds.

It should be easily calculatable if you know the acceleration curve and the value of the terms that determine the resistive forces at speed (see analyticcycling.com).


I thought someone might have the answers, I hate the formula side of pedalling, I prefer the action. It appears that as cadence increases, the earlier you can start your main power stroke, that is when you are starting max power application to the pedal well before the dead spot. Another action experiment in which you can be of assistance with the help of some of your seasoned powercrankers. Wearing reasonably heavy shoes while standing between the backs of two chairs and using them for support, how many times can a powercranker repetitively raise his knee until thigh is parallel to floor or to as high as it will go and then lower to almost floor level.

Another action experiment in which you can be of assistance with the help of some of your seasoned powercrankers. Wearing reasonably heavy shoes while standing between the backs of two chairs and using them for support, how many times can a powercranker repetitively raise his knee until thigh is parallel to floor or to as high as it will go and then lower to almost floor level.The answer would depend upon how fast you want them to do it but I would guess for the parallel to the floor request the answer would be thousands. That is essentially all we are asking them to do when they ride their bike with PC's. For the "as high as it can go" request, substantially fewer.

The answer would depend upon how fast you want them to do it but I would guess for the parallel to the floor request the answer would be thousands. That is essentially all we are asking them to do when they ride their bike with PC's. For the "as high as it can go" request, substantially fewer.


I believe the "as high as it can go " method is more in keeping with unweighting close to the dead spot area when you are in that low aerodynamic position in time trials. Have you seen or do you know anyone who has used the Easycrank, it's a crank that changes length throughout the revolution with the longest length at 3 o'c and shorthest at 9 o'c. It promises a power increase of 10 %.

I believe the "as high as it can go " method is more in keeping with unweighting close to the dead spot area when you are in that low aerodynamic position in time trials. Have you seen or do you know anyone who has used the Easycrank, it's a crank that changes length throughout the revolution with the longest length at 3 o'c and shorthest at 9 o'c. It promises a power increase of 10 %.I agree with your assessment of how high one must lift when in the extreme aero position. It is why many loose so much power in this position although most do not realize it.

I know nothing of the easy crank.

Think of pedaling in a circle. I pretend that my feet are in clips even though they are not. Makes it easier for me. Maybe this answer isn't scientific enough. But it seemed like everyone was getting super technical. Good luck!

Think of pedaling in a circle.

Why ?

Is it possible to get crank equipment that can independently measure torque on each crank throughout it revolution and how is it done and recorded ?

Is it possible to get crank equipment that can independently measure torque on each crank throughout it revolution and how is it done and recorded ?I have seen one european ergometer that did that, forget the name, and it cost about $25k as I remember. It had strain gauges in each crank arm as I remember. I got on it and blew the rep away as I demonstrated it was possible to ride with positive torque around the entire circle.

That is the only such device that I am aware of that does this.

I have seen one european ergometer that did that, forget the name, and it cost about $25k as I remember. It had strain gauges in each crank arm as I remember. I got on it and blew the rep away as I demonstrated it was possible to ride with positive torque around the entire circle.

That is the only such device that I am aware of that does this.



That rules out buying one for private use. For any circular pedaller it is not difficult to apply some positive force at all times to the crank around 360 degrees, the difficulty arises as he attempts to increase his cadence and the force of power application especially in the dead spot areas. Again it's back to the important question, which is more effective, the application of some force even if only very slight with each leg around the 360 degrees or having the ability to apply constant max force with each leg over 180 degrees.

Why ?

I haven't logged on for a bit, found this thread and tried to read the whole thing, it kind of goes on and on so I just had to move on.

… thing is a number of the worlds top cyclist at the mo have a background in mountain biking. With a full suspension mountain bike if you don't have a smooth pedal action the bike just bonces up and down in the suspension.

Something to think about ric

With a full suspension mountain bike if you don't have a smooth pedal action the bike just bonces up and down in the suspension.

Something to think about ric

That's only to be expected and that explains how the rider who borrowed a pair of Anquetil's wheels wrecked them, it was the wheels that had to do the bouncing. But you don't have to pedal in circles to be smooth, that reduces your ability to apply power. There is no smoother way of pedalling than being able to apply constant max chain drive power to the chainwheel and you will never do that with circular pedalling.

That's only to be expected and that explains how the rider who borrowed a pair of Anquetil's wheels wrecked them, it was the wheels that had to do the bouncing. But you don't have to pedal in circles to be smooth, that reduces your ability to apply power. There is no smoother way of pedalling than being able to apply constant max chain drive power to the chainwheel and you will never do that with circular pedalling.

WOW ! I don't want to be rude, but that is the most confused thing I have ever read. I don't think any rider has any other option other then to pedal in circles ??? Thinking were is the best time to apply additional force to a pedal stroke is something else and really symptomatic of an under-trained cyclist. That said, I understand what ric is on about. However if when you begin to start cycling at early age for example, and you are encourage to apply a complex collection of forces to a pedal/crank not just stomp down evidence seems to suggest you become a better cyclist ?

WOW ! I don't want to be rude, but that is the most confused thing I have ever read.
Confused? Likely. Consistent? Absolutely - read Noel's entries in this thread... :rolleyes:

Dave

That rules out buying one for private use. For any circular pedaller it is not difficult to apply some positive force at all times to the crank around 360 degrees, the difficulty arises as he attempts to increase his cadence and the force of power application especially in the dead spot areas. Again it's back to the important question, which is more effective, the application of some force even if only very slight with each leg around the 360 degrees or having the ability to apply constant max force with each leg over 180 degrees.


Has anyone suggested that it is possible to apply constant max force with each leg over 180 degrees ?