ABC News Item (Sydney)

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Some sort of study where various commuters wore fume monitors while travelling
to work.

Walking and cycling 1/2 the fume-intake of motorists...

Train travellers least...

Car occupants most...


Hmmm...

Dude wrote:
> Some sort of study where various commuters wore fume monitors while
> travelling to work.
> Walking and cycling 1/2 the fume-intake of motorists...
> Train travellers least...
> Car occupants most...
> Hmmm...



excellent!

there was something done recently in the UK, according to my C+ mags



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Although, I read somewhere a few years back, that cyclists and runners
absorb more lead because of the salt in their sweat. Not so much a problem
these days with lead no longer in fuel, but those of us who started
cycling years before unleaded and lead-replacement fuels were heard of in
Oz are probably as mad as hatters ;-)

dude wrote:
> Some sort of study where various commuters wore fume monitors while
travelling
> to work.
> Walking and cycling 1/2 the fume-intake of motorists...
> Train travellers least...
> Car occupants most...
> Hmmm...

"Steve Jay" <steve.jay@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:979ecddbafe0a97790a4d6485abd434a$1@www.izzythedog.com...
> Although, I read somewhere a few years back, that cyclists and runners
> absorb more lead because of the salt in their sweat. Not so much a problem
> these days with lead no longer in fuel, but those of us who started
> cycling years before unleaded and lead-replacement fuels were heard of in
> Oz are probably as mad as hatters ;-)

Why would you absorb more lead because of the salt in your sweat?

Marty

Marty Wallace wrote:

> Why would you absorb more lead because of the salt in your sweat?

Sweating open pores and exudes a salty liquid which takes up lead in the
air faster. ?

From what little I remember salt = NaCl = Na+ & Cl- to attack
lead-whatsit. body salts are more diverse with loats of other chenical
involved.

Steve Jay wrote:
> ...but those of us who started cycling years before unleaded and lead-
> replacement fuels were heard of in Oz are probably as mad as hatters ;-)



werent Hatters mad due to arsenic or something like that?



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flyingdutch wrote:
> werent Hatters mad due to arsenic or something like that?



Mercury compounds.

John Retchford



--

"flyingdutch" wrote:

> werent Hatters mad due to arsenic or something like that?

That was mercury. Interestingly, arsenic was taken in small
doses by mountaineers to improve endurance. I think they'd use
other substances these days.

John

"dude" wrote:

> Some sort of study where various commuters wore fume monitors
> while travelling to work.
>
> Walking and cycling 1/2 the fume-intake of motorists...
>
> Train travellers least...
>
> Car occupants most...

I wonder if these figures took into account the exercise-induced
increase in airflow through the lungs of cyclists. This could
make a hell of a difference..

John

: I wonder if these figures took into account the exercise-induced
: increase in airflow through the lungs of cyclists. This could
: make a hell of a difference..

I wondered that, too. I already consciously try not to work hard when I'm in
polluted areas (because I just don't know what else to do).

John Henderson wrote:

....snip....

> I wonder if these figures took into account the exercise-induced
> increase in airflow through the lungs of cyclists. This could
> make a hell of a difference..

Are car exhaust fumes more concentrated closer to the ground. If so, car
air conditioning would pick up more that a bicyclist higher up. that
might be one factor.

I think another factor for car drivers was internal fumes, e.g.
plastiscisers (sp) exuded from fittings during the day in the sun lit
car park. Then car driver enters their sealed world and breathes in this
concentration.
>
> John

--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

John Retchford wrote:
> flyingdutch wrote:
> > werent Hatters mad due to arsenic or something like that?
>
> Mercury compounds.
>
> John Retchford

What did hatters (milliners?) use mercury compounds for?

&roo

Andrew Swan wrote:

> What did hatters (milliners?) use mercury compounds for?

setting the felt.

Been attempting to track down the original article, the closest match, so far:

27/04/04 - from SHM Los Angeles sprawl risk for Sydney
<http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/26/1082831499675.html>

any better?



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"Terry Collins" <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:408E2A05.211B1B11@woa.com.au...
> Andrew Swan wrote:
>
> > What did hatters (milliners?) use mercury compounds for?
>
> setting the felt.

The chemicals used in hat-making included mercurous nitrate, used in curing
felt. Prolonged exposure to the mercury vapors caused mercury poisoning.
Victims developed severe and uncontrollable muscular tremors and twitching
limbs, called "hatter's shakes"; other symptoms included distorted vision
and confused speech. Advanced cases developed hallucinations and other
psychotic symptoms.
The popular top hat of the time were made from beaver fur, but cheaper ones
used furs such as rabbit instead. A complicated set of processes was needed
to turn the fur into a finished hat. With the cheaper sorts of fur, one step
was to brush a solution of mercurous nitrate on to the fur to roughen the
fibres and make them mat more easily, a process called carroting because it
made the fur turn orange. Beaver fur had natural serrated edges that made
this unnecessary, one reason why it was preferred, but the cost and scarcity
of beaver meant that other furs had to be used.

Whatever the source of the fur, the fibres were then shaved off the skin and
turned into felt; this was later immersed in a boiling acid solution to
thicken and harden it. The acid treatment decomposed the mercurous nitrate
to elemental mercury. Finishing processes included steaming the hat to shape
and ironing it. In all these steps, hatters working in poorly ventilated
workshops would breathe in mercury vapor.



From http://www.hgtech.com/Information/Mad%20Hatter.htm



Marty

Marty Wallace wrote:
> <snip>
> Whatever the source of the fur, the fibres were then shaved off the skin
> and turned into felt; this was later immersed in a boiling acid solution
> to thicken and harden it. The acid treatment decomposed the mercurous
> nitrate to elemental mercury. Finishing processes included steaming the
> hat to shape and ironing it. In all these steps, hatters working in
> poorly ventilated workshops would breathe in mercury vapor.
> From http://www.hgtech.com/Information/Mad%20Hatter.htmhttp://www.hgtec-
> h.com/Information/Mad%20Hatter.htm
> Marty




ecchhhh... hope a similar process didn't occur with early bicyclists
helmets. :confused:



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wassupdawg wrote:
> excellent! there was something done recently in the UK, according to
> my C+ mags



One for the medical types:

Fine particle (PM2.5) personal exposure levels in transport
microenvironments, London, UK. Sci Total Environ. 2001 Nov 12;279(1-3):29-
44. PMID: 11712603 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<http://tinyurl.com/3dwky>

or

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&l-
ist_uids=11712603>

"In order to investigate a specific area of short-term, non-
occupational, human exposure to fine particulate air pollution,
measurements of personal exposure to PM2.5 in transport
microenvironments were taken in two separate field studies in central
London, UK."

"...the cyclists had the lowest exposure levels, bus and car were
slightly higher, while mean exposure levels on the London Underground
rail system were 3-8 times higher than the surface transport modes."



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