Campy front derailleur won't shift

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Folks, I've got a really strange problem. I've got a Centaur front
derailleur that won't push the chain onto the big ring.

Forget the limit adjusting screw, forget adjusting the cable. Problem is
that with the limit screw completely counter-clockwise, and the cable
disconnected, I cannot physically move the derailleur (with my hand) far
enough. There's just not enough travel in the dang thing to move the cage
over the big ring. Which means either (a) the derailleur is mounted too far
in, or (b) the crankset is mounted too far out, or (c) maybe a little of
both.

Here are the pertinent details. First, the frame is a Calfee, with an
oversize seat tube. The derailleur is a Centaur braze-on type mounted with
one of those clamp-on adapter do-bobs.

Question #1: is anybody out there using a Centaur braze-on front derailleur
with an adapter thingy on a bike that has an oversize seat tube? I wonder
if this setup places the derailleur too close to the seat tube initially?

Next, the bottom bracket is the cheaper Centaur/Veloce type, English thread,
while the crankset is Chorus. Just eyeballing the bottom bracket, it looks
like bottom bracket extends out a bit farther than "normal", pushing the
crankset out just a bit farther.... which leads to....

Question #2: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if the axle length of a
Centaur/Veloce bottom bracket is longer than axle length of a Chorus bottom
bracket?

I'm also wondering if perhaps it's a combination of a bottom bracket that is
a bit wider than ususal, and the Centaur crankset is designed to make up for
this by moving the chainrings in a bit closer. By placing a Chorus crankset
on this bottom bracket, the chainrings have moved out a bit farther than
normal.

Question #3: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if a Chorus crankset and a
Centaur crankset would place the chainrings in the same position, given that
the bottom bracket is not changed?

I could spend yet MORE money to but a Chorus bottom bracket and buy a
genuine clamp-on front derailleur, but I've already spent enough on this
"project", and I'd really like to try and use what I've already paid for.

Thanks in advance,
Mike Lackey
Madison, AL

Mike Lackey wrote:
> Folks, I've got a really strange problem. I've got a Centaur front
> derailleur that won't push the chain onto the big ring.
>
> Forget the limit adjusting screw, forget adjusting the cable.
> Problem is that with the limit screw completely counter-clockwise,
> and the cable disconnected, I cannot physically move the derailleur
> (with my hand) far enough. There's just not enough travel in the
> dang thing to move the cage over the big ring. Which means either
> (a) the derailleur is mounted too far in, or (b) the crankset is
> mounted too far out, or (c) maybe a little of both.
>
> Here are the pertinent details. First, the frame is a Calfee, with an
> oversize seat tube. The derailleur is a Centaur braze-on type
> mounted with one of those clamp-on adapter do-bobs.
>
> Question #1: is anybody out there using a Centaur braze-on front
> derailleur with an adapter thingy on a bike that has an oversize seat
> tube? I wonder if this setup places the derailleur too close to the
> seat tube initially?

I don't know the adapter makes much difference but it's not the main
problem......

> Next, the bottom bracket is the cheaper Centaur/Veloce type, English
> thread, while the crankset is Chorus. Just eyeballing the bottom
> bracket, it looks like bottom bracket extends out a bit farther than
> "normal", pushing the crankset out just a bit farther.... which
> leads to....
>
> Question #2: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if the axle length
> of a Centaur/Veloce bottom bracket is longer than axle length of a
> Chorus bottom bracket?

Centaur/Veloce BB is 111 or 115.5mm (there are two versions; 111 is used
for both double & triple cranksets, 115.5 for triples with oversize seat
tubes). Chorus double is 102mm. Big difference!

> I'm also wondering if perhaps it's a combination of a bottom bracket
> that is a bit wider than ususal, and the Centaur crankset is designed
> to make up for this by moving the chainrings in a bit closer. By
> placing a Chorus crankset on this bottom bracket, the chainrings have
> moved out a bit farther than normal.
>
> Question #3: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if a Chorus crankset
> and a Centaur crankset would place the chainrings in the same
> position, given that the bottom bracket is not changed?

Centaur/Veloce/Mirage/Xenon crankset will place the rings further in on
your existing BB, at least if it's a "double" BB. I'm not sure about the
Chorus triple BB (I think that's 111mm but asymetrical; Centaur/Veloce is
symetrical; check www.campagnolo.com).

> I could spend yet MORE money to but a Chorus bottom bracket and buy a
> genuine clamp-on front derailleur, but I've already spent enough on
> this "project", and I'd really like to try and use what I've already
> paid for.

You bought a bad combination. You need a Chorus BB. Front derailleur
should be ok.

~PB

Mike Lackey wrote:

> Folks, I've got a really strange problem. I've got a Centaur front
> derailleur that won't push the chain onto the big ring.
>
> Forget the limit adjusting screw, forget adjusting the cable. Problem is
> that with the limit screw completely counter-clockwise, and the cable
> disconnected, I cannot physically move the derailleur (with my hand) far
> enough. There's just not enough travel in the dang thing to move the cage
> over the big ring. Which means either (a) the derailleur is mounted too far
> in, or (b) the crankset is mounted too far out, or (c) maybe a little of
> both.
>
> Here are the pertinent details. First, the frame is a Calfee, with an
> oversize seat tube. The derailleur is a Centaur braze-on type mounted with
> one of those clamp-on adapter do-bobs.
>
> Question #1: is anybody out there using a Centaur braze-on front derailleur
> with an adapter thingy on a bike that has an oversize seat tube? I wonder
> if this setup places the derailleur too close to the seat tube initially?
>
> Next, the bottom bracket is the cheaper Centaur/Veloce type, English thread,
> while the crankset is Chorus. Just eyeballing the bottom bracket, it looks
> like bottom bracket extends out a bit farther than "normal", pushing the
> crankset out just a bit farther.... which leads to....
>
> Question #2: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if the axle length of a
> Centaur/Veloce bottom bracket is longer than axle length of a Chorus bottom
> bracket?
>
> I'm also wondering if perhaps it's a combination of a bottom bracket that is
> a bit wider than ususal, and the Centaur crankset is designed to make up for
> this by moving the chainrings in a bit closer. By placing a Chorus crankset
> on this bottom bracket, the chainrings have moved out a bit farther than
> normal.
>
> Question #3: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if a Chorus crankset and a
> Centaur crankset would place the chainrings in the same position, given that
> the bottom bracket is not changed?
>
> I could spend yet MORE money to but a Chorus bottom bracket and buy a
> genuine clamp-on front derailleur, but I've already spent enough on this
> "project", and I'd really like to try and use what I've already paid for.

Look at your chainline. Your crank is out there!
Your ACH BB is 111 (or 115)mm wide, Chorus cranks want a 102.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:107k0s3bh3p91a8@corp.supernews.com...
> Mike Lackey wrote:
>
> > Folks, I've got a really strange problem. I've got a Centaur front
> > derailleur that won't push the chain onto the big ring.
> >
> > Forget the limit adjusting screw, forget adjusting the cable. Problem
is
> > that with the limit screw completely counter-clockwise, and the cable
> > disconnected, I cannot physically move the derailleur (with my hand) far
> > enough. There's just not enough travel in the dang thing to move the
cage
> > over the big ring. Which means either (a) the derailleur is mounted too
far
> > in, or (b) the crankset is mounted too far out, or (c) maybe a little of
> > both.
> >
> > Here are the pertinent details. First, the frame is a Calfee, with an
> > oversize seat tube. The derailleur is a Centaur braze-on type mounted
with
> > one of those clamp-on adapter do-bobs.
> >
> > Question #1: is anybody out there using a Centaur braze-on front
derailleur
> > with an adapter thingy on a bike that has an oversize seat tube? I
wonder
> > if this setup places the derailleur too close to the seat tube
initially?
> >
> > Next, the bottom bracket is the cheaper Centaur/Veloce type, English
thread,
> > while the crankset is Chorus. Just eyeballing the bottom bracket, it
looks
> > like bottom bracket extends out a bit farther than "normal", pushing the
> > crankset out just a bit farther.... which leads to....
> >
Yes, I have an older Carbonframes tetra custom that requires an italian
threaded bottom bracket. I use an older Edco Competition bb that has a 116mm
wide spindle with a Record 9 crankset 51x39 and C-Record ft der. Works
perfectly.

> > Question #2: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if the axle length of a
> > Centaur/Veloce bottom bracket is longer than axle length of a Chorus
bottom
> > bracket?
> >
> > I'm also wondering if perhaps it's a combination of a bottom bracket
that is
> > a bit wider than ususal, and the Centaur crankset is designed to make up
for
> > this by moving the chainrings in a bit closer. By placing a Chorus
crankset
> > on this bottom bracket, the chainrings have moved out a bit farther than
> > normal.
> >
For me, I use the wide 70x116 Edco bb because anything narrower will cause
my inner chainring to touch the chainstay.

> > Question #3: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if a Chorus crankset
and a
> > Centaur crankset would place the chainrings in the same position, given
that
> > the bottom bracket is not changed?
> >
> > I could spend yet MORE money to but a Chorus bottom bracket and buy a
> > genuine clamp-on front derailleur, but I've already spent enough on this
> > "project", and I'd really like to try and use what I've already paid
for.
>
> Look at your chainline. Your crank is out there!
> Your ACH BB is 111 (or 115)mm wide, Chorus cranks want a 102.
>
I agree, check the chainline. The crank on my bike is *out there*, but it
works.

Thanks to all who've replied. It's (painfully) obvious I've got a
mismatched crankset and bottom bracket.

Dangit!

Mike Lackey
Madision, AL


"Mike Lackey" <mr.blutarsky@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:Aujec.13861$wP1.31586@attbi_s54...
> Folks, I've got a really strange problem. I've got a Centaur front
> derailleur that won't push the chain onto the big ring.
>
> Forget the limit adjusting screw, forget adjusting the cable. Problem is
> that with the limit screw completely counter-clockwise, and the cable
> disconnected, I cannot physically move the derailleur (with my hand) far
> enough. There's just not enough travel in the dang thing to move the cage
> over the big ring. Which means either (a) the derailleur is mounted too
far
> in, or (b) the crankset is mounted too far out, or (c) maybe a little of
> both.
>
> Here are the pertinent details. First, the frame is a Calfee, with an
> oversize seat tube. The derailleur is a Centaur braze-on type mounted
with
> one of those clamp-on adapter do-bobs.
>
> Question #1: is anybody out there using a Centaur braze-on front
derailleur
> with an adapter thingy on a bike that has an oversize seat tube? I wonder
> if this setup places the derailleur too close to the seat tube initially?
>
> Next, the bottom bracket is the cheaper Centaur/Veloce type, English
thread,
> while the crankset is Chorus. Just eyeballing the bottom bracket, it
looks
> like bottom bracket extends out a bit farther than "normal", pushing the
> crankset out just a bit farther.... which leads to....
>
> Question #2: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if the axle length of a
> Centaur/Veloce bottom bracket is longer than axle length of a Chorus
bottom
> bracket?
>
> I'm also wondering if perhaps it's a combination of a bottom bracket that
is
> a bit wider than ususal, and the Centaur crankset is designed to make up
for
> this by moving the chainrings in a bit closer. By placing a Chorus
crankset
> on this bottom bracket, the chainrings have moved out a bit farther than
> normal.
>
> Question #3: Can any of you Campy gurus tell me if a Chorus crankset and
a
> Centaur crankset would place the chainrings in the same position, given
that
> the bottom bracket is not changed?
>
> I could spend yet MORE money to but a Chorus bottom bracket and buy a
> genuine clamp-on front derailleur, but I've already spent enough on this
> "project", and I'd really like to try and use what I've already paid for.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike Lackey
> Madison, AL
>
>
>