How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

Yep, Im going to call bullshit on this one. 400 meters is more than 1200 feet, and you couldnt see anything without magnification at that range, which is almost a quarter mile. Even I cant hit IDPA targets, which are 6" much past 30 yards, and Ive been around and shooting for quite a while.

I am a competition shooter, and I know for a fact that what youre saying cant be done. And anyway, youre talking about Olympic shooters, and they are far and away the exception in marksmanship.

So, are you actually going to make a point today?You really made a fool of yourself there,didn't you?
What distance is a "palma" match competition fired over (with open sights,ie,no magnification)?

Then why not ban knives too? And you just said in your last postTo some degree they already have been. In most states you can go to jail for carrying a knife over 4" in length. The exceptions being outdoor activities such as hunting and hiking, and transporting the knife from your home to the location of those activities. The simple fact is that while a knife is a tool, there's no reason to carry a large one around a city aside from the intent to kill. The same is true for carrying firearms. If you're carrying a gun around with you at all times, you are carrying it with the intention of killing another human being. Protection is a circumstancial exuse. Your sole motivation for having that gun is to give yourself the capability to kill. Cars may kill people, but they also provide transportation. Alcohol may kill people, but in moderate ammounts has been shown to prevent hear disease. With the exception of cigarettes, every item on your list has a societal benefit attached to it. Guns do not.

i feel like we are going round in circles,

then why give them out at all, if giving them to no one stops the idiots from killing people, where is the problem?

just ban thier use altogether.
Because banning them does nothing to prevent their use. Criminals dont care about the law, thats why they are criminals. If they want one bad enough, they will get it, end of story. Surely you must see and realize this.

To some degree they already have been. In most states you can go to jail for carrying a knife over 4" in length. The exceptions being outdoor activities such as hunting and hiking, and transporting the knife from your home to the location of those activities. The simple fact is that while a knife is a tool, there's no reason to carry a large one around a city aside from the intent to kill. The same is true for carrying firearms. If you're carrying a gun around with you at all times, you are carrying it with the intention of killing another human being. Protection is a circumstancial exuse. Your sole motivation for having that gun is to give yourself the capability to kill. Cars may kill people, but they also provide transportation. Alcohol may kill people, but in moderate ammounts has been shown to prevent hear disease. With the exception of cigarettes, every item on your list has a societal benefit attached to it. Guns do not.
Guns are used for hunting and many other activities, such as shooting sports. And alcohol doesnt prevent heart disease, the enzymes in red wine do, same as grapes. Might want to research that one a little bit before you talk. Alcohol also kills off brain and liver cells.

I can kill someone with my bare hands, does that mean I shouldnt carry my hands around too?:rolleyes:

Guns are used for hunting and many other activities, such as shooting sports. I understand that, but if you're carrying a handgun in a metropolitan area what exactly are you planning on hunting?

Especially the ones who can't hit a 150mm target at 30m.with a handgun or the ones who deny that is possible to shoot a feral pig at 400m.or even see it without magnification.Or the ones who need a high powered rifle and a telescopic sight to hit a human sized target at any distance over 50m.
That is what you said,yes? Anyone whose eyesight is that bad,whose markmanship is so poor and whose demonstrated lack of knowledge of firearms and their effects is so obvious shouldn't be anywhere near a gun.You sir, have demonstrated that you have a complete and utter lack of knowledge. 150mm is around 6 inches, or roughly the size of the hand from fingertip to palm. Youre telling me that you can focus on a set of sights and hit something from 150 plus feet away? You are either lying, or dont know what youre talking about. End of story. With 20/20 vision, the average person has difficulty making out detail of something that small beyond 100 feet.

Youre wrong, deal with it.

I understand that, but if you're carrying a handgun in a metropolitan area what exactly are you planning on hunting?
You just said guns have no social use. I said nothing about carrying them in a metropolitan area.

And alcohol doesnt prevent heart disease, the enzymes in red wine do, same as grapes. Might want to research that one a little bit before you talk. Alcohol also kills off brain and liver cells.
Perhaps you are the one who should check their facts. You have confused or misrepresented at least four facts in the first sentence.

1. Alcohol increases the concentration of high density lipoprotein cholesterol cholesterol (HDLc - the "good" cholesterol) in the plasma, and higher levels of HDLc are associated with lower incidence of atherosclerosis. The ability of alcohol to increase HDLc is not releated to the source of alcohol (wine, beer, spirits). Atherosclerosis is what leads to cardiovascular disease.

2. In addition, some wines have high quantities of flavonoids (not enzymes) that inhibit the glycoprotein IIb/IIIa receptor on platelets. Inhibition of Gp IIb/IIIa prevents platelets from clumping or adhearing to atheromatous plaque, which further reduces the risk of heart attack.

3. These flavonoids exist in the skin and seeds of the grape, which is why most red wines have higher concentrations of the flavinoids than most white wines. It is the way the wine is made, and not the color, that is important. Most red wines are made by pressing the grapes, then keeping everything (pulp, skin, seeds, stems, and juice) in the vat during fermentation. Most white wines are made by separating the grape juice from everything else, and fermenting only the juice. There are, however, some white wines, primarily those from Sardinia and Georgia (the country, not the US state), that are made from white grapes using the same process as that used for most red wines. These white wines have as high, or in some cases higher, concentrations of flavonoids as any red wine.

4. While it is true that grapes contain the flavonoids, the process of winemaking concentrates the flavoinoids. It takes about 4 liters of red grape juice to equal the flavonoid content of one glass of wine. Any benefit of the flavonoid would be offset by the weight gain from the excess calories if grapes or grape juice was used as the source of the flavonoids instead of wine.

5. While it is true that excessive alcohol intake does lead to brain and liver damage, it is also true that best survival rate is in people who have two drinks per day (again, whether it is two glasses of red wine, two bottles of beer, or two mixed drinks does not matter). Once one exceeds two drinks per day, the survival rate begins to worsen, but it does not become equal to those who do not drink at all until somewhere between four and six drinks per day. This is for all cause mortality (which is really where the focus should be). If one looks only at cardiovascular deaths, the risk continues to go down the more one drinks.

Yep, Im going to call bullshit on this one. 400 meters is more than 1200 feet, and you couldnt see anything without magnification at that range, which is almost a quarter mile. Even I cant hit IDPA targets, which are 6" much past 30 yards, and Ive been around and shooting for quite a while.

I am a competition shooter, and I know for a fact that what youre saying cant be done. And anyway, youre talking about Olympic shooters, and they are far and away the exception in marksmanship.

So, are you actually going to make a point today?
It was not only the British that were trained at thst distance, but other nationals. But the training was not to be accurate in the sense of bring the enemy down, but more in the sense of keeping the enemy in place. At that distance, a shooter would have to be a marksman even with a scope.
5o yds with a typical handgun used in murder here in the states would be a fantastic hit. The average murder in the states is actually committed with a .22. But this thread has really taken a vacation from the topic......
The US can be a violent place in certain areas. The elimination of guns would not solve this. Canada allows guns and it is not considered a violent country overall. So I doubt if it is the guns that cause the violence.

Perhaps you are the one who should check their facts. You have confused or misrepresented at least four facts in the first sentence.

1. Alcohol increases the concentration of high density lipoprotein cholesterol cholesterol (HDLc - the "good" cholesterol) in the plasma, and higher levels of HDLc are associated with lower incidence of atherosclerosis. The ability of alcohol to increase HDLc is not releated to the source of alcohol (wine, beer, spirits). Atherosclerosis is what leads to cardiovascular disease.

2. In addition, some wines have high quantities of flavonoids (not enzymes) that inhibit the glycoprotein IIb/IIIa receptor on platelets. Inhibition of Gp IIb/IIIa prevents platelets from clumping or adhearing to atheromatous plaque, which further reduces the risk of heart attack.

3. These flavonoids exist in the skin and seeds of the grape, which is why most red wines have higher concentrations of the flavinoids than most white wines. It is the way the wine is made, and not the color, that is important. Most red wines are made by pressing the grapes, then keeping everything (pulp, skin, seeds, stems, and juice) in the vat during fermentation. Most white wines are made by separating the grape juice from everything else, and fermenting only the juice. There are, however, some white wines, primarily those from Sardinia and Georgia (the country, not the US state), that are made from white grapes using the same process as that used for most red wines. These white wines have as high, or in some cases higher, concentrations of flavonoids as any red wine.

4. While it is true that grapes contain the flavonoids, the process of winemaking concentrates the flavoinoids. It takes about 4 liters of red grape juice to equal the flavonoid content of one glass of wine. Any benefit of the flavonoid would be offset by the weight gain from the excess calories if grapes or grape juice was used as the source of the flavonoids instead of wine.

5. While it is true that excessive alcohol intake does lead to brain and liver damage, it is also true that best survival rate is in people who have two drinks per day (again, whether it is two glasses of red wine, two bottles of beer, or two mixed drinks does not matter). Once one exceeds two drinks per day, the survival rate begins to worsen, but it does not become equal to those who do not drink at all until somewhere between four and six drinks per day. This is for all cause mortality (which is really where the focus should be). If one looks only at cardiovascular deaths, the risk continues to go down the more one drinks.


Grrr, flavenoids was what I was looking for in the first place but just couldnt remember.

Do you happen to have the study about the HDL and alcohol? I dont remember seeing anything recently that indicated that finding.

It was not only the British that were trained at thst distance, but other nationals. But the training was not to be accurate in the sense of bring the enemy down, but more in the sense of keeping the enemy in place. At that distance, a shooter would have to be a marksman even with a scope.
5o yds with a typical handgun used in murder here in the states would be a fantastic hit. The average murder in the states is actually committed with a .22. But this thread has really taken a vacation from the topic......
The US can be a violent place in certain areas. The elimination of guns would not solve this. Canada allows guns and it is not considered a violent country overall. So I doubt if it is the guns that cause the violence.
But steve is talking about being accurate, youre talking about holding at bay. There is a world of difference between the two.

You do know why it is the .22? Because it is the least powerful, and speaking in ballistics, the bullet tends to tumble rather than spin. Not enough penetration to cause an exit wound.

You sir, have demonstrated that you have a complete and utter lack of knowledge. 150mm is around 6 inches, or roughly the size of the hand from fingertip to palm. Youre telling me that you can focus on a set of sights and hit something from 150 plus feet away? You are either lying, or dont know what youre talking about. End of story. With 20/20 vision, the average person has difficulty making out detail of something that small beyond 100 feet.

Youre wrong, deal with it.The local rifle club holds regular competitions where they shoot at a bullseye of 150mm at a distance of 600 metres using for the most part,.303 Lee-Enfield Rifles of WWll vintage.
:D :D

You sir, have demonstrated that you have a complete and utter lack of knowledge. 150mm is around 6 inches, or roughly the size of the hand from fingertip to palm. Youre telling me that you can focus on a set of sights and hit something from 150 plus feet away? You are either lying, or dont know what youre talking about. End of story. With 20/20 vision, the average person has difficulty making out detail of something that small beyond 100 feet.

Youre wrong, deal with it.Anyone reading this is invited to do their own search.There are thousands of sites to back up what I say.
Here's a knowledge test- What distance are "palma" shooting competitions conducted over.What sort of sights are used?What sort of shooting competitions are held at the Stickledown range in England?What distances are they conducted over?
I've asked before but you don't have the guts to answer.
British (and other)soldiers were trained to fire aimed shots at the enemy at up to 500 yds.Aimed shots with the intention and ability to hit their targets.At 600 yds they switched to volley fire.They were not "holding actions".
The iron sights on a Lee-Enfield,from memory,are graduated to 1000 yards.Why?
The fact is that shooting competitions are regularly conducted at up to 1200 metres over open sights around the world.
If you insist that the shooters can't even see the target at that range then they should not be shooting at all.
If you have trouble hitting a 6" target at 30 yards with a pistol you should not have one.

Anyone reading this is invited to do their own search.There are thousands of sites to back up what I say.
Here's a knowledge test- What distance are "palma" shooting competitions conducted over.What sort of sights are used?What sort of shooting competitions are held at the Stickledown range in England?What distances are they conducted over?
I've asked before but you don't have the guts to answer.
British (and other)soldiers were trained to fire aimed shots at the enemy at up to 500 yds.Aimed shots with the intention and ability to hit their targets.At 600 yds they switched to volley fire.They were not "holding actions".
The iron sights on a Lee-Enfield,from memory,are graduated to 1000 yards.Why?
The fact is that shooting competitions are regularly conducted at up to 1200 metres over open sights around the world.
If you insist that the shooters can't even see the target at that range then they should not be shooting at all.
If you have trouble hitting a 6" target at 30 yards with a pistol you should not have one.
And Im the one grasping at straws? You do realize that 1000 yards is more than 1/2 mile, and physically impossible to see that far when focusing on a set of sights, right? You also seem to forget that, at 1000 yards, the rate of drop from the height of the muzzle is more than enough to make you miss your target, by a wide margin. Physics dictates this stuff, I dont.

And Im the one grasping at straws? You do realize that 1000 yards is more than 1/2 mile, and physically impossible to see that far when focusing on a set of sights, right? You also seem to forget that, at 1000 yards, the rate of drop from the height of the muzzle is more than enough to make you miss your target, by a wide margin. Physics dictates this stuff, I dont.Which is the reason that sights are adjustable for windage and elevation!!
If you insist that it is impossible...why do so many people do it?
Why won't you answer the simple question...What distances are "Palma" shooting competitions,with iron(unmagnified) sights conducted over?
How can the Hornsby rifle club conduct shooting competitions at 600metres using the same rifle that I used to own,firing at a 150mm bull-if it's impossible?
You must have really poor eyesight.
I won't selectively post links or misuse any statistics as the gun lobby does.I merely invite the reader to do their own search...There are more than 23 million hits for long range rifle shooting alone...
:D :D :D
God almighty...you don't understand even the basics of shooting a weapon...and you want the right to have guns and carry them on the street!

And Im the one grasping at straws? You do realize that 1000 yards is more than 1/2 mile, and physically impossible to see that far when focusing on a set of sights, right? You also seem to forget that, at 1000 yards, the rate of drop from the height of the muzzle is more than enough to make you miss your target, by a wide margin. Physics dictates this stuff, I dont.So what distance are "Palma" shooting competitions conducted over?
:D :D :D :D Why won't you answer?

Which is the reason that sights are adjustable for windage and elevation!!
If you insist that it is impossible...why do so many people do it?
Why won't you answer the simple question...What distances are "Palma" shooting competitions,with iron(unmagnified) sights conducted over?
How can the Hornsby rifle club conduct shooting competitions at 600metres using the same rifle that I used to own,firing at a 150mm bull-if it's impossible?
You must have really poor eyesight.
I won't selectively post links or misuse any statistics as the gun lobby does.I merely invite the reader to do their own search...There are more than 23 million hits for long range rifle shooting alone...
:D :D :D
God almighty...you don't understand even the basics of shooting a weapon...and you want the right to have guns and carry them on the street!You dont understand the basics of weapons, and you still dont know what youre talking about. I know what Im doing, as Ive probably shot tens of thousands more rounds than you ever have, and I am a better marksman than you are. But anyway, taken from the Palma USA sight:

The course of fire for each shooter in the Individual and Team Matches consists of two convertible sighting shots and fifteen shots for record at each range 800, 900 and 1000 yards, slow fire, prone position.

Also, they are using magnification, or else they couldnt see it that far away, also taken from the Palma USA website

c. Metallic sights shall be used and are defined as any sighting system constructed of metal or equivalent, which provides a method of aiming by aligning separate but visible sights or reference points, mounted on the rifle. There are no restrictions on the material of which the sights or inserts may be made, nor is there any restriction on the shape of the front sight insert. Lenses may be used in either the front or rear sight but not in both. The use of variable diopter sights shall comply with the rules of the host nation

Pay attention to the lenses part steve. Lenses are used for what? Magnification? Yep, thats what I thought.

But you realize that these people are extreme marksman, but yet you wont admit that fact. You also wont admit the fact that Ive called you on your lies, repeatedly, and you wont own up to it.

So what distance are "Palma" shooting competitions conducted over?
:D :D :D :D Why won't you answer?I answered you, proved you wrong as well, more than once.

Now, piss off.

Youre also wrong about the size of the target. Taken from another Palma website:

"In the United States the long range target that is used is called the LR target which has a 10 inch diameter X-ring, a 20 inch 10-ring, a 30 inch 9-ring, and a 44 inch 8-ring."

Also, anything at 1000, yards, also known as F-class, is using a scope:

"F-class shooting allow use of a scope and a rest to shoot."

Youre also wrong about the size of the target. Taken from another Palma website:

"In the United States the long range target that is used is called the LR target which has a 10 inch diameter X-ring, a 20 inch 10-ring, a 30 inch 9-ring, and a 44 inch 8-ring."

Also, anything at 1000, yards, also known as F-class, is using a scope:

"F-class shooting allow use of a scope and a rest to shoot."Please show me the post where I stated the size of the target used in "palma" style shooting.
I didn't.
:D :D :D