Re: I'm having no luck at all...

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

"Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
news:106gp2sq5sv2qb2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c49gpd$2e6305$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Westie" <RideWestieRide@invalid.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:c47n2b$rmm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > > Merlin wrote:
> > > > "Westie" <RideWestieRide@invalid.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > >> If you were riding a tyre that had a split in it what did you
> > > >> expect? :-) --
> > > >> Westie
> > > >> (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > depends on the size of the split. my rear tire (Kenda POS) has a
3/4"
> > > > split that the tube pokes out with road pressure (little under max
> > > > for tire, about 50) but is alright with trail pressure (30, or so).
> > > > luckily I have a pair of POS no-name tires kicking around, though I
> > > > am thinking of checking the tires on an ancient dead bike of mine to
> > > > see if the tires are the same size, and crack-free. the tires would
> > > > be piss-poor for trail as they have no tread, but great for road
use.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder, would it work to use a tube patch on the inside of a tire,
> > > > then use a heatgun to semi-vulcanize the patch to the tire?
> > > > just a passing thought...
> > >
> > > Patches don't stick very well to a tyre, AFAIR. The bottom line is
that
> a
> > > tube is gonna come out if it can and the more flexing and pressure
that
> is
> > > put on it (like incurred during trail riding versus road riding) is
only
> > > gonna make it more likely. Kinda like stuffing a too tight shirt into
> > your
> > > pants - fine while you're standing looking at it in the dressing
mirror
> > but
> > > the moment you walk outside your gut is gonna push through... ;-))
> > >
> > > BTW, as you probably know, patches and pieces of old tube or tyre
wall
> > over
> > > the inside of the split are a fairly common emergency
> just-to-get-me-home
> > > trailside repair. I've even used a couple of zip ties around the
> outside
> > of
> > > the entire rim and tyre once.
> >
> > I repaired a tyre that was perfect apart from a tear, caused by a broken
> > bottle. I used ordinary cross-weave cotton cloth, glue soaked, and
> laminated
> > it, criss-cross. I put a patch on the outside. That tyre an perfectly
> until
> > the tread went, about 3 years.
> >
>
> patch glue, or something else?
>
> my tear is small, so it would be nice to get a few more miles out of the
> tires.

I posted about this before, some time ago - I soaked strips of this cloth
('flat' cotton sheet is what I used) min vulcanising rubber solution and let
it dry. Then I put one strip at a time over the tear, same way you would
patch a tube. First strip with weave across the tear, next strip with weave
at 90 deg. to first and so on, 4 layers. I then used a large, non-feathered
tube patch on the outside of the tyre, over 1 small strip of cotton cloth.
Clamped the lot in a bench vice and left for an hour or so.

I thoroughly sanded the tyre surfaces before applying any material, the
smooth surface and any residual mould release would have made my efforts
worthless otherwise.

The tear itself was about 4 or 5 cm long, sidewall was fairly thin.

Basically, all I did, was to 'look' in my mind's eye at the construction of
a tyre, and apply that to the repair. Couldn't be more simple.

HTH, Trav.




Shaun aRe

"Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4bbtm$2gn6g7$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
> news:106gp2sq5sv2qb2@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c49gpd$2e6305$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Westie" <RideWestieRide@invalid.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > news:c47n2b$rmm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > > > Merlin wrote:
> > > > > "Westie" <RideWestieRide@invalid.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > > >> If you were riding a tyre that had a split in it what did you
> > > > >> expect? :-) --
> > > > >> Westie
> > > > >> (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > depends on the size of the split. my rear tire (Kenda POS) has a
> 3/4"
> > > > > split that the tube pokes out with road pressure (little under max
> > > > > for tire, about 50) but is alright with trail pressure (30, or
so).
> > > > > luckily I have a pair of POS no-name tires kicking around, though
I
> > > > > am thinking of checking the tires on an ancient dead bike of mine
to
> > > > > see if the tires are the same size, and crack-free. the tires
would
> > > > > be piss-poor for trail as they have no tread, but great for road
> use.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder, would it work to use a tube patch on the inside of a
tire,
> > > > > then use a heatgun to semi-vulcanize the patch to the tire?
> > > > > just a passing thought...
> > > >
> > > > Patches don't stick very well to a tyre, AFAIR. The bottom line is
> that
> > a
> > > > tube is gonna come out if it can and the more flexing and pressure
> that
> > is
> > > > put on it (like incurred during trail riding versus road riding) is
> only
> > > > gonna make it more likely. Kinda like stuffing a too tight shirt
into
> > > your
> > > > pants - fine while you're standing looking at it in the dressing
> mirror
> > > but
> > > > the moment you walk outside your gut is gonna push through... ;-))
> > > >
> > > > BTW, as you probably know, patches and pieces of old tube or tyre
> wall
> > > over
> > > > the inside of the split are a fairly common emergency
> > just-to-get-me-home
> > > > trailside repair. I've even used a couple of zip ties around the
> > outside
> > > of
> > > > the entire rim and tyre once.
> > >
> > > I repaired a tyre that was perfect apart from a tear, caused by a
broken
> > > bottle. I used ordinary cross-weave cotton cloth, glue soaked, and
> > laminated
> > > it, criss-cross. I put a patch on the outside. That tyre an perfectly
> > until
> > > the tread went, about 3 years.
> > >
> >
> > patch glue, or something else?
> >
> > my tear is small, so it would be nice to get a few more miles out of the
> > tires.
>
> I posted about this before, some time ago - I soaked strips of this cloth
> ('flat' cotton sheet is what I used) min vulcanising rubber solution and
let
> it dry. Then I put one strip at a time over the tear, same way you would
> patch a tube. First strip with weave across the tear, next strip with
weave
> at 90 deg. to first and so on, 4 layers. I then used a large,
non-feathered
> tube patch on the outside of the tyre, over 1 small strip of cotton cloth.
> Clamped the lot in a bench vice and left for an hour or so.
>
> I thoroughly sanded the tyre surfaces before applying any material, the
> smooth surface and any residual mould release would have made my efforts
> worthless otherwise.
>
> The tear itself was about 4 or 5 cm long, sidewall was fairly thin.
>
> Basically, all I did, was to 'look' in my mind's eye at the construction
of
> a tyre, and apply that to the repair. Couldn't be more simple.
>
> HTH, Trav.
>

I take it then that your tear was on the sidewall then. mine is about a cm
in from the tread border. it is only about 2 - 3 cm long, and parallel to
the tire, so maybe I can get away with just the strips inside. I just have
to find some "vulcanising rubber solution". sounds like either rubber cement
or contact cement. the later is applied when dry, though would require
painting the inside of the tire around the patch too. not sure how flexible
contact cement is, but I think it is the same stuff used in glue patches
(same general markup AFAIK).

assuming contact cement is what we are talking about. did you do anything to
"contaminate" the glue surface after the application was complete so the
tube wouldn't stick? I was thinking a light sprinkle of baby-powder like I
normally use in the tires.

if we are thinking the same thing as far as glue, I should be able to figure
something out based on that.

~Travis

"Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
news:106j2cvl6p09q1f@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c4bbtm$2gn6g7$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...

> I take it then that your tear was on the sidewall then.

yes.

> mine is about a cm
> in from the tread border. it is only about 2 - 3 cm long, and parallel to
> the tire, so maybe I can get away with just the strips inside. I just have
> to find some "vulcanising rubber solution". sounds like either rubber
cement
> or contact cement. the later is applied when dry, though would require
> painting the inside of the tire around the patch too. not sure how
flexible
> contact cement is, but I think it is the same stuff used in glue patches
> (same general markup AFAIK).

Patch glue = vulcanising rubber solution, it's the same stuff, basically,
rubber dissolved in a solvent base.

> assuming contact cement is what we are talking about. did you do anything
to
> "contaminate" the glue surface after the application was complete so the
> tube wouldn't stick? I was thinking a light sprinkle of baby-powder like I
> normally use in the tires.

Of course I did, I covered it with another thin layer of glue, then rubber
chalk powder into that. Added more when it was dry, too. No problem with the
tube bonding to the tyre.

In your case, I'd be tempted to use some superglue in the split, from the
outside as well as the cloth/glue on the inside, to keep it together,
IYSWIM.

> if we are thinking the same thing as far as glue, I should be able to
figure
> something out based on that.

Rubber cement, the stuff you get with the patch kit. Use plenty on the cloth
and let it dry in, then use more when layering. Not as much trouble as it
may sound, especially when you consider how much cheaper it is than a new
tyre.



Shaun aRe

"Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4c44k$2fmtfd$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
> news:106j2cvl6p09q1f@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c4bbtm$2gn6g7$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > I take it then that your tear was on the sidewall then.
>
> yes.
>
> > mine is about a cm
> > in from the tread border. it is only about 2 - 3 cm long, and parallel
to
> > the tire, so maybe I can get away with just the strips inside. I just
have
> > to find some "vulcanising rubber solution". sounds like either rubber
> cement
> > or contact cement. the later is applied when dry, though would require
> > painting the inside of the tire around the patch too. not sure how
> flexible
> > contact cement is, but I think it is the same stuff used in glue patches
> > (same general markup AFAIK).
>
> Patch glue = vulcanising rubber solution, it's the same stuff, basically,
> rubber dissolved in a solvent base.
>
> > assuming contact cement is what we are talking about. did you do
anything
> to
> > "contaminate" the glue surface after the application was complete so the
> > tube wouldn't stick? I was thinking a light sprinkle of baby-powder like
I
> > normally use in the tires.
>
> Of course I did, I covered it with another thin layer of glue, then rubber
> chalk powder into that. Added more when it was dry, too. No problem with
the
> tube bonding to the tyre.
>
> In your case, I'd be tempted to use some superglue in the split, from the
> outside as well as the cloth/glue on the inside, to keep it together,
> IYSWIM.
>

I think I get the idea. bond the internal fibers in the tire for added
strength. then back it with material to support the "wound".

> > if we are thinking the same thing as far as glue, I should be able to
> figure
> > something out based on that.
>
> Rubber cement, the stuff you get with the patch kit. Use plenty on the
cloth
> and let it dry in, then use more when layering. Not as much trouble as it
> may sound, especially when you consider how much cheaper it is than a new
> tyre.
>

I see now. I may not be as swift as most, but the gears do eventually get
turning. ;-)
and I agree that it is cheaper than new tires. a tube of rubber cement can
be had for a tiny fraction of the cost of tires, and fabric is real easy to
come by.

Thanks

~Travis

"Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
news:106j86ujeshuu13@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c4c44k$2fmtfd$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Merlin" <travis.j.farmer@us.army.mil> wrote in message
> > news:106j2cvl6p09q1f@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > "Shaun Rimmer" <shaun@newtronic.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:c4bbtm$2gn6g7$1@ID-170198.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > > I take it then that your tear was on the sidewall then.
> >
> > yes.
> >
> > > mine is about a cm
> > > in from the tread border. it is only about 2 - 3 cm long, and parallel
> to
> > > the tire, so maybe I can get away with just the strips inside. I just
> have
> > > to find some "vulcanising rubber solution". sounds like either rubber
> > cement
> > > or contact cement. the later is applied when dry, though would require
> > > painting the inside of the tire around the patch too. not sure how
> > flexible
> > > contact cement is, but I think it is the same stuff used in glue
patches
> > > (same general markup AFAIK).
> >
> > Patch glue = vulcanising rubber solution, it's the same stuff,
basically,
> > rubber dissolved in a solvent base.
> >
> > > assuming contact cement is what we are talking about. did you do
> anything
> > to
> > > "contaminate" the glue surface after the application was complete so
the
> > > tube wouldn't stick? I was thinking a light sprinkle of baby-powder
like
> I
> > > normally use in the tires.
> >
> > Of course I did, I covered it with another thin layer of glue, then
rubber
> > chalk powder into that. Added more when it was dry, too. No problem with
> the
> > tube bonding to the tyre.
> >
> > In your case, I'd be tempted to use some superglue in the split, from
the
> > outside as well as the cloth/glue on the inside, to keep it together,
> > IYSWIM.
> >
>
> I think I get the idea. bond the internal fibers in the tire for added
> strength. then back it with material to support the "wound".

Superglue sticks clean rubber very well, and if you're not relying on it for
the main bond, the fact it might crack with flexing is less of a problem -
it's in a supporting role only, and helping to keep grit out.

> > > if we are thinking the same thing as far as glue, I should be able to
> > figure
> > > something out based on that.
> >
> > Rubber cement, the stuff you get with the patch kit. Use plenty on the
> cloth
> > and let it dry in, then use more when layering. Not as much trouble as
it
> > may sound, especially when you consider how much cheaper it is than a
new
> > tyre.
> >
>
> I see now. I may not be as swift as most, but the gears do eventually get
> turning. ;-)
> and I agree that it is cheaper than new tires. a tube of rubber cement can
> be had for a tiny fraction of the cost of tires, and fabric is real easy
to
> come by.
>
> Thanks

Yer welcome.


Shaun aRe - "I know 'some' stuff."