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That's right - no mercy whatsoever.
It's either the bike or weight-training.
Can't mix both - if you're intent on being a roleur.
I have to go with BRF on this one - I can't see how weight training would help
in cycling terms.
But don't mind me - I'm just an old bollox.
Weight Training is valuable for cyclists. I know the Method, of course you don't do it 3x a week in the season. You drop from 3x to 1x as the mileage increases. You need power to go from 25mph in the peloton to 38mph. Where do think track sprinters and roadman sprinters get their power from, and it's not by doing 5 hrs a day at 23mph, because everybody does that.
As a matter of interest what did you weigh in at before you rode L'Etape?

Weight Training is valuable for cyclists. I know the Method, of course you don't do it 3x a week in the season. You drop from 3x to 1x as the mileage increases. You need power to go from 25mph in the peloton to 38mph. Where do think track sprinters and roadman sprinters get their power from, and it's not by doing 5 hrs a day at 23mph, because everybody does that.
As a matter of interest what did you weigh in at before you rode L'Etape?

The Etape weight was 14st 6 lbs.
Far too big for those climbs and it made those mountains harder.

12st 5 lbs was my competition weight - 6'1" is my height : way back when.
That was when I was younger and training very hard.

The Etape weight was 14st 6 lbs.
Far too big for those climbs and it made those mountains harder.

12st 5 lbs was my competition weight - 6'1" is my height : way back when.
That was when I was younger and training very hard.
Be Jasus, All d'ose Hail Marys worked. We've all been there. What the feck am I doing here, why do I do this thing? Then you tell yourself there's nobody else to blame when the world turns pink and your eyes can't focus because every drop of blood is needed elsewhere. I remember BRF asking you where you lost time, now I know, you lost it in Ireland, by not banging in the miles. Taking everything into account, that was a superb ride, and I raise my glass to you.
Right you lot, get one or two things right to start with. Lim was a very talented rider, who worked hard at the game, he used to beat up Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche. At 14st 6lbs he did it on 'Guts' alone. Rather large ones.

Zap - no mercy here from them... Thank God for Basketball season, that should be humbling for all you Hokies! Now, was it the Keydets? ;)

Fred - 5'11" 210 lbs.
Well here you are donut arse, when BRF rode L'Etape du Tour, You know he's pushing 60. He's 5-10 and weighed in at 160lbs, he is not of slight build either.
Gottit yet?. Work,work,work,work at it. He would never get into the feckin' state you are in if he never touched a bike again.

Be Jasus, All d'ose Hail Marys worked. We've all been there. What the feck am I doing here, why do I do this thing? Then you tell yourself there's nobody else to blame when the world turns pink and your eyes can't focus because every drop of blood is needed elsewhere. I remember BRF asking you where you lost time, now I know, you lost it in Ireland, by not banging in the miles. Taking everything into account, that was a superb ride, and I raise my glass to you.
Right you lot, get one or two things right to start with. Lim was a very talented rider, who worked hard at the game, he used to beat up Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche. At 14st 6lbs he did it on 'Guts' alone. Rather large ones.

Yes, that very thought struck me - 9 hours in to the ride "what the fuck am I doing here, killing myself".
3,100 miles in before the Etape.
Still wasn't enough.

I don't know.
Your observations about the track though are interesting Fred.
The track men do need muscle and some do use weight training.
But I have never met anyone on the road who did any weight training.

St.Stephens Day (Boxing Day) I'll be going out for a spin with me old mate
Peter Crinnion - you ought to know that name.
We do this every year.
He was a great amateur here in the 1950's - went professional in the early
1960's.
His daughter is a good cyclist too.
Peter coached myself and Laurence Roche (younger brother of Stephen 1987
Roche).
Actually Laurence is cycling as an amateur back here now - doing well, as well.
Those Roches just had the talent.
I've got Stephens old Peugot bike in my garage.

Yes, that very thought struck me - 9 hours in to the ride "what the fuck am I doing here, killing myself".
3,100 miles in before the Etape.
Still wasn't enough.

I don't know.
Your observations about the track though are interesting Fred.
The track men do need muscle and some do use weight training.
But I have never met anyone on the road who did any weight training.

St.Stephens Day (Boxing Day) I'll be going out for a spin with me old mate
Peter Crinnion - you ought to know that name.
We do this every year.
He was a great amateur here in the 1950's - went professional in the early
1960's.
His daughter is a good cyclist too.
Peter coached myself and Laurence Roche (younger brother of Stephen 1987
Roche).
Actually Laurence is cycling as an amateur back here now - doing well, as well.
Those Roches just had the talent.
I've got Stephens old Peugot bike in my garage.
Well say hello from me and Charlie Callan, and if you see that Feckin' Pat McQuaid tell the thieving bastard he still owes me and Charlie a bottle of Pernod. What about the Maddens? and the Kimmages? I wish these Merkians spoke martian and fecked off altogether. Right so, mi man, back to the battle.

Well say hello from me and Charlie Callan, and if you see that Feckin' Pat McQuaid tell the thieving bastard he still owes me and Charlie a bottle of Pernod. What about the Maddens? and the Kimmages? I wish these Merkians spoke martian and fecked off altogether. Right so, mi man, back to the battle.

I know Paul Kimmage well - competed against him.
Very good cyclist - very tough, just like his father, Christy.
He's a journalist now.
In 1998 - he was writing for the Irish Independent newspaper.
I called in to see him and I said "Paul, with the TDF starting in a couple of weeks, why not do an article about Shay Elliot - after all his name gets no coverage these days ?".
Kimmage writes the article on 25th June 1998 - two weeks before the TDF kicks off in Dublin.
I'm sitting in work - get a call from reception - a package waiting for me there.
What was it ?
A bottle of champagne from Paul Kimmage.
He got a freelance contract with the Sunset Times - they highlighted the article he wrote about Elliot.
I phoned him to say "you bastard, you used to piss on me in races - and here's you, getting a freelance contract with the Sunset Times, off my idea as well !".
He's a good bloke though - very earnest.

Pat McQuaid - he was my PE teacher in school.
Nice bloke but he's a waffler.
McQuaids are a big cycling family here in the Republic : Oliver, Pat etc.
He might be out on 26th Dec - if I see him I will most certainly pass on your message.

Your observations about the track though are interesting Fred.
The track men do need muscle and some do use weight training.
But I have never met anyone on the road who did any weight training.

Believe me it's lethal, I'll give you an example. Racing packed me in with a back injury, but when I came back to England some years later, I still went out on the bike doing a bit, but I kept up on the weights. It was probably mid November that a few of us decided to do a bit for the weekend in the Yorkshire Dales. I shan't mention the names for fear of embarrasing them, except that one of them had rode for Gan-Mercier that season, and the other was a Pro rider in England. As darkness descends on narrow valley roads at an alarming rate at that time of year, and cars were running on headlights and not sight, I went to the front and stamped on, there were six of us altogether. Dave Gan came to the front and said effin hell pp what the fuck have you been takin', my legs are fallin'off. I told them to fo 'cos I want to live. Asked them to ride thru, they couldn't. Now that's power, and my days had gone. All down to the weights. When you need the power, you can switch it on. Bit like having a 3litre car it'll 50mph all day, put your foot down and it'll do 150mph. Always power in reserve for when you need it.

Believe me it's lethal, I'll give you an example. Racing packed me in with a back injury, but when I came back to England some years later, I still went out on the bike doing a bit, but I kept up on the weights. It was probably mid November that a few of us decided to do a bit for the weekend in the Yorkshire Dales. I shan't mention the names for fear of embarrasing them, except that one of them had rode for Gan-Mercier that season, and the other was a Pro rider in England. As darkness descends on narrow valley roads at an alarming rate at that time of year, and cars were running on headlights and not sight, I went to the front and stamped on, there were six of us altogether. Dave Gan came to the front and said effin hell pp what the fuck have you been takin', my legs are fallin'off. I told them to fo 'cos I want to live. Asked them to ride thru, they couldn't. Now that's power, and my days had gone. All down to the weights. When you need the power, you can switch it on. Bit like having a 3litre car it'll 50mph all day, put your foot down and it'll do 150mph. Always power in reserve for when you need it.
why did'nt you tell us dumbfounded critics that the others icluding 2 pro's had drunk 10 pints of tetleys, were knacked and you had had 2 glasses of water.. in winter, its the time to cool down after a heavy pro season, the no hopers all come out between oct/jan, then the real men start to ride and the winter wonder boys go back to the pub and wait for thier next season, ie oct/jan bon courage.

Makes one feel humble, doesn't it.

Is there a place on this forum for ordinary people who used to ride and race for pleasure?


ne mangez pas la neige jaune

why did'nt you tell us dumbfounded critics that the others icluding 2 pro's had drunk 10 pints of tetleys, were knacked and you had had 2 glasses of water.. in winter, its the time to cool down after a heavy pro season, the no hopers all come out between oct/jan, then the real men start to ride and the winter wonder boys go back to the pub and wait for thier next season, ie oct/jan bon courage.
Of course, BRF is right again, he knows that I am life member of the Temperance Society. What he doesn't know is that I haven't paid my subs for the last 48 years. Yes I had two pints of water in the Pub at Ribblehead viaduct, it was a funny colour, and had froth on it, Still it tasted OK. Then we had a few more, and Ian Greenhalgh fell madly in love with the ugly barmaid. We had a great night in the Black Bull at Reith, where we always stayed. Next day, bright eyed and bushy tailed ( surely Bleary. Ed.) We went over the dreaded 'Buttertubs' again this time from the hard side. We had previously called a truce, due to the fact that we all had the wrong bottom gears for this bastard of a climb. The words 'No swishing' were the orders to anyone who dared to go a quarter of a wheel up. Then it was back down to the Pub in Ribblehead. Last one to the bar got the first round in. Greenhalgh decided he wasn't in love with the ugly barmaid after all, and he's never heard the last of it. Nothing of note happened on the 60 mile run back home except a lot of laughter and leg pulling. We'd probably done over 200 miles altogether, and had a lot of fun. We had plenty of that stuff over many years. You can't beat it.

[QUOTE=John Knees]Makes one feel humble, doesn't it.

Is there a place on this forum for ordinary people who used to ride and race for pleasure?

well of course there is, what we men do not like is the loafers/dodgers/fiddlers, who buy a halfords super sport racing bicykle and after 3 months start telling us bloke how it should be done.. we are thin on the groung ,us old club run merchants, how many of todays poncers know what a corned beef sandwiche tastes like in tommys cafe after 100 miles in the rain, knowing you still have 20 miles home.. they put up stupid messages and WE shit on them from a great hight... i note your messages, you are one of the few.. keep it up, tell us your memories, we are a dying breed, as LRM says, our circumstances are totally different, BUT we are bike riders from the old school, when WE are gone,, cycling has passed onto shit house 5 minute wonders.. bon courage...ps the yellow snow is on the canigou but it has changed to white... if you have never seen this catalonia god its worth a visit...every time i look out of my window its there, for ever ...

Makes one feel humble, doesn't it.

Is there a place on this forum for ordinary people who used to ride and race for pleasure?
ne mangez pas la neige jaune
You're here aren't you. This site is for British and Irish Cyclists of all capabilities. No Clublife = No Riders. I've never distuingished between riders of differing ability, and neither have the others, we all started somewhere at the bottom as raggy arsed kids, and it's thanks to people like you that we were nurtured and encouraged (I use that term loosely).
A few months ago, a club rider named Jim Carson died in Manchester. He never raced at all, but was out every Sunday. He went to watch road races and time trials and the track meetings. Obviously he couldn't remember everybodys name. He was known and liked by all riders from Indies (old pro's and leaguers) to the newer stagieres, and all in between. Word got round quickly that Jims wheels were hung up forever, and the date and venue of the funeral service passed about. After the sad event I was told there were hundreds and hundreds at the church, in fact one person told me that there were more people at Jims parting than there was at the well respected and great man Bob Thom's service, and he was the England manager for years.
Which just goes to show that we still have infrastructure to succeed if only we could readjust it to modern day cicumstances. I have an idea how it can be done, BRF lives in France, Lim lives in Ireland, and I live in Surrey. I have spoken to various people in the large conurbations such as West Yorkshire (BRF) Manchester (mine) and Merseyside (mine) and they all have the same problem, and they all agree with my proposition. I would like to do something with Tony Bell on this, when he turns up.

ne mangez pas la neige jaune
Oh you naughty boy, You are referring to not getting pissed aren't. Indeed very cryptic. SHAMEN you, BTW have you got any of the juice? not the second hand stuff.

why did'nt you tell us dumbfounded critics that the others icluding 2 pro's had drunk 10 pints of tetleys, were knacked and you had had 2 glasses of water.. in winter, its the time to cool down after a heavy pro season, the no hopers all come out between oct/jan, then the real men start to ride and the winter wonder boys go back to the pub and wait for thier next season, ie oct/jan bon courage.
Don't talk daft, King Albert, Bernie, and Wes, et al. Nobody gives an inch. Do you remember Ken Nuttall? had a fight with Albert after a cut up sprint.
Charity? Charity, it's a girls name innit?

Don't talk daft, King Albert, Bernie, and Wes, et al. Nobody gives an inch. Do you remember Ken Nuttall? had a fight with Albert after a cut up sprint.
Charity? Charity, it's a girls name innit?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: did KN have a fight with albert, as you know i did, well not a fight, he and bernie burns got me in the changing room after the Ledson R R near leeds, i had just won the event with AH 2nd BB 3rd. they were really pist off, so they had me held up against the wall and threatened me that if i tried to"doo em " again,when it was their race they would knock me off... a few weeks later same race curcuit, same sprint, they had me, just after a left right over a small bridge 150 yards before the line,i found myself in the ditch, BB had switched me into the gravel/ditch, whilst AH won the event... AH shared the money with BB after ... now thats "MANS STUFF.".. bon courage.:cool: :cool: :cool:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: did KN have a fight with albert, as you know i did, well not a fight, he and bernie burns got me in the changing room after the Ledson R R near leeds, i had just won the event with AH 2nd BB 3rd. they were really pist off, so they had me held up against the wall and threatened me that if i tried to"doo em " again,when it was their race they would knock me off... a few weeks later same race curcuit, same sprint, they had me, just after a left right over a small bridge 150 yards before the line,i found myself in the ditch, BB had switched me into the gravel/ditch, whilst AH won the event... AH shared the money with BB after ... now thats "MANS STUFF.".. bon courage.:cool: :cool: :cool:
It was on Merkyside, and it was between Ken and Albert for the gallop, I think Albert knew Ken had the better of him, so he chopped him up and won. Ken caught him after the line flew at him, there was blood and snot everywhere, most of it Kens. I think Ken eventually went to OZ, and so did Charlie Booth.

just been reading one of the comics given to me by the former pete fryer road /criterium champion in the 80.s.. its from graham baxter travel, telling all you brits how bloody hard it is to make any money from the £100 he is stealing from you to get into the etape next year,, look at this, he has 700 places X £100 +£70,000 the entrance fee is usually 45 euro about £30 so 30x700 = 21,000, so thats 70k less 21 k =49k thats 49,000 POUNDS, i bet he has done a deal with the organisers and got a discount , but for the exercise, lets forget that. last year it cost me about £5 in postage, but as he says, he has to collate the entries, send them off, he recieves the confirmation, then receives the etape documents, he sends them of, he then receives the cirtificates and sends them off.. all in all, about 4x postings plus admistration. lets take cost, i bet he will spend about £10 per person on postage,, so 700x10 = £7000 -from £49,000 =£42,000...remember he has a fully equiped organisation behind him doing all year round tours to cycling events, so the logistics are not all that too big....but he is still left with £42,000 , however much you look into it, HE will make a bomb out of it....but wait, when i was half asleep last night, i had this sudden thought, its the last year 2005 that old JB is running the TDF and the Etape, he steps down after both... its VERY strange that he has given the tour operator a blank cheque to make money,, me thinks that old JB may just be onto a very nice BACK HANDER here,,,,, 2500 overseas riders, all through travel agents, how about lets say 10 euros a head.. oh look thats 25,000 euros, could be in someones back pocket!!!.. dream on ..just a thought..bon courage.

Figures...2dz santas arrested in a brawl over the weekend in Wales... :D
Certified Personal Trainer very funny Flintstone….:confused: Tony "the juiceman" Fitton? Unlike your hero, I am currently all natural. I experimented with Decca, Test and dBall cocktails, but after experiencing rapid heartbeat, uncontrollable fits of rage and the inability to fine clothes to fit me, I got off the juice and concentrated on "sculpting" I was 21...20 years ago. I’m not a big fan of Fitton’s…He had an opportunity to clean the sport up but chose to turn his back on testing…So, I’ve got to ask…isn’t taking steroids at your age a little risky?
BTW what is Go TTIT? Mean? Are you proud of your breasts or what?
Nice post Zap, most informative. The kids in Wales will now see dear old Santa with black eyes and a busted nose, it's more authentic that way. The Welsh from South Wales are of the best quality.
Tony used to weigh in at less than 14 stone (196lbs) when nothing was going on. Now you put things into perspective. You admit to trying this, that and the other, all which didn't work for you, but as you say 'you experimented'. I used to have a sweatshirt which was emblazoned. 'Dianobol, the breakfast of Champions'. Tony was really, at the time was a disciple of Deca Durabolin, he reckoned that Dianobol tabs would burn your gastric tract out, and he was right. The bit about he wasn't bothered about body sculptors is far from the truth, I just thought that it might pull in the Narcissists for ridicule. Tony and all the others cared very much about diet, which is proven by how many pages are devoted to it Muscle Mags. Read any cycling mags, you won't find anything of much use.
He only got the job in America because you wanted him !
Shall I put it this way? If my son of 18 was an athlete of some sort, I wouldn't hesitate to put him in the custody of Tony. It was the footballers who wanted more.
I had a 44ins chest before I ever met Tony, and have still only got little titties. Gorrit?

Yeah yeah...
5'11" 229lbs
Another QB.... Feckin' Hell...