gyming to improve power

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You imply that you know everything that can be done with weight training, so please elaborate.

A set of 40 reps in squat takes at least one minute (an estimate) to complete, cyclists use intervals of length of one minute and even less to improve their power, so it would make sense that this kind of set resembles more interval training than strength training.

Don't mind Ric.... He's convinced he's omniscient.

And not for the first time - check out this abomination:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=850

additionally, there was quite a bit of discussion in MSSE about the study itself in the following month(s).

Don't mind Ric.... He's convinced he's omniscient.

as others have mentioned on this board - as well as me - there is no benefit to endurance cycling performance with weight training in trained cyclists. if you're unable to accept what i've presented, then all you have to do is a Pub-Med search on the related areas. once you've have read the research you will likely come to the same conclusion as myself and others. that there's no benefit.

ric

I was just wondering if there are any bodybuilders on this forum who actively cycle rather than do the normal stationary bike cardio in the gym. I know this debate over weights and cycling will probably go on ad infinitum but what about the other controversies? Are people aware there is much debate as to whether bodybuilders who cycle or run will lose muscle or whether muscle loss doesn't take place through aerobics.
If there are bodybuilders who cycle on this forum maybe they could share how much cycling they do and how they rate their level. Do you find having added muscle to carry slows you down a lot, a little or not at all?

i have a question for the riders here who lift weights in the off season. do you find it more beneficial to do 2 leg exercises such as squats and step-ups? or should i just do the squats? should i do squats once a week, then step-ups 4 days later? i think 2 days a week of heavy lifting will be too much with base mile riding. (i recover slowly)
i am looking for maximum muscle growth.

i have a question for the riders here who lift weights in the off season. do you find it more beneficial to do 2 leg exercises such as squats and step-ups? or should i just do the squats? should i do squats once a week, then step-ups 4 days later? i think 2 days a week of heavy lifting will be too much with base mile riding. (i recover slowly)
i am looking for maximum muscle growth.
If you are doing a gym program, don't concentrate only on one bodypart. Do a full body 2/3/4 day split.

Look here for some programs

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html

If you are doing a gym program, don't concentrate only on one bodypart. Do a full body 2/3/4 day split.

Look here for some programs

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html
i am doing 4 upper body exercises, and since squats hit all the leg muscles, i thought maybe i didn't need to do anything else.

i am doing 4 upper body exercises, and since squats hit all the leg muscles, i thought maybe i didn't need to do anything else.I have a question!

what purpose does upper body strength have to play in cycling since the main muscle groups are glutes hamstrings quads and calf, would upper body surface area not just create a greater surface area to accumulate wind resistance thus increasing the workload?

steps are a great warm up.
steps > stationary bike 1000m > steps > 1000m > steps >1000m
Squat > stationary bike 1000m > squat > 1000m > squat >1000m
leg ext > ^ 1000m > leg ext > 1000m > leg ext >1000m
bicepe (hamstring curl ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
calf raises > ^ 1000m > C R > 1000m > C R >1000m

Give something like athat a try and see how you feel at the end of it opposed to weights sit about, weights sit about. with recovery walking from and to the bike and a sit at the end of completion of each.

just dont train to fail on weights have a sensible limit to stop at.

But remember to increase your protein intake.

unfortunately, the author at Pez has summed up the study incorrectly

ric

I don't have access to the actual article quoted as a reference, so all I have to go from is the abstract, but I'm a bit confused how the author at Pez has summed up the study incorrectly.

Here is the Pez author's summary:
After nine weeks, both groups improved their maximal power output and 1 h time trial performance a similar amount. However, the strength training group had a faster improvement after four weeks, and also had greater power output during a short sprint test.

Here is a quote from the abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11820327):
No significant group-by-training effects for the markers of endurance performance (TT and Wmax) were found after 9 weeks, although after 4 weeks, these markers had only increased (P < 0.05) in E
and the final sentence
It is concluded that replacing a portion of endurance training by explosive strength training prevents a decrease in STP without compromising gains in endurance performance of trained cyclists.

Where STP is defined as "short term performance" (unfortunately without being able to actually read the article I can't really say how that is exactly defined) and E is the Endurance group.

The basics of the article linked to and the summary of the study referenced seem to coincide fairly well to me. Maybe if you have access to the actual article you could more specifically point out where the summary (and aparently the abstract of the study as well) goes astray.

thanks

In my opinion, a cyclist is best doing power cleans and deadlifts (possibly stiff-legged) in conjuction with squats. Bent rows are also good. The upper body work should contribute towards overall fitness and aid pulling power (muscular endurance to withstand gripping and pulling the bars).
I don't know if I sperformance but combined with diet, rest, mental attitude e.t.c. it should all add together.
One thing I can't stress enough is you should warm up before doing squats and work up in a pyramid. I've been squatting for 18 years and at aged 40 my knees and hips are really feeling the effects of the excesses of my younger days. Virtually all the squatters I know who went heavy with me years ago are now out of action "poymanent." One guy I recall warning about starting his squat session with 200 lbs and no warm up and his knees are now screwed up.
ee the point of power training per se (doing heavy low rep squats for example). Also you don't want to gain too much muscle. For me, weights is more a question of balance and overall fitness and I see it the same way boxers view skipping or roadwork. It's not essential to cycling

i am doing 4 upper body exercises, and since squats hit all the leg muscles, i thought maybe i didn't need to do anything else.

P.S. No idea why whole letters and text have just been lost from that former post but my computer seems to be acting weird.


In my opinion, a cyclist is best doing power cleans and deadlifts (possibly stiff-legged) in conjuction with squats. Bent rows are also good. The upper body work should contribute towards overall fitness and aid pulling power (muscular endurance to withstand gripping and pulling the bars).
I don't know if I sperformance but combined with diet, rest, mental attitude e.t.c. it should all add together.
One thing I can't stress enough is you should warm up before doing squats and work up in a pyramid. I've been squatting for 18 years and at aged 40 my knees and hips are really feeling the effects of the excesses of my younger days. Virtually all the squatters I know who went heavy with me years ago are now out of action "poymanent." One guy I recall warning about starting his squat session with 200 lbs and no warm up and his knees are now screwed up.
ee the point of power training per se (doing heavy low rep squats for example). Also you don't want to gain too much muscle. For me, weights is more a question of balance and overall fitness and I see it the same way boxers view skipping or roadwork. It's not essential to cycling

additionally, there was quite a bit of discussion in MSSE about the study itself in the following month(s).

You mean the efficiency study? I saw that; interesting. What do you think? Super efficient professionals due to extreme adaption over the long term, or incorrectly calibrated equipment?

I certainly don't accept the response that Lucia et al gave that a VO2Max of 92 is physiologically impossible - that's been accurately tested a couple of times that I've heard of.

You mean the efficiency study? I saw that; interesting. What do you think? Super efficient professionals due to extreme adaption over the long term, or incorrectly calibrated equipment?

I certainly don't accept the response that Lucia et al gave that a VO2Max of 92 is physiologically impossible - that's been accurately tested a couple of times that I've heard of.
Brad McGee and Cadel Evans are in the 90s I believe.....

back to weight training.

what is the optimum range of reps(squats) for the best strength developement for long sprints? i know it is good to mix up the number of reps you do every couple weeks, but i am just looking for an idea of what i should be aiming for.
would 3 sets of 15-20 reps be about right? i don't have the best knees, so i think i should stay away from the real heavy weight for under 6 reps. not to mention i don't own enough plates for more than 325lbs :D

back to weight training.

what is the optimum range of reps(squats) for the best strength developement for long sprints? i know it is good to mix up the number of reps you do every couple weeks, but i am just looking for an idea of what i should be aiming for.
would 3 sets of 15-20 reps be about right? i don't have the best knees, so i think i should stay away from the real heavy weight for under 6 reps. not to mention i don't own enough plates for more than 325lbs :D
for strength gains, pyramid your sets. Eg.
stationary bike for 5-10 minutes, light stretch.
warmup-15-20 reps Olympic bar only
set 1-12
set 2-10
set 3-8
set 4-6

As reps go down, weight goes up. Diarise your weights/reps/level of difficulty in completing/soreness etc so you can track your results.

for strength gains, pyramid your sets. Eg.
stationary bike for 5-10 minutes, light stretch.
warmup-15-20 reps Olympic bar only
set 1-12
set 2-10
set 3-8
set 4-6

As reps go down, weight goes up. Diarise your weights/reps/level of difficulty in completing/soreness etc so you can track your results.
excellent, thanks.

how hard should each of these sets be? should i be very close to failure or just pushing hard?

excellent, thanks.

how hard should each of these sets be? should i be very close to failure or just pushing hard?


Not knowing your current strength level or how trained you are, it would be hard to say. The final set should be approaching failure, so make sure the safety bars are set at the right height for you.

To what extent do you all think cycling and squatting are compatible?
The thing that puzzles me is there are lots of people on this forum who seem to be attempting to squat hard and cycle hard at the same time.
Since I started cycling I continued to do squats but I soon came to understand there was no way I could continue squats in the way I used to. This is simply because leg muscles don't grow without ample rest. It's O.K. to do a few sets of hard squats in the gym but the snag is the next day may require 40 miles on the bike and this will basically negate the squat-work of the previous day. Plus, your legs will be tired on the cycling day and hamper cycling performance with recuperation levels also down.
The only conclusion I've come to so far is that I can still squat at about 65% of my former ability while simulataneously cycling hard. The only possible benefit I can get from this squatting is to prevent excessive muscle loss over the body but forget any idea of squatting anywhere near maximium performance or gaining any degree of significant muscle. Plus it seems pointless squatting more than once a week during intensive cycling training due to the huge amount of work the legs are getting already.
I still think squats are worth doing for cycle training but I also think there are definite limitations each way when you combine the two.




Not knowing your current strength level or how trained you are, it would be hard to say. The final set should be approaching failure, so make sure the safety bars are set at the right height for you.

To what extent do you all think cycling and squatting are compatible?
The thing that puzzles me is there are lots of people on this forum who seem to be attempting to squat hard and cycle hard at the same time.
Since I started cycling I continued to do squats but I soon came to understand there was no way I could continue squats in the way I used to. This is simply because leg muscles don't grow without ample rest. It's O.K. to do a few sets of hard squats in the gym but the snag is the next day may require 40 miles on the bike and this will basically negate the squat-work of the previous day. Plus, your legs will be tired on the cycling day and hamper cycling performance with recuperation levels also down.
The only conclusion I've come to so far is that I can still squat at about 65% of my former ability while simulataneously cycling hard. The only possible benefit I can get from this squatting is to prevent excessive muscle loss over the body but forget any idea of squatting anywhere near maximium performance or gaining any degree of significant muscle. Plus it seems pointless squatting more than once a week during intensive cycling training due to the huge amount of work the legs are getting already.
I still think squats are worth doing for cycle training but I also think there are definite limitations each way when you combine the two.
i am not doing weights on the legs right now. i am currently training for a race in early october. you are right, there is no way to squat and still train hard on the road.
when i start squats, the riding i will be doing will be low intensity and only 8hrs/week.
and i am not going to do squats to improve my "endurance" riding. i am looking to improve sprint power.

To what extent do you all think cycling and squatting are compatible?
The thing that puzzles me is there are lots of people on this forum who seem to be attempting to squat hard and cycle hard at the same time.
Since I started cycling I continued to do squats but I soon came to understand there was no way I could continue squats in the way I used to. This is simply because leg muscles don't grow without ample rest. It's O.K. to do a few sets of hard squats in the gym but the snag is the next day may require 40 miles on the bike and this will basically negate the squat-work of the previous day. Plus, your legs will be tired on the cycling day and hamper cycling performance with recuperation levels also down.
The only conclusion I've come to so far is that I can still squat at about 65% of my former ability while simulataneously cycling hard. The only possible benefit I can get from this squatting is to prevent excessive muscle loss over the body but forget any idea of squatting anywhere near maximium performance or gaining any degree of significant muscle. Plus it seems pointless squatting more than once a week during intensive cycling training due to the huge amount of work the legs are getting already.
I still think squats are worth doing for cycle training but I also think there are definite limitations each way when you combine the two.


Gym work = track sprinters only. If you are in the gym on a regular basis trying to build strength and size, you'll compromise your performance if you are a road cyclist.