Calling Out Flyer

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

I am calling you out. The past few days I have been active on this forum and I have found out a few things that I am calling you out on:

1) Step up and answer questions directly. Every thread I have been in you nimbly avoid any direct answers. Happens in other threads I found. Step up and be a man.

2) You make all these claims of people you "talked to" or "know" yet somehow they never have names, just things like "Italian U-23 Champion" or "doctor." Anybody as obsessed as you can just make these things up, give us something that we can believe.

I am going to bet that you won't do either of these things and will either hide from this thread or somehow turn it into you Lance/Cycling Hate crusade.

Wow, what do you know he avoids answering any questions and turns it into his cycling hate crusade. Thanks for proving what type of person you really are...for anyone who doesn't already know.

Wow, what do you know he avoids answering any questions and turns it into his cycling hate crusade. Thanks for proving what type of person you really are...for anyone who doesn't already know.
House, why do you equate Flyer's desire to see a clean sport with hating the sport? That's Armstrong's position isn't it? Anyone who says there is doping in the sport hates the sport and wants to destroy it? Is it not possible that anyone who hates doping in the sport wants to see a clean sport and is angered and embittered by the seeming impossibility of that happening and by the waste of life? I would love the sport to be clean but I don't believe the way to do that is to vilify the riders who have the guts to be whistleblowers. I would be interested to know what your exact position on doping in the peloton is?

It is both cool and honorable to call people out anonymously on internet messsage boards. No, really. Kewl.

NW

House, why do you equate Flyer's desire to see a clean sport with hating the sport? That's Armstrong's position isn't it? Anyone who says there is doping in the sport hates the sport and wants to destroy it? Is it not possible that anyone who hates doping in the sport wants to see a clean sport and is angered and embittered by the seeming impossibility of that happening and by the waste of life? I would love the sport to be clean but I don't believe the way to do that is to vilify the riders who have the guts to be whistleblowers. I would be interested to know what your exact position on doping in the peloton is?
I am totally against doping and I think in proven/realistic cases (i.e. Garzelli and probenecid at the Giro was an obvious crock) a lifetime ban is warrented. My problem with Flyer is not is dislike of doping, it's his burning need to turn everything into his crusade, his ignoring anything that doesn't fit his agenda, his lack of balls to answer any questions directly. There is a difference in saying you hate doping and apparently trying to convince everyone on a message board that your beloved sport is actually just a fraud by shoving it (well part of it that fits your agenda) down their throats. Flyer is the message board person who baffles me: Spending so much time posting messages intended to turn people against the sport that the board is about.

Spending so much time posting messages intended to turn people against the sport that the board is about. This is your interpretation though and I don't think it is correct. There is a clear distinction between professional cycling (with all its sins) and the sport of cycling (with all its virtues). I really don't want to speak for Flyer but the impression I get is that is the former that he is criticizing not the latter... And in any case professional cycling is no different to any other professional sport. Professionalism = doping...

I think it would be best though if you guys kept the Lance/doping debate confined to a couple of topics. It seems that whichever topic I open in this section I bump on the same conversation, Lance this and Lance that... It is becoming tiring and I 'm sure others feel the same...

Made some big progress with house. Went from doping disclosure acceptance from blanket denial, to the age old, "yes I admit doping exists, BUT NOT WITH MY FAVORITE RIDER!"

It's baby step--but we'll get there soon enough.

Next it will be, everyone dopes, except LA.

You'll see. More public doping & fraud bombshells will occur in 2005!
You didn't do shit, you like to imagine what people are saying. I have never defended doping, but I also don't rant about it and claim everyone is a doper and a fraud while lying about and leaving out parts of the "proof" You are a tiny little man who is too much of a coward to step up and take my challenge. Obviously you have some severe emotional issues that force to spend all of your life on a hate crusade against something you claim to love.

Where is the list of people who have won races and not been busted? Oh wait, that doesn't fit your agenda of hate.


Still waiting for you to step up and take the challenge.

I don't agree with a lot of Fyler's Evidence, but man, as today's news about Hondo proves, Flyer has a point. As I've said before, if Hondo is positive, he should be banned for life. As should every single other cheater, amature or pro, no matter what his age.

Dope is cheating and it is embarrassing to our sport and though Flyer's dope posts can get annoying we all need to read them because the history of cycling really can't be separated from dope. Cycling is a noble sport -- but it's also a corrupt one and has been for decades.

I don't agree with a lot of Fyler's Evidence, but man, as today's news about Hondo proves, Flyer has a point. As I've said before, if Hondo is positive, he should be banned for life. As should every single other cheater, amature or pro, no matter what his age.

Dope is cheating and it is embarrassing to our sport and though Flyer's dope posts can get annoying we all need to read them because the history of cycling really can't be separated from dope. Cycling is a noble sport -- but it's also a corrupt one and has been for decades.
We don't need to read his posts because they are merely regurgitation of things we all know already, often times filled with lies, half-truths and usually editing out anything that could possibly make them wrong. He is obsessed with the notion of somehow making everyone on this board hate procycling as much as he obviously does. As someone else said, he's like those ultra religious people who feel everyone should convert to their religion and insist on trying to sell it over and over and over. All it does is make people hate you.

You see what i am talking about, just further proof of everything I have said about Flyer.

I'll make a deal with you. You come up with concrete, admissable in a court proof that all of the peloton dopes and i will leave here forever, if not you do. I'll give you 24 hours. I'm betting you won't do it, just like you won't step up and take the challenge. You are flailing little man.

Your foundation isn't cracked, you are.

You will welch on that deal like all your others.

You will not accept even a 'tearful coffession'.

I gave you 53 names of dopers--including many TDF champions. According to you, a TDF can be won w/o drugs.

If you don't grasp the issue. DENIAL is the standard response of a guilty athlete. None of the name I wrote admitted to doping while employed---only in retirement or under police duress, as in the case of Millar.

Lance's Doctor was convicted---so I guess that means Lance's performance is too---as Michele Ferrari was his 'performance consultant' That is Lance's personal description of Dr. EPO or HBOC!

btw: Tyler Hamilton whom you presume a doper---has not had his USADA appeal ruling yet. He may still be suiting up for the July 2005 Tour. Perez or no Perez.
a) What "others"

b) should a take a page from your book and ask what a "coffession" is?

c) once again you can't step up, all you can do is keep squawking the same edited bits of information that fit your hate agenda.

d) are you going to keep either lying or simply not having any clue who has said what?

All TDF winners are exempt from any 'positive test results being published'. That's a fact too.

Da!



Again we ask where is your proof of this :mad:

this is an awesome pissing contest.

House, I'm not sure whether to commend you or pity you for trying. I spent months trying to suggest reason and logic to Flyer. It finally ended with him being the only one, on any of the 3 or 4 boards I frequent making it to my ignore list. He's still the only one. Do I hate Flyer? Hell, no! I don't even know him. But I do tend to hate what he stands for and that's the idea that anyone can be convicted or should be considered guilty based on suspicion.

Certainly there is reason to suspect Lance. There's reason to suspect every rider in pro-cycling. But I don't feel that because some dope and some have been caught that it's proper, correct or fair to automatically assume everyone is guilty or to assume anyone who hasn't been proven guilty to be guilty. They used to do that kind of thing where Kings ruled over the population. They still do in many dictatorial systems. I don't think we need to digress into that kind of system. Apparently Flyer wouldn't have a problem with it -- as long as he avoided being accused himself.

Assuming that because there is a lot of doping in cycling, that it automatically means that anyone winning and anyone riding is guilty makes about as much sense as the observation that sometimes it's the person pointing the finger who is only trying to remove suspicion from himself, and therefore, anyone displaying suspicion of another, must himself be guilty.

What Flyer has demonstrated here goes beyond a hatred of cheating and doping in particular. I don't think I've read a single post yet which supports doping and I sincerely hope I never do. What Flyer is illustrating is obssession along with what appears to be some kind of personal vendetta against Armstrong.

Is Armstrong doping? I don't know. I tend to feel he isn't. He's too high-profile to be able to blend in and stay undetected. But, there are techniques that make detection very difficult or completely impossible. So the possibility is always there. If he is, then he has more balls than brains because he could easily bow out now and hold a record that is sure to be maintained for at least 5-years, more likely decades. But instead, he's announced that he's going for seven.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and these forums are wonderful as a tool for expressing, sharing and comparing those opinions. But when people convince themselves that their opinions, unsubstantiated by proof, are equivalent to fact, then I don't have a problem with someone attempting to point out their error. And when that fails, perhaps it's not a terrible thing to call them out and slap them down.

Great post Beastt ....... I would like to meet this Flyer ... I was sitting thinking why would a guy spend so much time on a cycling forum attempting to point out his views on why Lance is a doper ????? Doe he not have a job ??? Does he not have a lover ???? Does he have a life with real people , with real names????? Then it became obvious to me .... . In a minute I will post his identity.....

But , Some questions are raised with some of his answers..... He claims to love professional cycling , but he claims it is sport that is doped 100% , and has been for many years ...... So what he fell in love with is doped cycling ...... Using his reasoning , how does he know that he will like a drug free product????

Why is Lance at the basis of his attacks and not the other "Positive" riders of the peleton ???? Think about this guys ..... What inspires a guy to dislike another guy as much as Flyer seems to hate Lance ...... A female ... As guys we always hate the guy who steals our woman ......It is a basic human emotion .... Right ??????? I was thinking that maybe Flyer hates Lance because Lance stole his woman ...... Maybe Flyer thought he had a chance to be with Cheryl ...... Then along came Lance ...........

But , thinking that thru , it did not make as much sense as who I think Flyer is ......
He is actually a "she" ..... Flyer is Jan Ulrich's mother ..... This explains a lot of things ..... She would have a maternal hatred towards Lance ...... If it wasn't for Lance , her boy would have won in July and he could be home more often eating her pastries ...... MMMMMM .....Pastries......

More on this later ...... I am supposed to be writing a report for a meeting tomorrow .......

Great post Beastt ....... I would like to meet this Flyer ... I was sitting thinking why would a guy spend so much time on a cycling forum attempting to point out his views on why Lance is a doper ????? Doe he not have a job ??? Does he not have a lover ???? Does he have a life with real people , with real names????? Then it became obvious to me .... . In a minute I will post his identity.....

But , Some questions are raised with some of his answers..... He claims to love professional cycling , but he claims it is sport that is doped 100% , and has been for many years ...... So what he fell in love with is doped cycling ...... Using his reasoning , how does he know that he will like a drug free product????

Why is Lance at the basis of his attacks and not the other "Positive" riders of the peleton ???? Think about this guys ..... What inspires a guy to dislike another guy as much as Flyer seems to hate Lance ...... A female ... As guys we always hate the guy who steals our woman ......It is a basic human emotion .... Right ??????? I was thinking that maybe Flyer hates Lance because Lance stole his woman ...... Maybe Flyer thought he had a chance to be with Cheryl ...... Then along came Lance ...........

But , thinking that thru , it did not make as much sense as who I think Flyer is ......
He is actually a "she" ..... Flyer is Jan Ulrich's mother ..... This explains a lot of things ..... She would have a maternal hatred towards Lance ...... If it wasn't for Lance , her boy would have won in July and he could be home more often eating her pastries ...... MMMMMM .....Pastries......

More on this later ...... I am supposed to be writing a report for a meeting tomorrow .......

Hell with tomorrows report ........ I just want to add that I have alleged inside sources for all these allegations of my alleged discovery of who Flyer "may" be ......... I will not name names for fear of losing my contacts...... I have the alleged trust of all these alleged people who let me know what I allegedly know , and I would not revel my alleged sources....... I am not even going to allege it , de-allege it , or re-allege it ..........

Wolfix, you are dead on, I was talking to a Euro pro who's wife I am sleeping with and he told me "Mt best friend's, sister's, boyfriend's, brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who say Jan's mother logging on as Flyer...I guess it's pretty serious!"