Weatherproof Cabling?

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I was about to purchase a set of Avid Flak Jacket gear cables for GBP20
inc postage from www.ukbikestore.co.uk when I see I can get the Flak
Jacket brake cables new for GBP10, or thereabouts, on eBay and CRC do
the brake cables for GBP12. I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying
around so is this a good opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit
provided in the gear and brake cable sets completely different?

Also, has anyone any experience of the Transfil Gear Cable Waterproof
Kit? I was looking to mate this with Shimano SP40 outer gear casing
available for GBP1.95/Metre at ukbikestore, again, for brakes as well.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

What other snazzy cable outer is available by length? I'm quite prepared
to make up a full set of weatherproof cabling piecemeal using the
Transfil kit if appropriate. Any help is gratefully appreciated.


Cheers, and happy new year!

--
Callaghan

"Callaghan" <totally_fake@mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95D18B2739E6Assfusion71@216.196.109.145...
>I was about to purchase a set of Avid Flak Jacket gear cables for GBP20
> inc postage from www.ukbikestore.co.uk when I see I can get the Flak
> Jacket brake cables new for GBP10, or thereabouts, on eBay and CRC do
> the brake cables for GBP12. I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying
> around so is this a good opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit
> provided in the gear and brake cable sets completely different?

DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap gear
cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is different.
Doing the former is likely to mean your gears won't change/index properly
and doing the latter would be positively dangerous.

Rich

Callaghan wrote:
> I was about to purchase a set of Avid Flak Jacket gear cables for GBP20
> inc postage from www.ukbikestore.co.uk when I see I can get the Flak
> Jacket brake cables new for GBP10, or thereabouts, on eBay and CRC do
> the brake cables for GBP12. I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying
> around so is this a good opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit
> provided in the gear and brake cable sets completely different?

Brake cable is thicker and has a different nipple design. You can't
interchange the two for both safety and practical reasons.

Richard Goodman wrote:

> DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap
> gear cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is
> different. Doing the former is likely to mean your gears won't
> change/index properly and doing the latter would be positively
> dangerous.

Agreed. Coiled cables are for brakes; cables with linear strands are for
gears.

How much "weather" gets in cables anyway, and does it matter much with
lined and stainless stuff?

~PB

Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:41d6bfea.0@entanet:
> Callaghan wrote:
>> I was about to purchase a set of Avid Flak Jacket gear cables for
>> GBP20 inc postage from www.ukbikestore.co.uk when I see I can get the
>> Flak Jacket brake cables new for GBP10, or thereabouts, on eBay and
>> CRC do the brake cables for GBP12. I have a few spare PTFE gear
>> inners lying around so is this a good opportunity to save a few bob
>> or is the kit provided in the gear and brake cable sets completely
>> different?
>
> Brake cable is thicker and has a different nipple design. You can't
> interchange the two for both safety and practical reasons.

It's only the outer casing I'm interested in the difference between. I
haven't made myself very clear have I.

I have some PTFE gear inners *already*, I was hoping that I could
purchase an Avid Flak Jacket brake cable set for 10-12 quid and use the
*gear inners* I already have with the Flak Jacket *brake outers* along
with the red piping and seals that come with them too. If you see the
original post this could save me 8+ quid.


--
Callaghan

"Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
> "Callaghan" <totally_fake@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying around so is this a good
>> opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit provided in the gear and
>> brake cable sets completely different?
>
> DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap
> gear cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is
> different.

Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic sheath
running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?

If so, why?

I'd like to build a set of weatherproof cables as cheap as possible. The
Transfil Waterproof kit is available on Wiggle for GBP2.50. The kit comes
with a length of plastic sheath that I assume goes between cable inner and
outer, if this is the case then why would it matter if the outer was for
gears or brakes?


PS. I'm aware that the sheath does not function in the same way between
cable inner and outer for the Avid Flak Jacket system.

--
Callaghan

Callaghan composed the following ...
> Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:41d6bfea.0@entanet:
>> Callaghan wrote:
>>> I was about to purchase a set of Avid Flak Jacket gear cables for
>>> GBP20 inc postage from www.ukbikestore.co.uk when I see I can get the
>>> Flak Jacket brake cables new for GBP10, or thereabouts, on eBay and
>>> CRC do the brake cables for GBP12. I have a few spare PTFE gear
>>> inners lying around so is this a good opportunity to save a few bob
>>> or is the kit provided in the gear and brake cable sets completely
>>> different?
>>
>> Brake cable is thicker and has a different nipple design. You can't
>> interchange the two for both safety and practical reasons.
>
> It's only the outer casing I'm interested in the difference between. I
> haven't made myself very clear have I.
>
> I have some PTFE gear inners *already*, I was hoping that I could
> purchase an Avid Flak Jacket brake cable set for 10-12 quid and use the
> *gear inners* I already have with the Flak Jacket *brake outers* along
> with the red piping and seals that come with them too. If you see the
> original post this could save me 8+ quid.

Brake and gear inner and outer cables are different thicknesses, and have
different nipples. They are not interchangeable, other than to possibly use
gear inner as an emergency 'get-u-home' fix in a dire emergency, maybe,
perhaps if possibly both brake cable inners snap, and you have no other
means of braking ... ;)

The Outers are also constructed in a different manner and it's doubtful if a
brake outer would actually work properly as a gear outer cable.

No, it's NOT a way of saving a few quid ... it IS a way of creating
shit-loads of problems in the gear-changing department though .. ;)

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... ;)
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Callaghan composed the following ...
> "Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Callaghan" <totally_fake@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying around so is this a good
>>> opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit provided in the gear and
>>> brake cable sets completely different?
>>
>> DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap
>> gear cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is
>> different.
>
> Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic sheath
> running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?

Yes. Don't swap gear outers for brake outers and vice-versa.

> If so, why?

Brake cable outers have a wound coil construction, similar to a close-wound
spring, and are designed to work solely in compression, with the relatively
high forces required to brake.

Gear cable outers have a longitudinal helical construction and are designed
to work as a push-pull system, but the construction won't stand the
compression forces that a brake cable does.

If you _really_ want to save money on cables buy the Ride-On Goretex cables
... they are absolutely the dogs nadgers and last forever, barring accidental
damage, with minimal maintenance.

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... ;)
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Callaghan wrote:
> "Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>> DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap
>> gear cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is
>> different.
>
> Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic sheath
> running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?
>
> If so, why?

I'm not familar with Ride On but it's true of all cables that are similar
to Shimano and Campagnolo in construction (I think most are). It's to do
with compression and strength. The lining is not relevant to this.

See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sis-cable.html

~PB

"Paul - xxx" <notcheckedever@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Callaghan composed the following ...
>> Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic
>> sheath running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?
>
> Yes. Don't swap gear outers for brake outers and vice-versa.

It's starting to sink in.

>> If so, why?
>
> Brake cable outers have a wound coil construction, similar to a
> close-wound spring, and are designed to work solely in compression,
> with the relatively high forces required to brake.
>
> Gear cable outers have a longitudinal helical construction and are
> designed to work as a push-pull system, but the construction won't
> stand the compression forces that a brake cable does.

Ah, I see the difference now. Thank you.

> If you _really_ want to save money on cables buy the Ride-On Goretex
> cables .. they are absolutely the dogs nadgers and last forever,
> barring accidental damage, with minimal maintenance.

They have sets on CRC for 30 quid which include brake and gear cables. Not
bad, really.

I'll have to have a think about it though. I hoped I could use the 2.50
Transfil weatherproof kit to build sets for much less.


Cheers.

--
Callaghan

Callaghan composed the following ...

> They have sets on CRC for 30 quid which include brake and gear cables. Not
> bad, really.

Yup.

> I'll have to have a think about it though. I hoped I could use the 2.50
> Transfil weatherproof kit to build sets for much less.

You probably can ... but use brake inners in brake outers and gear cable
inners in gear cable outers, though how truly 'weatherproof' they are would
be conjecture, IMHO

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... ;)
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

"Pete Biggs" <pwrinkledgrape{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:
> Callaghan wrote:
>> Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic sheath
>> running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?
>>
>> If so, why?
>
> I'm not familar with Ride On but it's true of all cables that are similar
> to Shimano and Campagnolo in construction (I think most are). It's to do
> with compression and strength. The lining is not relevant to this.
>
> See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sis-cable.html

Great link, Pete. Thanks. I gleaned a ton of info from the site.

--
Callaghan

in message <Xns95D1A1DA33096ssfusion71@216.196.109.145>, Callaghan
('totally_fake@mail.com') wrote:

> "Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Callaghan" <totally_fake@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a few spare PTFE gear inners lying around so is this a good
>>> opportunity to save a few bob or is the kit provided in the gear and
>>> brake cable sets completely different?
>>
>> DON'T swap brake cables for gear cables and especially DO NOT swap
>> gear cables for brake cables. The construction of the outers is
>> different.
>
> Is this true of the Ride On Goretex cables which have a plastic sheath
> running between inner and outer cable for the entire length?
>
> If so, why?

Yes. Conventional brake cables have an outer which is essentially a
single very tight spiral of square section wire. This is tried and
tested, sturdy, and reliable, but a bit too compressible for reliable
indexing of gears. Consequently modern gear cables have an outer made
of a number of wires each of which spirals much more loosely round the
inner. This is less compressible but if you put too much strain on it
(as you could if you used it as a brake cable) the inner could burst
through the outer.

There's a German aftermarket cabling system where the outers consist of
jointed metal cylinders - sorry, can't recall the name now. A friend
has just fitted it to his new bike and it's definitely interesting -
less compressible than either conventional type, and more flexible.
I'll be interested to see how he gets on with it.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; my other religion is Emacs

"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:8c5la2-nk3.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> There's a German aftermarket cabling system where the outers consist of
> jointed metal cylinders - sorry, can't recall the name now. A friend
> has just fitted it to his new bike and it's definitely interesting -
> less compressible than either conventional type, and more flexible.
> I'll be interested to see how he gets on with it.
>

That's nokon cabling - <url: http://www.nokon.de/html/english/intro.html> -
wiggle do it. Supposedly 40% lighter and at least 100% more expensive.
But I must admit to being interested in it myself...

Rich

in message <41d7f6ad$0$51247$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Richard Goodman
('rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk') wrote:

> "Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:8c5la2-nk3.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
>> There's a German aftermarket cabling system where the outers consist
>> of jointed metal cylinders - sorry, can't recall the name now. A
>> friend has just fitted it to his new bike and it's definitely
>> interesting - less compressible than either conventional type, and
>> more flexible. I'll be interested to see how he gets on with it.
>
> That's nokon cabling - <url:
> http://www.nokon.de/html/english/intro.html> -
> wiggle do it. Supposedly 40% lighter and at least 100% more
> expensive. But I must admit to being interested in it myself...

That's the stuff. I'm most tempted to give it a try.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.

Callaghan wrote:
> "Pete Biggs" <pwrinkledgrape{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

>>See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sis-cable.html
>
>
> Great link, Pete. Thanks. I gleaned a ton of info from the site.

Dangerous place. People have gone in there and never come out.

--
Dave...

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the
future of the human race. - H. G. Wells

Response to Simon Brooke:
> > That's nokon cabling - <url:
> > http://www.nokon.de/html/english/intro.html> -
> > wiggle do it. Supposedly 40% lighter and at least 100% more
> > expensive. But I must admit to being interested in it myself...
>
> That's the stuff. I'm most tempted to give it a try.
>

I put it on my everyday bike when I last rebuilt it.


Pros:
With the Shimano STI version, brake'n'gear cables will both happily go
under bartape, leaving tidy handlebars.

Probably a bit lighter, though I am in no way a weight weenie. I've
heard it said that weight gain is to a degree a consequence of tighter
curves, thus shorter lengths - but I dunno; the weight gained would
be small in any case.

The outers will last for ever, or until your bike's nicked.

New! Shiny!


Pro/neutral:
Braking and gear-changing have both been problem-free so far, with not
very much maintenance and in occasionally nasty conditions. I wouldn't
go so far as to say that Nokon perform noticeably more crisply on the
road than normal outers.


Cons:
Price. (But as I say, they'll last.)

I bought mine from a mail-order guy who was (I think) just about the only
source in the UK at the time. He said: "Have you fitted these before?
No? Allow about three hours, then." I didn't believe him, but it ended
up being not far off; it's a fiddly job. And unless they've been
improved, the translated instructions are pants-->Hosen-->Trousers.


--
Mark, UK.
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.