Torque wrenches

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I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms of maintainence. I'm
keen to start learning though and am beginning to collect together various
tools. I already have a fairly cheap Draper torque wrench with a range of
20-80Nm which should make it usable for crank arms (40-50Nm) although
apparently cheap torque wrenches go out of calibration quickly and are
inaccurate towards the ends of their range. Another problem with it is that
it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
for bottom brackets.

How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
for crank arms is pretty important.

Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?

I apologise if this is a basic question but as I say, I'm new the the
mechanics side of cycling and therefore lacking somewhat in the confidence
department.

Thanks for any thoughts,
With Kind Regards,
Paul.

Paul Davis <pjay.davis@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> Another problem with it is that
> it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
> for bottom brackets.

That's ok for Italian thread BBs.

> How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
> damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
> for crank arms is pretty important.

You're more likely to under-torque a crank bolt than over-torque it
without a torqge wrench.

> Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
> shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?

Why is that? Sears sells a beam type for around $20 that covers 0-75
ft-lb. That would be fine for crank arms and cassette locknuts.

http://tinyurl.com/2wz8l

Art Harris

So "Paul Davis" <pjay.davis@btopenworld.com> says:

>I apologise if this is a basic question but as I say, I'm new to the
>mechanics side of cycling and therefore lacking somewhat in the confidence
>department.
>

If you can accurately estimate how much weight you are lifting at any
given time you can learn to accurately apply torque. If you're a
chronic wimp or strongarm gorilla maybe a torque wrench is an idea but
most mechanics I know don't use one very often. Understanding what a
foot pound is and the dynamics of how threads engage is helpful.

jeffb

RE/
>How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
>damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
>for crank arms is pretty important.

I'd say it has something to do with the sensitivities of the worker.

I'm like Magilla The Gorilla without a torque wrench. In fact I bought one
after frying a number of fittings/screws. To me, the most needful are those
little alu screws/sleevs that hold the chainrings in place.

Now that I have a couple of them, I wouldn't tighten many bolts without one.

Others have probably worked day-in-and-day-out for years without ever needing
one.
--
PeteCresswell

In article <c4uv1m$hro$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Paul Davis says...
>
>Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
>shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?
>
Beam torque wrenches work just fine, do not go out of calibration,
measure both left and right handed torque and are cheap. When
used on cars sometime the nut or bolt is in a position that makes
it impossible to read the scale. Doesn't happen on bikes.

--
Ed

In article <c4uv1m$hro$1@titan.btinternet.com>,
pjay.davis@btopenworld.com says...
> I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms of maintainence. I'm
> keen to start learning though and am beginning to collect together various
> tools. I already have a fairly cheap Draper torque wrench with a range of
> 20-80Nm which should make it usable for crank arms (40-50Nm) although
> apparently cheap torque wrenches go out of calibration quickly and are
> inaccurate towards the ends of their range. Another problem with it is that
> it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
> for bottom brackets.
>
> How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
> damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
> for crank arms is pretty important.
>
> Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
> shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?
>
> I apologise if this is a basic question but as I say, I'm new the the
> mechanics side of cycling and therefore lacking somewhat in the confidence
> department.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts,
> With Kind Regards,
> Paul.
>
The experts at the LBS rarely if ever use a torque wrench because they
have calibrated hands. They know what torque to apply to each size and
type of fastener from years of experience. Myself, I don't have that
experience so I use a torque wrench on any critical fastener (especially
aluminium threads).

Bruce Graham

>"Paul Davis" pjay.davis@btopenworld.com Writes:


>I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms of maintainence. I'm
>keen to start learning though and am beginning to collect together various
>tools. I already have a fairly cheap Draper torque wrench with a range of
>20-80Nm which should make it usable for crank arms (40-50Nm) although
>apparently cheap torque wrenches go out of calibration quickly and are
>inaccurate towards the ends of their range. Another problem with it is that
>it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
>for bottom brackets.
>
>How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
>damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
>for crank arms is pretty important.
>
>Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
>shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?

There is nothing wrong with a beam type torque wrench as long as it has a pivot
in it's handle. Why has your local bike shop warned you off a beam wrench?
Any beam type torque wrench will work with either left or right hand threaded
fasteners and they don't need much in the way of recalibration..

However, my personal favorite type of torque wrench are the Snap On
Torqometers. These have a dial readout, 1% to 2% accuracy down to 20% of their
range. They can easily be recalibrated. They are expensive from Snap On but
you can find them new or nearly new on ebay for very good prices ($35 - $65).
A 0 to 600 inch pound wrench will cover many applications. And a 0 to 150 inch
pound wrench is great for those low torque applications like the newer Campy
Record hubs.

"Harris" <aharris@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote in message
news:kNDcc.454$Fo.13399@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
<snip>
> > Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local
bike
> > shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?
>
> Why is that? Sears sells a beam type for around $20 that covers 0-75
> ft-lb. That would be fine for crank arms and cassette locknuts.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2wz8l

I've rebuilt V8 engines with a Sears Craftsman's torque wrench and have used
it for many other things as well. They work just fine. All the engines
have outlasted the cars BTW (c:

C.Q.C.

Ed <Ed_member@newsguy.com> wrote in news:c4vlvq013t2@drn.newsguy.com:
>>Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
>>shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?
>>
> Beam torque wrenches work just fine, do not go out of calibration,
> measure both left and right handed torque and are cheap. When
> used on cars sometime the nut or bolt is in a position that makes
> it impossible to read the scale. Doesn't happen on bikes.

Beam torque wrenches are $20 at Sears. They are perhaps not as accurate as
the clicker type, but they are fine for bikes.

In article <c4uv1m$hro$1@titan.btinternet.com>, pjay.davis@btopenworld.com
says...
>
>
>I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms of maintainence. I'm
>keen to start learning though and am beginning to collect together various
>tools. I already have a fairly cheap Draper torque wrench with a range of
>20-80Nm which should make it usable for crank arms (40-50Nm) although
>apparently cheap torque wrenches go out of calibration quickly and are
>inaccurate towards the ends of their range. Another problem with it is that
>it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
>for bottom brackets.
>
>How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
>damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
>for crank arms is pretty important.
>
>Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
>shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?

Get a beam type wrench. They are inexpensive and don't go out of calibration
like the click type do.
-------------
Alex

>Ken no@spam.no Writes:

>Beam torque wrenches are $20 at Sears. They are perhaps not as accurate as
>the clicker type, but they are fine for bikes.

The "clicker type" torque wrenches go out of calibration easily. They are
seldom accurate unless recently calibrated because of spring pressure changes.
They operate by overcoming spring pressure in their mechanism. You should
always store your clicker type wrench set at the lowest torque setting. I
prefer either the beam type torque wrench which are simple to calibrate (just
center the needle) or the dial type torque wrenches (which have an internal
beam).

Hi,

I'm not certain why beam wrenches were frowned upon, they just were. I was
particularly asking about the Park beam wrenches.

As I've said, this is all new to me and I lack confidence so feel the need
to be sure I'm starting off on the right foot; I feel that a torque wrench
would help with this. I don't have a problem using a beam wrench but have
always tended to take the LBS's advice, I'd be more than happy to hear
other's views.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul:

I'll add my 2cents. The beam wrench is better than the clicker in 99%
of circumstances - 100% of circumstances when working on a bike. Why?
As mentioned before, calibration is easy. You bend the beam until it
reads 0 with no torque applied. It works on both left & right threads
also, which certainly helps. I would highly recommend you start with a
3/8" beam torque wrench. Craftsman is good, but I think you could do
just as well with a wrench from Parts Plus, Auto Zone, whatever. Also
get a 1/2" torque wrench if you have spare money. It'll come in handy
every once in awhile, especially if you work on your own bikes.

Here are the only advantages I see for clickers:

1) They work in places where you can't necessary see the display. For
example, working underneath your car inside the engine compartment.
Here you just set it and go until it clicks.
2) If you do a LOT of torque wrench work, it gets old looking at the
display. It's the same advantage for a different reason. You set the
torque and go. Example: changing tires at the end of winter.

I purchased a couple clickers at a "Cheap Tool Sale". I didn't know if
I could trust them so I've compared them a few times against my beams.
So far so good, and they cost me a grand total of $22 for both a 1/2"
and a 3/8" torque wrench. I still don't trust them as much (and I'm
sure their lifetime will be limited) but they make my life easier so I
just periodically do a comparison against the beam.

BTW, I use only the beam wrenches on my bikes.

MOO,
Matt


Paul Davis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm not certain why beam wrenches were frowned upon, they just were. I was
> particularly asking about the Park beam wrenches.
>
> As I've said, this is all new to me and I lack confidence so feel the need
> to be sure I'm starting off on the right foot; I feel that a torque wrench
> would help with this. I don't have a problem using a beam wrench but have
> always tended to take the LBS's advice, I'd be more than happy to hear
> other's views.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>

In article <c4uv1m$hro$1@titan.btinternet.com>,
"Paul Davis" <pjay.davis@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms of maintainence. I'm
> keen to start learning though and am beginning to collect together various
> tools. I already have a fairly cheap Draper torque wrench with a range of
> 20-80Nm which should make it usable for crank arms (40-50Nm) although
> apparently cheap torque wrenches go out of calibration quickly and are
> inaccurate towards the ends of their range. Another problem with it is that
> it will only measure torque on right hand threads which isn't very helpful
> for bottom brackets.
>
> How essential are torque wrenches for home maintainence and what sort of
> damage can one do without one? I understand that having the correct torque
> for crank arms is pretty important.
>
> Could anyone recommend a good torque wrench for a beginner (the local bike
> shop has warned me off of beam type torque wrenches)?
>
> I apologise if this is a basic question but as I say, I'm new the the
> mechanics side of cycling and therefore lacking somewhat in the confidence
> department.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts,
> With Kind Regards,
> Paul.
>
>

Go to Sheldon Brown¹s site:

http:/www.sheldonbrown.com/html

He used to have a great universal torque wrench scaled from

loosey goosey to stripped!...:)

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

jeffbonny wrote:
> So vecchio51@aol.com (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) says:
>
>> Bruce-<< The experts at the LBS rarely if ever use a torque wrench
>> because they
>>
>> have calibrated hands. They know what torque to apply to each size
>> and
>> type of fastener from years of experience. >><BR><BR>
>>
>> What absolute crappola...Is it in the morning or the afternoon after
>> their hands get tired? Is it before or after they eat.. Calibrated
>> hands-geeez
>>
>> Any decent wrench that doesn't use this easy to find and use $20
>> tool needs to put his ego away and do it right.
>>
>
> You're full of shit.

Hmmm. Who has more credibility here?

Bill "I vote for the Eye-tallion feller" S.

>From: "Paul Davis"

>As I've said, this is all new to me and I lack confidence so feel the need
>to be sure I'm starting off on the right foot; I feel that a torque wrench
>would help with this.

Sears' $20 torque wrench, accurate to within 4% (we live in an imperfect
world):

http://tinyurl.com/2wz8l

Not guessing but measuring is very confidence-inspiring IMHO. Got my larger
sockets for BB, cassette tools etc. at a pawn shop, surprising selection. --TP

So "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> says:

>> You're full of shit.
>
>Hmmm. Who has more credibility here?
>

My hands have rarely let me down. When I owned a shop I figured I
should get a spoke tension gauge so I did. I had been building wheels
for several years at that point including working at The Cove Bike
Shop and a run of several hundred for Kona and found that the gauge
was telling me what I already knew. Cindy Devine didn't have any
problems winning WC races and a rainbow jersey on bikes I wrenched
with no torque wrench and on wheels I built.

From an early age I studied the upright bass and was taught that your
breathing comes from your center and your center and hands connect in
an unbroken line of energy. I practiced for hours a day for years to
become aware of this and compared to the minute adjustments required
to get even a passable sound with the bow feeling torque is somewhat
less tenuous. I started racing and working on bikes when I was 13 so
playing the bass and riding and wrenching and skiing were always part
of the same thing for me.

I took exception to Peter C saying across the board that not using a
torque wrench is a matter of ego. For me it isn't ego and when I'm not
sure or I feel "unconnected" I'll pick up a torque wrench. That just
doesn't happen very often.
ok?

jeffb

jeffbonny wrote:
> So "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> says:
>
>>> You're full of shit.
>>
>> Hmmm. Who has more credibility here?
>>
>
> My hands have rarely let me down. When I owned a shop I figured I
> should get a spoke tension gauge so I did. I had been building wheels
> for several years at that point including working at The Cove Bike
> Shop and a run of several hundred for Kona and found that the gauge
> was telling me what I already knew. Cindy Devine didn't have any
> problems winning WC races and a rainbow jersey on bikes I wrenched
> with no torque wrench and on wheels I built.
>
> From an early age I studied the upright bass and was taught that your
> breathing comes from your center and your center and hands connect in
> an unbroken line of energy. I practiced for hours a day for years to
> become aware of this and compared to the minute adjustments required
> to get even a passable sound with the bow feeling torque is somewhat
> less tenuous. I started racing and working on bikes when I was 13 so
> playing the bass and riding and wrenching and skiing were always part
> of the same thing for me.
>
> I took exception to Peter C saying across the board that not using a
> torque wrench is a matter of ego. For me it isn't ego and when I'm not
> sure or I feel "unconnected" I'll pick up a torque wrench. That just
> doesn't happen very often.
> ok?

Then you could have said all that (pehaps in many fewer words :) without
resorting to profane insults.

Bill "I beg to differ not same as You're full of shit" S.

So "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> says:

>Then you could have said all that (pehaps in many fewer words :)

If you think I could convey what I did in fewer words please edit it.
Without a hint of sarcasm I would be grateful. Wordy maybe but I
didn't want my position unclear.

>without resorting to profane insults.

When you attack with broad and inaccurate statements you get what you
get. FWIW I mostly agree with the guy and "begging to differ" on this
one thing does not mean I think he's full of shit on everything. Far
from it.

jeffb

jeffbonny <jeffbonny@REMCAPSshaw.ca> wrote in message news:<o5l8709e3j3g4m02fbhbv60mug2nhiae9r@4ax.com>...
> So "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> says:
>
> >> You're full of shit.
> >
> >Hmmm. Who has more credibility here?
> >
>
> My hands have rarely let me down. When I owned a shop I figured I
> should get a spoke tension gauge so I did. I had been building wheels
> for several years at that point including working at The Cove Bike
> Shop and a run of several hundred for Kona and found that the gauge
> was telling me what I already knew. Cindy Devine didn't have any
> problems winning WC races and a rainbow jersey on bikes I wrenched
> with no torque wrench and on wheels I built.
>
> From an early age I studied the upright bass and was taught that your
> breathing comes from your center and your center and hands connect in
> an unbroken line of energy. I practiced for hours a day for years to
> become aware of this and compared to the minute adjustments required
> to get even a passable sound with the bow feeling torque is somewhat
> less tenuous. I started racing and working on bikes when I was 13 so
> playing the bass and riding and wrenching and skiing were always part
> of the same thing for me.
>
> I took exception to Peter C saying across the board that not using a
> torque wrench is a matter of ego. For me it isn't ego and when I'm not
> sure or I feel "unconnected" I'll pick up a torque wrench. That just
> doesn't happen very often.
> ok?
>
> jeffb


Dear Jeff,

You're full of shit.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel