dizzy when riding

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I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice a
week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each trip.
For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and slightly
nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I have to stop
and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm going to get
really sick. After about 15 minutes of sitting down,
standing doesn't help, I get slowly better and then I seem
to do ok no matter how hard or how far I ride after that.
Usually I eat a banana or two for breakfast with water. I've
sometimes had a honey bun with coffee and I've been dizzy
with either type of breakfast. I come home and check my BP
and its about 125/75. I've had some high BP in the past but
never to a point the Dr. wanted to put me on meds. After I
began cycling 2 years ago the BP readings have been
consistently low. Could it be that while cycling my BP gets
too low? Or could it be getting too high during the ride,
when I can't check it? I've also been riding in the mornings
when its cooler. I live in Alabama and the summers are
awful. 95 degrees with 90 percent humidity. I ride in the
mornings when its about 75 degrees and about 80 percent
humidity. Could it be the high humidity? Other riders wtih
me, wife, brother in law, others do not experience the same
thing. I am 41 years old and slightly overweight, 205 lbs. 6
ft 2 inches tall. My ideal weight is about 185 - 190.

Any advice?

HYDRATE!!

"Dwayne" <dwcleck@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:f810802a.0407071939.754318ef@posting.google.com...
> I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice
> a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each
> trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and
> slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I
> have to stop and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm
> going to get really sick. After about 15 minutes of
> sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get slowly better
> and then I seem to do ok no matter how hard or how far I
> ride after that. Usually I eat a banana or two for
> breakfast with water. I've sometimes had a honey bun with
> coffee and I've been dizzy with either type of breakfast.
> I come home and check my BP and its about 125/75. I've had
> some high BP in the past but never to a point the Dr.
> wanted to put me on meds. After I began cycling 2 years
> ago the BP readings have been consistently low. Could it
> be that while cycling my BP gets too low? Or could it be
> getting too high during the ride, when I can't check it?
> I've also been riding in the mornings when its cooler. I
> live in Alabama and the summers are awful. 95 degrees with
> 90 percent humidity. I ride in the mornings when its about
> 75 degrees and about 80 percent humidity. Could it be the
> high humidity? Other riders wtih me, wife, brother in law,
> others do not experience the same thing. I am 41 years old
> and slightly overweight, 205 lbs. 6 ft 2 inches tall. My
> ideal weight is about 185 - 190.
>
> Any advice?

I would definitely get a heart rate monitor before your next
ride. See your regular doctor as soon as possible, perhaps
call and see if you can get a recording EKG hooked up and do
your riding to record the event.

Dwayne wrote:
>
> I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice
> a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each
> trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and
> slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I
> have to stop and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm
> going to get really sick. After about 15 minutes of
> sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get slowly better
> and then I seem to do ok no matter how hard or how far I
> ride after that. Usually I eat a banana or two for
> breakfast with water. I've sometimes had a honey bun with
> coffee and I've been dizzy with either type of breakfast.
> I come home and check my BP and its about 125/75. I've had
> some high BP in the past but never to a point the Dr.
> wanted to put me on meds. After I began cycling 2 years
> ago the BP readings have been consistently low. Could it
> be that while cycling my BP gets too low? Or could it be
> getting too high during the ride, when I can't check it?
> I've also been riding in the mornings when its cooler. I
> live in Alabama and the summers are awful. 95 degrees with
> 90 percent humidity. I ride in the mornings when its about
> 75 degrees and about 80 percent humidity. Could it be the
> high humidity? Other riders wtih me, wife, brother in law,
> others do not experience the same thing. I am 41 years old
> and slightly overweight, 205 lbs. 6 ft 2 inches tall. My
> ideal weight is about 185 - 190.
>
> Any advice?

Dwayne wrote:
> I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice
> a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each
> trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and
> slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I
> have to stop and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm
> going to get really sick. After about 15 minutes of
> sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get slowly better
> and then I seem to do ok no matter how hard or how far I
> ride after that.
{snip}

I agree with others to check with your doc; but also, are
you using a sports drink of any sort?

I recently discovered that Accelerade makes me nauseous as
hell -- and quickly! -- whereas Gatorade and others don't
bother me at all.

Bill "just a thought" S.

If you insist on continuing these rides before seeing a
doctor, I suggest you take along your blood pressure
checker, and possibly a thermometer. If you have access to a
blood sugar meter, I would take that as well. SOMETHING's
not right.

On 7 Jul 2004 20:39:30 -0700, dwcleck@bellsouth.net (Dwayne) wrote:

>I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice
>a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each
>trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and
>slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I
>have to stop and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm
>going to get really sick. After about 15 minutes of sitting
>down, standing doesn't help, I get slowly better and then I
>seem to do ok no matter how hard or how far I ride after
>that. Usually I eat a banana or two for breakfast with
>water. I've sometimes had a honey bun with coffee and I've
>been dizzy with either type of breakfast. I come home and
>check my BP and its about 125/75. I've had some high BP in
>the past but never to a point the Dr. wanted to put me on
>meds. After I began cycling 2 years ago the BP readings
>have been consistently low. Could it be that while cycling
>my BP gets too low? Or could it be getting too high during
>the ride, when I can't check it? I've also been riding in
>the mornings when its cooler. I live in Alabama and the
>summers are awful. 95 degrees with 90 percent humidity. I
>ride in the mornings when its about 75 degrees and about 80
>percent humidity. Could it be the high humidity? Other
>riders wtih me, wife, brother in law, others do not
>experience the same thing. I am 41 years old and slightly
>overweight, 205 lbs. 6 ft 2 inches tall. My ideal weight is
>about 185 - 190.
>
>Any advice?

Terry Morse reported on this on 6/7/04 to a similar post
concerning dizzy feeling after biking. Not sure if it's the
same thing, but FWIW: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&selm=tmorse-F32CE2.15153607062004%40news.covad.net

<snip> You're describing post-exercise hypotension, a well
known (but not well studied) symptom. When you stop
exercising, the heart rate quickly slows down. This reduces
the blood flow, and the blood pressure drops. Putting your
head between your knees should prevent fainting. There's an
article here that briefly explains what's going on:

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Pressurelink.htm

(scroll down to "Cardiovascular response following
exercise")

I supposed a "warm down" period would reduce the plummet in
blood pressure, but sometimes that's not possible. On a
group ride last year, one of the riders got to the top of a
long climb and began a gentle descent. He passed out, fell
and broke his femur. Not good.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
<snip>

-B

"S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message news:<8V3Hc.22002$ju5.13939@twister.socal.rr.com>...
> Dwayne wrote:
> > I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or
> > twice a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25
> > miles each trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really
> > dizzy and slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the
> > ride and I have to stop and sit down for a while or I
> > feel like I'm going to get really sick. After about 15
> > minutes of sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get
> > slowly better and then I seem to do ok no matter how
> > hard or how far I ride after that.
> {snip}
>
> I agree with others to check with your doc; but also, are
> you using a sports drink of any sort?
>
> I recently discovered that Accelerade makes me nauseous as
> hell -- and quickly! -- whereas Gatorade and others don't
> bother me at all.
>
> Bill "just a thought" S.

Yes, I have used a Powerade mix a couple of times, but got
dizzy with and without it. What's interesting is, in the
afternoons, if I go on a ride, I don't get dizzy.

Thanks

I agree with what the others have posted, so please listen
to them first. However, something else to consider, should
it not be blood pressure, hydration, your heart, etc. is if
you have any kind of anxiety/stress. I know that may sound
stupid, but I was experiencing something similar, which I
asked about on this board A LOT, and couldn't figure out
what was going on. It wasn't until I spent a 5 night
insomnia bender that I figured out that I had severe anxiety
and needed treatment for that. Once I got treatment for that
the panic attacks (which is what I was having on the bike,
because I'd bike really hard then subconciously panic
because I'd be worried I pushed myself, and thus my heart,
too hard) things got much better. I can now do just about
anything on the bike without having a panic attack. Recently
on the board I posted about seeing your heart rate high. But
the key thing is that I just posted about it. I didn't dwell
on it or anything, I was just curious. And that day I did
have a minor panic attack, but with therapy and medicine
I've learned to ride through those without getting light-
headed and almost passing out like I used to.

Anyway, something to consider if you run out of things to
check.

Preston

Dwayne wrote:
> "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:<8V3Hc.22002$ju5.13939@twister.socal.rr.com>...
>> Dwayne wrote:
>>> I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or
>>> twice a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25
>>> miles each trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really
>>> dizzy and slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the
>>> ride and I have to stop and sit down for a while or I
>>> feel like I'm going to get really sick. After about 15
>>> minutes of sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get
>>> slowly better and then I seem to do ok no matter how
>>> hard or how far I ride after that.
>> {snip}
>>
>> I agree with others to check with your doc; but also, are
>> you using a sports drink of any sort?
>>
>> I recently discovered that Accelerade makes me nauseous
>> as hell -- and quickly! -- whereas Gatorade and others
>> don't bother me at all.
>>
>> Bill "just a thought" S.
>
> Yes, I have used a Powerade mix a couple of times, but got
> dizzy with and without it. What's interesting is, in the
> afternoons, if I go on a ride, I don't get dizzy.

Then it definitely sounds like a blood-sugar issue to this
English major doc. Do you eat before these dizzy rides?

Bill "get thee to a physician, just for peace of mind if
nothing else" S.

S o r n i wrote:
> Dwayne wrote:
>> Yes, I have used a Powerade mix a couple of times, but
>> got dizzy with and without it. What's interesting is, in
>> the afternoons, if I go on a ride, I don't get dizzy.
>
> Then it definitely sounds like a blood-sugar issue

OR blood pressure, I should have added. Usually lower in the
AM (one would think?), so that another likely suspect.

Bill "give me 5 more minutes, and you'll be dead" S.

"S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:uidHc.23157$ju5.5263@twister.socal.rr.com...
> S o r n i wrote:
> > Dwayne wrote:
> >> Yes, I have used a Powerade mix a couple of times, but
> >> got dizzy with and without it. What's interesting is,
> >> in the afternoons, if I go on a ride, I don't get
> >> dizzy.
> >
> > Then it definitely sounds like a blood-sugar issue
>
> OR blood pressure, I should have added. Usually lower in
> the AM (one
would
> think?), so that another likely suspect.
>
> Bill "give me 5 more minutes, and you'll be dead" S.

Well it sounds to me like a de-hydration issue. Weakness,
headaches, dizziness, neasea are all symptoms of it. Are you
driking a lot while riding? I am not too familiar with the
imperial system for temperature but 95 sounds high. If you
are riding when it is really hot, you can be loosing 2-3
liters of water per hour (3-4 pintes)... if you are not
replacing that you can become de-hydrated.

It happened to me once, I got a heat stoke while riding,
almost fell off my bike.

Could of course be something else but you should really try
drinking more and see if the problem still happens.

In article <qSgHc.30699$_p5.291002@wagner.videotron.net>,
calendyr@videotron.ca says...

...

> Well it sounds to me like a de-hydration issue. Weakness,
> headaches, dizziness, neasea are all symptoms of it. Are
> you driking a lot while riding? I am not too familiar with
> the imperial system for temperature but 95 sounds high. If

It is: about 35 Celsius. To me, though, it doesn't sound
like dehydration, because if he stops to rest he feels
better for the rest of the ride.

...

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Dwayne,

What you've described is almost certainly due to
lowering blood pressure as you ride. The setting
that you have described and the symptoms that you
are experiencing make it sound like you are
experiencing vasodilation. That is, when your body
temperature reaches a certain point, your blood
vessels dilate. When this happens your blood
pressure drops, you can begin to feel dizzy, heart
rate increases and nausea is almost certain. You
may also feel that you are going pass out. Of
course you know that one of your body's ways of
cooling is to sweat. When humidity is high,
however, your sweat cannot evaporate and the
moisture will either stay on the surface of your
skin or not come out at all. This moisture acts
like a skin tight coat that only makes your body
temperature rise more. Again, this causes your
blood vessels to dilate. The best thing you can do
is to make sure that you can keep the sweat off of
you. Unfortunately it is difficult to carry a towel
while riding, so you might have to be creative, but
you do need to keep the sweat off of you. Most of
the time, if you can simply help your body to get
rid of the sweat, you will not vasodilate. Also,
try to keep your core temperature down, so make
sure that you are not just hydrating, but hydrating
with something that is cool. The other thing to
keep in mind is that when you sweat, you shed
sodium, which converts into valuable electrolytes.
Without these electrolytes you will get cramps
eventually. So it is best to hydrate with sips of
cool (not really cold) Gatorade or Powerade or
something that contains sodium. You will know for
certain if it is vasodilation if start to
experience the symptoms and quickly jump in a cold
shower. Within 2 or 3 seconds you will be over
every symptom, except the nausea which may take a
minute to wear off, taking in a small amount of
cool drink to lower your core temperature. I hope
that this helps.

- Muskie

Dwayne wrote:
> I've been cycling for the past 2 years about once or twice
> a week for about 2 hours at a time, around 25 miles each
> trip. For about the last 4 weeks I get really dizzy and
> slightly nauseated about 30 minutes into the ride and I
> have to stop and sit down for a while or I feel like I'm
> going to get really sick. After about 15 minutes of
> sitting down, standing doesn't help, I get slowly better
> and then I seem to do ok no matter how hard or how far I
> ride after that. Usually I eat a banana or two for
> breakfast with water. I've sometimes had a honey bun with
> coffee and I've been dizzy with either type of breakfast.
> I come home and check my BP and its about 125/75. I've had
> some high BP in the past but never to a point the Dr.
> wanted to put me on meds. After I began cycling 2 years
> ago the BP readings have been consistently low. Could it
> be that while cycling my BP gets too low? Or could it be
> getting too high during the ride, when I can't check it?
> I've also been riding in the mornings when its cooler. I
> live in Alabama and the summers are awful. 95 degrees with
> 90 percent humidity. I ride in the mornings when its about
> 75 degrees and about 80 percent humidity. Could it be the
> high humidity? Other riders wtih me, wife, brother in law,
> others do not experience the same thing. I am 41 years old
> and slightly overweight, 205 lbs. 6 ft 2 inches tall. My
> ideal weight is about 185 - 190.
>
> Any advice?

I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the real
cause is rather than guessing the most likely cause(s). It
is a lot better to be a medication taking bicyclist than an
expired one.

I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see in
his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking around
getting ready to explode.

Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95215314A78E6svenyahoocom@130.133.1.4>...
> I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the
> real cause is rather than guessing the most likely
> cause(s). It is a lot better to be a medication taking
> bicyclist than an expired one.
>
> I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
> things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see
> in his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking
> around getting ready to explode.

Wow, excellent advice from everyone. I really appreciate all
the tips. Only with a lot of options are you likely to find
the right one. It is true that when I ride, afterwards my BP
is very low. That could be the vasodilation thing. That
sounds very likely. Stress is also a big factor right now.
Also, not drinking something cool. My water is always hot.
Everyone I ride with down here in Alabama drinks frozen
water bottles and I don't. I will try the cooler water, some
Gatorade, and take it a little easier. When I make my
appoint with the doctor I will tell him my BP is dropping
very much after a ride and maybe even during and its making
me dizzy and see what he says. The only problem is, a lot of
doctors don't like the idea of riding a bike 30 miles at a
time. They think you should just walk regularly or
something. That is not enough. Thanks for all the good
advice and if anyone has more ideas, keep em coming.

On 9 Jul 2004 14:09:56 GMT, Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the real
>cause is rather than guessing the most likely cause(s). It
>is a lot better to be a medication taking bicyclist than an
>expired one.
>
>I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
>things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see
>in his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking
>around getting ready to explode.

Let me get this straight. Are you saying (duh) that _in_
every Man he sees there are about 15 health problems the
could go 'off' at anytime, or of every 15 men he sees, there
is one who has an obvious health risk, like maybe severe
undetected hypertension?

OK, re-reading, it must be the latter.

The question that I have to ask now, is -how- the hell he
can make this estimate? It sounds like someone using a
'Scare Tactic'.

There's no freakin' way this is a responsible statement for
the MD to be making, for one thing, and yeah, the average
american male with their propensity to smoke and drink and
never get a check up is pretty obvious, but to put it in
those terms is just ridiculous.

I've been in the medical profession for 35 years and I'm
telling you he pulled this statement out of the wrong end of
his stethoscope, and it is so totally amorphous and broad,
as to make no sense at all.

-B

On 9 Jul 2004 17:05:04 -0700, dwcleck@bellsouth.net (Dwayne) wrote:

>Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:<Xns95215314A78E6svenyahoocom@130.133.1.4>...
>> I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the
>> real cause is rather than guessing the most likely
>> cause(s). It is a lot better to be a medication taking
>> bicyclist than an expired one.
>>
>> I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
>> things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see
>> in his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking
>> around getting ready to explode.
>
>Wow, excellent advice from everyone. I really appreciate
>all the tips. Only with a lot of options are you likely to
>find the right one. It is true that when I ride,
>afterwards my BP is very low. That could be the
>vasodilation thing. That sounds very likely. Stress is
>also a big factor right now. Also, not drinking something
>cool. My water is always hot. Everyone I ride with down
>here in Alabama drinks frozen water bottles and I don't. I
>will try the cooler water, some Gatorade, and take it a
>little easier. When I make my appoint with the doctor I
>will tell him my BP is dropping very much after a ride and
>maybe even during and its making me dizzy and see what he
>says. The only problem is, a lot of doctors don't like the
>idea of riding a bike 30 miles at a time. They think you
>should just walk regularly or something. That is not
>enough. Thanks for all the good advice and if anyone has
>more ideas, keep em coming.

Dude, go to a sports medicine doc, and in addition, make
sure that he's treating the same kinds of clients, i.e.
athletes, bike riders, joggers and soforth and perhaps one
that is an athlete himself. If you walk in his office,
despite what his specialty is and there's an overweight
cigar smoking guy, walk back out the door.

The best way is to get a refereral from someone at the local
running shop, which is often a nexus for this kind of
information, or talk to some of the other runners or bikers
and find one with a successful experience.

Do NOT go to a GP, (although you might have to insist
through your PCP that you get a referral) and when you walk
in have a name and phone number of the guy you want to be
referred to. Don't take no for an answer, b/c the PCP loses
a fee everytime he does a referral.

Good luck! -B

"Badger_South" wrote:
(clip) Let me get this straight. Are you saying (duh) that
_in_ every Man he sees there are about 15 health
problems the could go 'off' at anytime, or of every
15 men he sees, there is one who has an obvious
health risk, like maybe severe undetected
hypertension? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ When I read it, I gave
it a totally different interpretation than either of
the above: For every man that he sees in the office,
he estimates there are 15 others with serious health
problems who are not coming in, and could be at
serious risk.

Below is the way I meant my note to be read. It was an
estimation of course, but we men aren't exactly known to
be running to the doctor at the rate of women. The sad
news is once we pass forty things go wrong and we men tend
to die off rather suddenly. Two of my friends went in for
a check up only for the doctors to have bp readings on
both of them of almost

visited my doctor for completely different problems I could
no longer ignore and I found out I am not 16 any more. In
the United States at least, I think the Doctor may be closer
to correct, than farther from it.

At any rate I do not have an informed opinion on whether it
is a true statement or not, I was just passing on what was
told to me.

> When I read it, I gave it a totally different
> interpretation than either of the above: For every man
> that he sees in the office, he estimates there are 15
> others with serious health problems who are not coming in,
> and could be at serious risk.

On 10 Jul 2004 07:43:20 GMT, Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Below is the way I meant my note to be read. It was an
>estimation of course, but we men aren't exactly known to be
>running to the doctor at the rate of women. The sad news is
>once we pass forty things go wrong and we men tend to die
>off rather suddenly. Two of my friends went in for a check
>up only for the doctors to have bp readings on both of them
>of almost

>visited my doctor for completely different problems I could
>no longer ignore and I found out I am not 16 any more. In
>the United States at least, I think the Doctor may be
>closer to correct, than farther from it.
>
>At any rate I do not have an informed opinion on whether it
>is a true statement or not, I was just passing on what was
>told to me.
>
>> When I read it, I gave it a totally different
>> interpretation than either of the above: For every man
>> that he sees in the office, he estimates there are 15
>> others with serious health problems who are not coming
>> in, and could be at serious risk.

And I'm saying that if you are active, have no obvious
risk, such as smoking, overweight, alcoholic, and soforth
that there's no reason to be this paranoid. Of course if
you walk down the street you'll see lots of examples of
couch potatoes walking out of bars, chain smoking. I'd say
90% of these guys are at significant risk. But without
doing a physical, guess what? I'd be pulling that
estimation out of my ass.

Certain risk factors might be predictable based on your
genetics - many black men have high blood pressure, and for
them, over 40, go get that checked. Otherwise, to quote that
kind of figure to any particular patient is a scare tactic,
and meaningless. You pretty much know your risk factors,
b/c you know how you're abusing your body. But among a sub
group, such as bikers who have been doing it for 10 years
and are lean and fit and active and don't overdo their
vices, would that be the case? My dad is 81, active all
his life, and has smoked a pack of unfiltered cigs a day
since he was 25, and still going strong - go figure. In my
case, go look at my pic at 50 and tell me what kind of
risk factors I have.

http://www.pbase.com/image/18847396/medium

So, IMO, for your doc to say that is meaningless,
irresponsible (for making you paranoid, if it did) and he
could have said 9 out of 10 or 1 out of 100 and both been
right, depending on demographic.

I'll tell you what's dangerous, though. Go into any hospital
to have a minor procedure and your chances of never coming
out again are quite high, due to nosocomial infection
(hospital antibiotic resistant bugs), surgical mistakes, and
other misadventures. So I could say doctors - stay the freak
away from them, b/c you could be misdiagnosed or they could
just have seen a patient with resistant strep and forgot to
wash his hands. Did your doc wash his hands before he left
your exam room? He didn't? OMG! ;-)

Go check out some sites that talk about 'what they don't
tell you about medical exams'. Do you know that the devices
they use for endoscopy and rectal exams can not be properly
sterilized? THat's right, the chances are good that the last
patient they scoped has left a little bit of blood or body
fluid inside the device and now it's inside you. There's no
known way to sterilize against prion infections (mad cow),
so if you have an operation, you might be innoculated with
CJD and not know it. What if you're having an appendectomy
and they nick an artery and you have to get blood? Or the
anesthesiologist gives you the wrong gas (happened to my dad
and they tried to cover it up - he actually went into
cardiac arrest b/c they gave him 5 times the dose needed by
mistake when he had a kidney stone removed). See, it works
both ways. ;-p

OK, sorry for the rant....

-B